Russia has lost 87% of its deployed troops by recent estimates, so fortunately it's increasingly looking like the only way Russia can "win" is by saving face and removing their troops from occupied Ukrainian territories, including Crimea.
If you seriously believe that 87% of russian troops have been lost you need to take a long hard look at why you think that’s true. Like think about it, if theyve lost that many troops then why haven’t the battle lines shifted in any meaningful way basically all year ? Why is there no outrage and overflowing graveyards, or increased mobilization in Russia if thats the case ?
Seriously like whatever side of the conflict you’re on aside, if you want any intellectual credibility you gotta think about that one
Deployed troops, not troop reserves. The estimates are fairly accurate and have been fact checked by multiple intelligence groups. There's burn pits for the bodies of dead Russians, don't exactly need a graveyard when they go up in smoke.
The 87% is from the US latest estimate of 315,000 casualties. This lines up fairly well with Ukrainian reports, as well as UK, and AUS reports. Fortunately burn pits are hard to hide from satellite imagery.
Unfortunately my access to these images is limited due to the sensitive nature of the military optics involved, however in the future, the ICC will judiciate these war crimes, and the evidence will likely see public eyes.
Even without those images, the documented attrocities by both Hamas and the IDF are abhorrent. Needless loss of life is terrible and should be condemned. I'm glad I live in a country that openly condemns the violence facing civilians in the region.
You are such a fed, Jesus. My point is that Israel makes up evidence and the US regularly supports its inventions. See Joe pretending those baby pictures exist.
Joe did not confirm these photos exist, he did acknowledge that it had been relayed to him they exist. He stands firm on trust, but verify, which is an important aspect of honing policy decisions.
It's possible it was a result of his diagnosed stutter, he's not exactly the most eloquent speaker I'll admit, but it'd be wrong to judge someone based on a speech impediment.
If you could define bit like I asked, maybe I could inform you if this equates it? I'm really just trying to get people to use reason and logic to draw conclusions and present those in public discourse. Does that match the definition?
Interesting, however you failed to define bit. Do you mean bit as in comedy sketch? If so, that's an incredibly uncommon use of the word, and furthermore wrong for this context.
You're online enough to make like half the total commemts in this thread. You know what a bit is. And may add, its a great one. You're hilarious and i love it, and i admire the commitment
Your country has consistently threatened mine with sanctions and even military actions the second Nelson Mandela became sworn in as president, all the way to the present.
This really depends on the war/conflict being discussed, but generally speaking the US's global policy is to support democracy and the humane treatment of humans. Respecting this general stance, it's easy to back Ukraine in a defensive manor, protecting the sovereign control from foreign Russian aggression.
Fuck, I remember you now, you're that fucker who made it like two comments into defending that ridiculous thesis a few months ago before turning around and crying to some other instance that I said something that I plainly didn't. I don't remember exactly what it was. I think I discussed the DPRK, but there was something else to it too.
This is such a pathetic line from someone who cannot contradict the assumption that the US are the good guys. The only time I ever saw you change your position was when you went from going "yeah, some of those other times were bad, but they are good now!" to "the Vietnam War was in defense of democracy".
Absolute fucking clown. I hope you're a fed because it means they are wasting some of their subversion budget paying incompetents like you.
Once again, your use of language is a disgrace to meaningful debate. Please learn some civility in dealing with these matters, it'll pay out dividends down the road.
Your fetishism of PG speech to defend the bloodiest empire in history is a disgrace to humanity and common decency. I'll take my chances falling afoul of the tenets of your Debate God.
Which intelligence groups? Surely ones with actual credibility, right? Not the ones that lied about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction. Not the ones that lied about covid being a Chinese bioweapon while murdering their own citizens because doing something to protect people from covid would reduce profits. Not the ones that lied about Hamas beheading babies. Any intelligence group that ever spread any of those lies has zero credibility.
So ones with no credibility as I just demonstrated. Verify that they've lied to you in the past, but trust that they won't this time.
