Some Quotes :
“The alternative to a rules-based order is a world in which might makes right and winner takes all and that would be a far more violent and unstable world,” Blinken said.
The Chinese fired back. Yang Jiechi, a member of the Politburo, offered a lengthy monologue in which he said Western nations don’t represent global public opinion and called the U.S. the “champion” of cyber-attacks.
“Many people within the United States actually have little confidence in the democracy of the United States,” he said, citing the killing of Black Americans and the Black Lives Matter movement. Near the end of his opening remarks, he said Blinken’s comments weren’t “normal” and added that in response “mine aren’t either.”
Things only got worse from there. Cameras were ushered from the room, only to be called back in. Yang and Foreign Minister Wang Yi took the opportunity to follow up with even more criticism. “Is that the way you had hoped to conduct this dialogue?” Yang asked, according to his delegation’s translator. “I think we thought too well of the United States. The United States isn’t qualified to speak to China from a position of strength.”
https://archive.is/V8Inr#selection-3653.0-3665.64
Mic Drop .... :xi-clap: :xi-lib-tears:
Many people within the United States actually have little confidence in the democracy of the United States
We got a shoutout :party-blob:
No no no, if it was an American food metaphors they would've used "yum-yum sauce" instead.
If your barbecue needs a sauce you're doing it wrong. Roasted meat should be amazing and delicious on its own.
Libs take this to mean "Donald Trump was a mistake and we voted him out" and that Amerikkka is otherwise as pure as freshly-driven snow...
You have to be completely divorced from the reality working class Americans live in to say such bullshit with a straight face.
Of course the State Department is completely divorced from reality. Used to be just psychological barrier, but now they have troops in DC creating a Green Zone to protect them from the American people. They want nothing to do with ordinary Americans and view them with outright contempt.
The United States isn’t qualified to speak to China from a position of strength.
Oof. :meow-popcorn:
I have access to some Chinese social media and there is a lot of cheering and fist-pumping today. Comparisons are being made to the high-handed way China was treated in the past by US diplomats and now are paying them back in their own coin.
Uh, it's better if you don't identify yourself in such situations. Chinese have nowhere to output their rage and when these occasional situations pop up you just have to sit them out. I'd get dogpiled in a second, and honestly the chaos that the US left has been causing hasn't made a good impression either. They have a word, 'baizuo' which is a very specific insult for this kind of person. It's unfortunate, especially considering the CPC itself was engaged in such chaos-causing campaigns 100 years ago in the 1920s with the goal to smash the state.
The faction that's been causing all the fires and damage. It's been broadcast over and over on Chinese social media and has done a ton of damage to the idea of "freedom" and "democracy" in China. The idea being that if you give Chinese people the same freedoms, these same results will occur. China had decades of chaos, much within living memory. Never again, they say. They prefer the CPC with all its faults.
Are you talking about the BLM protests? Lmao so much for solidarity eh.
A lot of Chinese look up to America and wish they had the freedoms we had. Then they see video after video of violence and small businesses being looted and burned out, and conclude: this is what they do with their freedom?
And you think the CPC doesn't jump right in afterwards and say, "See? This is what we're protecting you from. You want freedom? This is what you're going to get. Better to stick with us, no matter how awful we are." Chinese people fear chaos more than anything else. They had quite enough of it during their lifetimes and anyone over 60 lived through it. The scars are deep and will not heal soon.
Research on the protests show time and time again that the overwhelming majority were peaceful. The "violence" is the cost of trying to solve crime by pressing a militarized unaccountable police force on poor people. Whatever they've gone through, theres no telling us what to do with our freedom especially if they can't bother to get facts right.
The cops didn't set all those stores on fire. It greatly damaged the credibility of pro-democracy forces in China and the CPC made sure it got top billing on all the social media. Kind of like how Youtube artificially puts videos they politically approve of in the "Trending" category or Twitter inflates hashtags. It was used against the Hong Kong protesters, too. "They're two sides of the same coin! We must stop these wreckers before they cause havoc like they did in America!"
