Apparently the 14th Waffen SS was unique in that it was the sole branch of the Nazis that didn't do anything Nazi like, and never attacked the other Allies. Nope, just fought the communists.
How convenient.
Indeed
Indeed fellow intellectual, it is absolutely OBVIOUS that the Waffen SS weren't indoctrinated with nazi ideology, anyone with a tight bit of COMMON SENSE would say that
That Article is wild. In the Atrocities section, first this:
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And then boom, Dirlewanger.
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What the fuck
Not being directly charged and found guilty isn't the trump card they think it is. Most Nazis were never punished, many top brass went on to shape the west into what it is today.
Even top ones. I wrote other post today about massacre of Warsaw and man who ordered it, SS Obergruppenfuhrer Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski. Forces under his command were responsible for murdering 1,5 million people in Poland and USSR, and especially Poles wanted his blood after war for what he did in Warsaw. West refused his extradition, so Poles asked Stalin for help, and he intervened personally and west still refused. Zelewsky was never tried for the worst of his crimes and got basically a slap on the wrist compared to what he should.
West always defended nazis, even such absolute monster as this one. It is mindboggling how many less famous got away because of that.
honestly the USSR should have kept going after stopping to catch their breath. There were still nazis further west.
Not being directly charged and found guilty isn't the trump card they think it i
Also, military divisions don't have legal personhood so you can't file charges against them like you could a company. You file charges against the commanders and the men, or in the case of the SS you declare it to be a criminal organization in it entirety.
Meanwhile, I wonder what the same people who joined the 14th Waffen SS were doing 2 years earlier.
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That's the thing that also made the vote on deleting Yaroslav's page irrelevant (now they're debating in the edits if he was a fugitive). The entire organisation was considered criminal, ALL Nazis after the war were considered to be criminals, regardless of their personal involvement in atrocities or lack thereof. If you were in the Wehrmacht, you were a criminal. If you were in the Waffen-SS, you were a criminal. If you were in the SS, you were a criminal.
What defines a criminal is being tried for their crimes. It doesn't matter if Yaroslav or other 14th division nazis did not commit war crimes or they can't prove that, just being part of it (especially as he bragged about it on his blog in the 2010s) is enough to convict him.
I would like to see the AK veterans reaction when they are being called "bolsheviks" to justify SS massacres.
Yeah. Some of them would serve in the SS themselves if only Hitler didn't cathegorically forbade Himmler from recruiting Poles.
Aren't those the same guys that were supposedly betrayed by Zhukov? I recall Russian liberal press huffing and puffing about it
It was actually pretty huge organization grouping most Polish underground from ultranationalists to communists, but mainstream AK reflected mostly the ideas of prewar government, that is, Polish version of fascism.
You probably think of Warsaw Uprising. Galaxy brains set up their only major action at a time when entire Red Army just finished the biggest offensive in history of humanity and needed a lot of time to regroup and rearm. In the meantime nazis managed to fortify the city and also gathered significant forces to defend it, moreover, those forces were the worst butchers in entire nazi army, including RONA and Dirlewanger brigade, commanded by the SS Obergruppenfuhrer Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski, infamous for murdering at least 1,5 million people in Poland and USSR.
They also didn't even hide that the uprising is aimed against the Soviets, it was part of the Operation "Burza", where AK was supposed to be taking land where Germans leave retreating before the Red Army and turn it into independent Poland and then say "fuck you, get lost" to the advancing Soviets. I have no idea how anyone could even think of such nonsense (well, the London government could, they weren't famous for firm contact with reality, even Churchill of all people bashed them for being delusional fools). So i would say most of fault fall on the people like general Komorowski who ordered this.
Of course the massacre ensued, and rightoids blame Soviets. Though entire issue is not as uniformly managed as Katyn, there are some serious dissenting voices in mainstream. Hell, even general Anders, commander of Polish army in the west and himself a shady figure, said absolute truth about the uprising "It was aimed militarily against Germans, politically against Soviets and really against Poles".
That's exactly what I was referencing. Thank you for the historical context
Winston Church calling the Armiya Krayova delusional is a hilarious wake-up call.
I also find it incredibly hard to believe that anyone with a functioning brain would believe Ander's lie about the operation being anti-Nazi.
He called London Government delusional, not sure about AK. Its leadership certainly was though.
Anders didn't lied in this case he said the operation was militarily against Germans, which it was, combat was against Germans and in some places the operation was a success and when Red Army came, AK just stood down because there was an order not to engage them.
The really tragic and suicidal part was just Warsaw Uprising.
I understand that it was militarily against the Germans, but it seems like that wasn't the primary "spiritual" intent. You're right though.
Yeah, that was horrific. Its so sad that despite the guns on their side, the Nazis had the Warsaw fighters outnumbered and outgunned.
Finally got our page out on Yaroslav btw https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Hunka, we also go into how Canada whitewashed Nazis refugees after the war and Ivan Katchanovski's research into the unit's war crimes.
first i'm seeing of prolewiki, thats great, thanks sharing, and thanks for the efforts of you and your comrades organising it
We're getting closer to "nazis were good because they were anti communists"
Over the last few days I have come to the previously unfathomable conclusion the libs have apparently been there for a while now? Wtf?
They seem very comfortable with it, like it was a long settled debate
"Nazi indoctrination was absent within the division."
Because the recruits did not require it.
If the Ukrainian SS divisions did not receive Nazi indoctrination it was because they were already diehard fanatics, and the Germans didn't need to indoctrinate them. Same goes for the Baltics. They didn't need the additional motivation to get them to commit plenty of atrocities easily as heinous as the worst German SS divisions.
Himmler said that ordering the Ukraine SS to kill the Polish would not be an order, but giving permission.
Well, to be fair, we ALL know how sensitive the Nazis were when it comes to talking about upsetting topics in the workplace, and that includes unwanted political conversations. /s
Even IF they "just" "fought the communists," what did "fighting the communists" mean in practice if not the savage rape torture and murder of as many Slavic civilians forced to defend themselves as possible????
They updated it at least:
Political scientist John Alexander Armstrong wrote in 1963 that Nazi indoctrination was absent among the soldiers within the division.[16]
