There is not a single elected official who is on the side of the left that high up in politics.
Exactly this and there quite literally can not be.
I know mr.fetishes is trying to be a pragmatist but this is why it’s not pragmatism to support socdems that get elected and immediately sell out, tho it’s not really selling out if they were never really on our side to begin.
If you really want to pragmatically support socialist ideas it’d more valuable to join/start an organization and do irl praxis in your community and educate than to go, “hey at least aoc voted no on that bad bill, praxis, yas kween.”
These socdems funnel praxis into status quo approved methods of political engagement the same way any other liberal politician does, they just do it for the more fringe lefties who haven’t completely broke off from electorialism yet.
Who "got elected and then immediately sold out"? Who in the United States political system ran as a socialist then immediately abandoned their principles for material gain? Do you consider Cori Bush a sellout? Or was she never on our side or what?
Like, do you think these elected socialists are good immediately until they get elected, then they're sellouts the second they take the oath of office? Or are they sellouts the minute they consider going from activism to elected office? I'm not asking this in bad faith I'm genuinely curious.
Sellout was a bit loaded but I meant that more that that’s how some people talk about them.
I don’t consider social Democrats socialist. None of the “socialist” American politicians are socialist. They are capitalist who want more social programs that’s why they’re “social” democrats.
That’s what I meant by “it’s not really selling out.” Cuz they’re not, they’re doing exactly what you’d expect them to do.
And that’s perfectly fine. But it’s reasonable and expected that socialists, who want worker control, to not like it when a capitalist does capitalist things (like supporting capital and imperialism) and we shouldn’t give them a pass simply bc they like social programs. We’re allowed to call them out for stuff like that.
Not every way people do it is above board or the best way but I think it’s silly to say “we’re not gonna criticize socdems” it’s the same energy as liberals putting their candidates above criticism for equally “pragmatic reasons”
Exactly this and there quite literally can not be.
I know mr.fetishes is trying to be a pragmatist but this is why it’s not pragmatism to support socdems that get elected and immediately sell out, tho it’s not really selling out if they were never really on our side to begin.
If you really want to pragmatically support socialist ideas it’d more valuable to join/start an organization and do irl praxis in your community and educate than to go, “hey at least aoc voted no on that bad bill, praxis, yas kween.”
These socdems funnel praxis into status quo approved methods of political engagement the same way any other liberal politician does, they just do it for the more fringe lefties who haven’t completely broke off from electorialism yet.
Who "got elected and then immediately sold out"? Who in the United States political system ran as a socialist then immediately abandoned their principles for material gain? Do you consider Cori Bush a sellout? Or was she never on our side or what?
Like, do you think these elected socialists are good immediately until they get elected, then they're sellouts the second they take the oath of office? Or are they sellouts the minute they consider going from activism to elected office? I'm not asking this in bad faith I'm genuinely curious.
Sellout was a bit loaded but I meant that more that that’s how some people talk about them.
I don’t consider social Democrats socialist. None of the “socialist” American politicians are socialist. They are capitalist who want more social programs that’s why they’re “social” democrats.
That’s what I meant by “it’s not really selling out.” Cuz they’re not, they’re doing exactly what you’d expect them to do.
And that’s perfectly fine. But it’s reasonable and expected that socialists, who want worker control, to not like it when a capitalist does capitalist things (like supporting capital and imperialism) and we shouldn’t give them a pass simply bc they like social programs. We’re allowed to call them out for stuff like that.
Not every way people do it is above board or the best way but I think it’s silly to say “we’re not gonna criticize socdems” it’s the same energy as liberals putting their candidates above criticism for equally “pragmatic reasons”
and dont make it clear they hate the dem establishment more than AES lmao, if you can support a coup against maduro u can support one against pelosi