Yeah the cops were too busy running over people and wrecking the cars of passerbys. Do they show the video of people being shot on their front porch for filming the police? Or are you gonna keep saying "well some protests turned into riots so police states are legitimate"
Dude I'm telling you what China saw. It's no different from Twitter or Youtube putting political topics they like up front where people will see them.
So? There's no free speech in China. The government decides what's on the front page. We do the same, but private companies do it so it's OK in some kind of weird hardcore libertarian viewpoint.
Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize the CCP sends direct broadcasts to the brain of their citizens.
What's your point anyway?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like Malikto is just trying to use their Chinese language skills and cultural knowledge to help us understand some of the discourse happening in China without it being filtered through an American source.
Then it seems like he has internalized that discourse in his noble quest to translate it.
This is just unironic chud talking points. The cops overwhelmingly started riots during otherwise peaceful protests, which themselves are the result of police brutalizing the population. Fires and looting have everything to do with the US population and especially minority population being overly oppressed, not having “too much freedom” lmfao
China is a profoundly different society with no experience of democracy. Their values are not our values. You don't expect people to accept those values, but just understand them.
One of my hobbies is 20th century Chinese history from 1904-1978 and boy, did they get a dose of chaos during that time. Anyone who promises stability, and then follows up on their end of the deal, is going to win a great deal of support. And the CPC has done that. 20 years ago China was a dusty shithole, now even small cities have skyscrapers and electric buses and malls.
Chinese people only get to vote on the lowest level of government, which is pretty worthless.
And you think the CPC doesn’t jump right in afterwards and say, “See? This is what we’re protecting you from. You want freedom? This is what you’re going to get. Better to stick with us, no matter how awful we are.”
Yes, I think that they do not say this. I’m directly contesting that the CPC says this, please provide source. I’m especially interested in them framing it the way you have as freedom being what causes protests, and also the part where they talk about how awful they are.
Oh yeah? The Chinese people yearn for the freedom and democracy of America, and relief from the terror of communism, but they're disheartened by our BLM riots? That's wild, dude. So anyway how's life in the CIA?
It's not the "terror of communism", it's rule by the CPC. Despite everything, they're still delivering on the economic prosperity that gives them legitimacy in the first place. Still, some Chinese people want full freedoms because the CPC does a lot of stupid shit, especially at the local level, and nobody can talk back to them. You can't vote the bastards out.
You're making a ridiculous exaggeration, but the gist of what you say is essentially true.
Heck, after Trump and Brexit, a lot of westerners aren't so hot on the idea of democracy either. If it can produce invalid results like that, then it's obvious that we need a new system, a post-democracy system. The current system is broken if reactionaries can use it for their advantage. How can you reform the systems that replicate inequities? You can't. Democracy is not the end, we need post democracy systems. And they have to be better than the average Joe. Because that's the point we are at, problems are over the head of the average Joe. We've all seen what happens when the Joes all speak together - disaster.
"You are dictatorial." My dear sirs, you are right, that is just what we are. All the experience the Chinese people have accumulated through several decades teaches us to enforce the people's democratic dictatorship, that is, to deprive the reactionaries of the right to speak and let the people alone have that right.
-- Mao Zedong
So...you...random internet commenter...know socialism better than Mao Zedong.
Well OK then.
Personally I think he was one of the most astute political commentators ever, and had much to say that is worth reading. And he not only outlasted the Japanese, but he won a civil war where the other side had every possible advantage, including massive weapons transfers from the USA.
"Every Communist must grasp the truth, 'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun'"
-- Mao
Oh I understand .... , can you elaborate on "Baizuo" by the way ...
It refers to how western leftists are seen in China. They have every freedom the Chinese want for themselves, and yet use these freedoms in a manner that Chinese find irresponsible, self-indulgent, and ultimately self-defeating. China went through its struggle session phase and does not, ever, want to return to that kind of situation.
In my experience in online chicom circles, Baizuo is generally used for those on the American left who says that they are for self-determination and socialism, but are willing to listen to and collaborate with the American state to bash Syria, China, Iran.etc. So I was always under the impression that Baizuo referred to demsoc/socdem AOC/Ilhan Omar characters who'd preach for socialist policies at home but then will supporting drone strikes.
