Yeah Bernie visited the Sandanistas in Nicaragua and visited the USSR, and made constant derisive statements towards Democrats. Ocasio-Cortez has no such good background.
Both AOC and Bernie are failures and fundamentally cowards in the advancement of radical politics, I dumped bernie after he decided to campaign for the rapist known as Joe Biden, and I dumped AOC after she revealed herself to be completely captured opposition in response to the FTV push
It's over, these sucdems aren't going to give you shit, they're not even gonna fight to give you the crumbs off the master's table, the DNC has both of them under lock and key and there will never be an "advantageous period" where they feel it's "time to fight"
Also fuck that guy for reducing all left criticism of AOC to sexism, unserious hack
This is literally just a regurgitated form of the Berniebro argument libs have been making since 2015 and considering he's obviously making it in bad faith, he can shove that point up his ass
oh, no I didn't take random douchebags twitter take seriously, how will I ever expunged this grave sin from my eternal soul, redeem me o lord
Accuse one dipshit on twitter of being bad faith and suddenly I'm accusing EVERYONE of being bad faith, wow who knew I was such a troublemaker :bolso-joker:
Defending an elected politician in DC by using a take defined by vague references and a "feeling" about something that is "transparently" happening while at the same time providing NO names, NO examples, NO links, nothing but a random assertion based on.......something that Mr. Breadtuber saw but isn't specifying despite the fact that what he saw is an example of gross transparent sexism in left spaces, you'd think he'd willing to expose these so-called leftists who are engaging in sexism against AOC, but I guess we just have to take his word on it?
Yeah fuck me for not responding positivity to his intentional vagueness and assuming ulterior political motives at play
Let's get this straight I would never accuse other leftists of sexism based solely on my "intuition", if I see sexism infesting a left space, I point it out, I link to it, I name names, and I say this is sexist and here's WHY, I don't hide my accusations behind vagueness and a "feeling", that shit is irresponsible and frankly disgusting, especially taking into account the platform and fanbase this doofus pocesses
And the quality of an idea doesn't survive if it's attached to lazy horseshit like that, which is WHY I called him an UNSERIOUS HACK in the first place
And it didn't take me no "5 times more thought" I literally deduced what's going on seconds after reading the tweet, because it's that obvious when you don't take something at face value
he’s talking about at a specific sort of hypocrisy
He is literally accusing a group of undetermined leftists of hypocrisy, that is the POINT of the tweet, why are you talking about wearing hats?
are you concerned that someone less scrupulous might read this and see it as justification to lump you in with sexist bigots?
Huh, yes that's kinda been the medias and liberals go to take when they want to smear others to their left, accusing leftists of sexism without receipts is what I call accessory to the crime
would that actually be the breadtuber’s fault?
Yes it would, as per his platform
Oh well that's convenient, when you accuse others of vague crimes and they push back you can just say "I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about those other people who totally represent a sizable faction of the left" the strategy of the coward
couldn’t we just say “that’s a psy-op, that’s a fascist pretending to be one of us”? couldn’t we just say that it’s a fringe minority and they don’t represent us?
Why would we do that? If we have receipts we'd just dunk on those losers instead, why are you assuming we'd be just as dishonest as Big Joel?
who is big joel accusing?
Good fuckin question, maybe Joel can specify
you can’t be credibly accused of sexism simply for disliking AOC
Oh, yeah? You should read the replies under his tweet then
No, he's saying the only reason a leftist would like Bernie but would dislike AOC is sexism/racism
There's a lot of hurt people who spend entirely way too much time online trying to play out their insecurities.
fuck that guy for reducing all left criticism of AOC to sexism
hate to sound like a reactionary but this will only get worse
FTV wasn't left criticism of AOC it was a few podcasters - many of whom were decidedly to her right or allying with the right against her - trying to make a quick buck. If you're going to dump AOC make it over actually bad things she did like help cover up Tara Reade.
FTV wasn’t left criticism of AOC it was a few podcasters - some of whom were decidedly to her right or allying with the right against her
Was Brie allying with the right to take down AOC and make a few bucks, is this a serious fuckin take?
lol and Jimmy Dore is definitely to AOC's LEFT when it comes to foreign policy, so you're take doesn't work from that angle
And the only podcasters I saw allying with the right was Sam Seder who brought on pro-libyan war activist Nomiki Konst to smear Dore with neocon talking points from Bellingcat
Getting real tired with these succdems on this chat
Brie literally marched with Pizzagate people two weeks ago at a FTV rally, so yes.
liking Bernie became something of a lefty shibboleth, “are you committed to the cause enough even to ignore or defy the libs”, which isn’t something that can happen with AOC. IDK Rashida Tlaib booing Hillary and Ilhan Omar being an anti-imperialist also gets them lib hate
I mean this is the point though. If you even approach threatening power or the US imperial death machine, libs will turn on you in a heartbeat. AOC being liked by libs is an insult to her character if anything.
Nah, they like her because she's young and poc. I think they're able to look past her more left positions because she's not really a threat as just a junior congresswoman. Bernie being a presidential front-runner made him an actual threat, and thus the focus of there hate
they’re able to look past her more left positions because she’s not really a threat
Your comment starts with “nah” but that’s literally what I said lol
Actually wait. What you're wrong about is that it's an insult to her character. Just being a junior congresswoman, and therefore not a threat, isn't a character flaw.
Her existence lets them think that the Democratic Party has a future that's worth thinking about. On the surface, she's a manifestation of that "demographics is destiny" shit that they were telling themselves some years ago.