"Chicom"? That's a blast from the past. How old are you, grandpa?
Not to be a dick about it, but the English-speaking Chinese world in the west is different from the Chinese-speaking world. Baizuo are people who have every freedom Chinese people want and yet use such freedoms in ways Chinese find incomprehensibly reprehensible.
I know that the Americans from way back loved to use Chicom as an insult, but I'm Chi and I'm com and I like the word so I'm using it.
I think it's just another case of the same word being used for different purposes, the majority of people in China is non-political and as such would not know what Baizuo means and would not give a fuck about them. My hillbilly family in north east would have no idea what I mean by Baizuo, but will know exactly what I'm talking about if I say Baiguizi. Baizuo is one of those words where you project your political enemies onto, my fellow tankies uses Baizuo as a stand in for anarchists, socdems and demsocs. I'm guessing you're likely interacting with liberals/progressives in China, who probably uses it to insult the American liberal/social left who are making their ideology look bad.
Chicom died out when we had to stop making the difference between PRC and ROC. Now PRC is "China" and ROC is "Taiwan" and anyone you see still using Chicom is usually a grandpa who fought in Korea or some frothing right winger who is still fighting the Cold War.
my fellow tankies uses Baizuo as a stand in for anarchists, socdems and demsocs.
Oh, so you're using the word wrong then. That explains it.
will know exactly what I’m talking about if I say Baiguizi.
Wow, you really are up on dated terms, aren't you? You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means. Better to switch to yangguizi or meidi. Or just stop using words you don't understand altogether.
Chicom died out when we had to stop making the difference between PRC and ROC
I know, but I like the word, and it delivered the information that I wanted you to understand so it served its function well.
Oh, so you’re using the word wrong then. That explains it.
Are you l'acadamie Chinoise? Who gave you the authority to define and denote words?
Wow, you really are up on dated terms, aren’t you?
When's the last time someone called a foreigner a "yangren"? Or a "meidi"? I called the whites Bairen, and the enemy Guizi, so the two together is Baiguizi. I'm sorry that White can refer both to ideology and race, I suppose that when the Native Americans talk about the white men they're referring to tsarists and other reactionaries because context doens't exist. I'll fix the way I adapt and use my native language for you Mr.Malikto and I'll let my family in Hulunbeir know so he can fix his shit. MB.
Look, when terms are in common usage, that's what they mean. Especially neologisms like baizuo. And you just make up words when it suits you? OK I get what's going on here.
Just because a word is in common usage among one group doesn't prevent it from taking another meaning in another group. The word "leftist" takes on a complete different meaning with their own connotations among communists and among Qanon cultists. That was the message I tried (and clearly failed) to convey in my original reply. And it's not "making up words" when I add a character "Bai" to the word "Guizi" to specify what kind of Guizi I'm talking about. I have not invented new characters, I have not tried to create a new meaning through the combination of two or more characters, all I've done is used a character to extend and clarify a widely understood word to specify what I mean by it.
Like for fucksakes, what's got you so aggressive about all of this? Whats your deal? I just came to clarify that I had a different experience with the word Baizuo and inferred a different meaning from it and here you are attacking my credibility as a Chinese person. Why don't you go lie down, logout and reduce your bloodpressure.
If you're gonna invent a private patois that only you and your friends understand, don't be surprised when you use it in public and people have no idea what you're talking about.
"The Beginning of Wisdom is Calling Things by Their Right Names"
-- Chinese saying attributed to Confucius
A private patois? That's just how the word is used in the online english Chinese leftist community. I'm literally explaning what the word means in that specific community, and you understood exactly who Chicom refers to. Get your head out of your ass.
"Pee Pee Poo Poo Diarrhea"
- Quoting wise people doesn't make you one.
and they are dead on ! , fucking china figureing it all out...................
Dude you didn't get the message, they want you to be a civility lib basically. That and also identity politics/political correctness stuff.
It's very weird how people say "wow these people are so right about us" but would attack anyone else for saying the same thing lol
The US has treated so many high-handedly over the decades, you can't just put the Trump Pandora back in the box and pretend you're not just continuing the same but with the old idealist facade like Biden and co are trying to do.
The vultures are circling and many will cheer them on.
Trump had little or no influence over the State Department. He did however force them into a round of layoffs, which was accompanied by much weeping and gnashing of teeth.
State could negotiate away our jobs and get millions of us laid off and coldly dismiss us as losers. But the moment downsizing hit them - a single time - it was a world tragedy.
it real was the Us Delegation that wanted the Journlsit to leave ..............
Pathetic fucks... https://twitter.com/DotDotNews1/status/1372852607153184772
It's really funny the US side agreed to do this, like everyone has heard all their complaints about China but most Americans have never heard any pushback in the media about their fundamental, idealist conception of 'America'. And then you give your main rival 30 minutes to berate you in front of cameras.
This is debate club mentality.
reminds me of how last year the media pushed the scary Floyd riots and burning MPD precinct until they realized the majority of people were loving it and wanting more, not clutching their pearls. guessing we'll see a suppression of coverage around anything that happens with Chauvin this time, they are going to use the autoban stuff they've been trying out that accidentally banned anyone who said "Memphis".
“Many people within the United States actually have little confidence in the democracy of the United States,”
What democracy? Don't you mean dictatorship of the bourgeois?
The sheer delusion and arrogance of the US imperial agents here remind me of how the clueless Qianlong Emperor spoke to George Macartney in 1793: “Our Heavenly Dynasty abounds in goods of all kinds and lacks nothing, and we do not at all need to trade with y’all barbarians. Yet out of our sheer benevolence we allow y’all poor things to trade with us in Guangzhou. You Brits should feel lucky that we even want to talk to you.”
I wouldn’t be surprised if the US deep state understand even less about China today (despite what they may think of themselves) than did the Qing elites about the Brits back then.
That was the Qing being racist assholes. They could have traded goods, but didn't want to. They considered themselves the center of the world, and all around them, in thousands of miles in every direction, were cultures that didn't measure up to their own.
That changed bigtime when the Western powers arrived. The British tried to trade and the Qing refused: cash only. The British gave warning after warning, eyed the Qing up and down, and knew they had nothing that could stop them. So the Opium War happened. A few thousand soldiers soundly thrashed the Qing. And instead of learning from the experience, the Qing would make any deal, no matter how terrible, to keep power in their own country. Only the vast size and unconquerable nature of China "saved" them.
All the disorder in America has been a gift from heaven to the Chinese. Anytime anyone says, "Chinese people need freedom" the CPC need only point to what happened to Americans who were given freedom and then used it to burn down their own cities. Chinese fear chaos more than anything, and will choose the CPC anytime. Heck, the CPC only lets smart people in. Xi Jinping is a chemical engineer.
this "Sick man on the Pontomac" has been weighted and has been found lacking ....
I was gonna say, that’s literally the type of world the United States has been trying to make a reality for its entire existence.
Love how it's just "rules-based", not even "democracy-based" or "diplomacy-based" anymore, just "rules". Like a toddler getting angry that he has to share his toys.
The US makes the rules, the rest of the world follows them. Of course the US is not subject to the same rules - how could it be? The US must enforce the rules while being free to break them. You might think this is a stupid contradiction, but State Department does not see it that way at all. This is "American Exceptionalism", widely misunderstood to mean USA NUMBAH ONE, which is not how State views it. the notion of American Exceptionalism which is an ideology that means that they view the US to have rights no other country in the world has do to the exceptional nature of their state compared to other countries. Thus they view American interference in other countries as totally in their right due to their superiority over others, while inferiors of course have no right to do the same to America.
"It is the threat of the use of force and our line-up there that is going to put force behind the diplomacy. But if we have to use force, it is because we are America; we are the indispensable nation. We stand tall and we see further than other countries into the future, and we see the danger here to all of us."
-- Madeline Albright, trying to justify the invasion of Iraq. It finally happened after she was out of office.
The United States isn’t qualified to speak to China from a position of strength.
:angery:
If we're lucky it will be the first drop of many :xi-plz:
absolutely fucking owned lmao, also, once again, my comment about politics just being kindergarten feuds stays true.