The libs like AOC because she’s a young person of color who currently isn’t a threat to them. Watch how quickly they’ll turn on her if she seeks either Schumer’s seat or the presidency.
The libs liked Bernie (or just ignored him) until he became a serious threat to them.
a vibe that to be totally fair AOC doesn’t have any control over
She could start by not voting for Nancy Pelosi. Of course all of "the Squad" has sold out in that way.
rashida tlaib is the best of the squad bar none and thats why you dont hear about her much
But I honestly was thinking about this and it’s because AOC has a lib/centrist following due to being a young POC, wheras Bernie was actively reviled by those quarters.
Ok yeah, true. But it's also the sexism and racism, too. Por que no los dos.
OP this isn't directed at you or anyone in particular... but if you find yourself frequently criticizing women but generally stan and/or lighten up on the criticism towards men (especially when you have a man and woman saying the same shit out there like Bernie and AOC do)... I dunno maybe it's time to do some introspection.
neither are lenin
Lenin was exiled from his country and had to be smuggled back in by a rival nation in order to kick off the Revolution. If an American Lenin were alive today, FBI snipers would be surrounding his house.
I finished listening to the latest episode of TrueAnon, and Brace ended with a chilling point. The evolution of an increasingly inhuman American military state has produced a reactionary element in the Islamic World by the way of ISIS. Extremist military action - wherein private unaccountable security commit massacres on arbitrary street corners in Baghdad, where diplomatic envoys can be bombed on the local airport's tarmac, where predator drones assassinate entire wedding parties - it all culminates in a kind of nihilism that is staggering.
I think that the attitude towards Communists in this country has changed the kind of individual that could operate as a Lenin or even a Marx. Anything resembling leftism going forward is necessarily going to be an insurgent movement, not an academic or philosophical one. It's going to need to survive in an economy that is actively hostile toward it.
Or its going to get wiped out, much like Communism in the US functionally was after the 1950s.
Stop listening to TrueAnon and Chapo. They're blackpilling you.
His point on insurgency is true. USA's most effective socialist org, the Black Panthers, understood the importance of insurgent warfare. I just read Blood in My Eye by George Jackson, and he spoke about how in the face of such insurmountable odds' insurgency is the most effective option. It takes 10-1 force to overpower an insurgency.
There is no group in the US that rivals the panthers today, however.
Yeah an insurgent left like they are referring to is imo doomed in a lot of circumstances (and 100 percent is in our current one, I mean look what happened with the new communist movement) and even using Lenin as an example of an insurgent is pretty ahistorical and the interplay of insurgent like and non insurgent like worker forces acting in Tsarist Russia leading up to and during WW1 is very complicated and so removed from our own circumstances. I'd also disagree that the black panthers ever even got close to approaching a comparable level of power and potential to the US orgs in the 1910s and 20s (which also got crushed by capital via its own means and the means it wielded with the state).
I think that's a really ahistorical way to view Lenin and Hampton. We didn't have our Lenin (I'd argue we shouldn't have a Lenin either in the sense of his actions post 1917). But anyhow, Hampton cannot be compared to Lenin at all. Lenin was not really involved in on the ground organizing in Russia at all for many years of his life, rather there thousands of dedicated radicals organizing in their workplaces and towns (many who were killed like Hampton), combined with the crumbling tsarist state and ww1 that led to the revolution. Lenin participated in protests and wrote and distributed pamphlets (within a highly organized and developed set of anti tsarist Marxist organizations that already existed, and with funding from his mom ) while in law school, got exiled, and went to Europe for 20 years organizing and theorizing alongside help from the spd and was sent back to Russia once the revolution had already sparked off. The two situations are just incomparable.
If Lenin had been executed by the Tsar in the 1890s,there still was a massive revolutionary left carrying on created and sustained by many organizations that helped create Lenin as he was in the first place. We cannot compare that to Hampton.
I think a lot of you should also wrestle with the fact that it IS also partly sexism that makes it easier for you to dislike a woman compared to a man.
I sense a lot of people are intentionally looking the other direction. There is a fair point here and for many of Bernie's male followers it is absolutely true.
The question is whether they were critical of Bernie or not previously. Or whether your views on imperialism have changed in that time. Or whether your understanding of the issues with Bernie have changed. If you now dislike Bernie because he's an imperialist, it is fine for you to also dislike AOC. Just explain that your views of Bernie have also changed now.
Dear lord. The state of this sub.
They were both always democrats. That is a non-starter.
I liked Bernie because I was still naive. Now I'm well aware that electoral politics is a dead end. And they (Bernie, AOC, Ilhan, etc) are all imperialists so Little Joel can go fuck himself tbh
I support Bernie and the people he proudly* endorses unconditionally. Not to say that they're immune to criticism but I believe that if leftism is too grow in America it requires that you have social democrats in the relevant political sphere to turn libs into rad libs into demsocs into socdems into socialists. You can't really skip a step in the process without losing your "bignet" politics and leftist recruiting.
-7DeadlyFetishes
Just saying that if AOC finds herself in a similar position as Bernie was in 2016 and 2020 I plan to shill for her as hard as I did for him, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of her for doing lib shit when she does it in the meantime.
Its partially the blackpilled bullshit the dirtbag left pod hosts all started pushing post-Bernie and partially sexism.
Why would Chapo trap house make you like Bernie but not AOC? Also the vast majority of the American electorate has never heard of these podcasts.