How was Trump's handling of covid any different than Biden's? They both pushed the strategy of doing less testing so we have less cases. Vaccine uptake was abysmal under both, and will only get worse now that vaccines have gone from being free to costing almost $200. The majority of Americans have been gathering without masks at places like restaurants since day 1 because corporate media has constantly said sacrificing people for the economy is good, and no public official has even attempted to do anything to stop that. Trump's covid response was bipartisan from the start.
Actually many American's chose to wear masks, including myself, based on public health guidance. There's definitely some inadvisable decisions made by those largely under the Trump umbrella, but they're an outlier that make for entertaining news segments.
Yeah, the people under the Trump umbrella were pretty bad. Remember when they spat in the face of science and public health to cut the isolation period for covid cases in half because delta airlines complained about losing money? It's crazy that some people don't condemn them for that and tragic that there were never any criminal charges for such an incredible abuse of power.
That was an example of Biden's covid response. We agree that Trump's administration should be condemned for its handling of covid. It seems we also agree that Biden's administration should be condemned for its handling of covid.
You singled out Trump as the one president with a bad covid response. I asked how Biden's covid response was any different and you still talked about Trump. I presented an example of a terrible covid response from Biden and you agreed it should be condemned.
I really don’t mean this in a condescending way, and I understand why someone consuming certain kinds of media might think this… but this is truly delusional. So wildly at odds with the reality of the situation that you would probably be better served just not reading about the conflict at all than by reading whatever it is you’ve been reading.
I intake media from all sides, it's important to know the scope of propaganda coming from every outlet. Fortunately there's enough sources to corroborate the information I've relayed here. For the Russian propaganda machine, the same cannot be said. How's Prigozhin doing?
Propaganda is rhetoric designed to produce support for or against particular decisions/actions. Russian propaganda is shaped to meet Putin's goals, but easily disproven and consistently, blatantly false.
I'm spurring debate in a conflict ridden world. It's important to understand and discuss all sides, but to maintain an understanding of historical context to guide this discourse.
Under your own definition earlier propaganda would apply to individuals as well, not only states. Also I'd disagree that propaganda is one sided. Good propaganda encompasses and undermines other viewpoints.
As for spurring debate and maintaining an understanding for historical context. How do you contextualize among others things like this:
Biden predicting in 1997 what would happen if NATO expands
https://www.c-span.org/video/?86974-1/nato-expansion
If Biden knew that Russia wouldn't tolerate NATO expansion, why push for it anyway if war is on the table?
Putin being handselected by Clinton and Yeltsin
https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-s-a-solid-man-declassified-memos-offer-window-into-yeltsin-clinton-relationship/29462317.html
How does he go from good guy to bad guy in such a short span of time? What changed?
The leaked nuland phone call
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk38Jk_JL0g
Yes and I asked you what changed and if you can contextualize. You yourself understand that historical context is important. After all ignoring historical context would rob this conflict of it's meaning, no? Or are you one of those rubes that believes Putin ordered an attack out of his own volition?
There's plenty of historical context to cover. Like how Ukraine became the breadbasket feeding the Soviets in the USSR at the expense of their own population.
Sure but you're ignoring that the Soviet Union got dissolved and had a friendly western handpicked succesor at that point. So no more threat to UA, no? NATOs purpose was also a reaction to the creation of Soviet Russia, but what was it's purpose after the dissolution of the SU? Why join and expand NATO when everyones friendly now?
If everyone was friendly, why did Ukraine not give Russia their soverign land? The people of Ukraine voted for Zelensky fighting Russian influence for this exact reason. NATO continues to exist to promote stability and peace in the EU full stop. They're a defensive pact to deter outside aggression. Ukraine believes joining this pact will protect them from Russian aggression. Much like Finland and Sweden. Come on now, even Switzerland has chosen the side of Ukraine here.
If everyone was friendly, why did Ukraine not give Russia their soverign land?
Everyone was friendly right after the dissolution of the SU. With the prospect of NATO expansion and initially friendly Russia getting declined 3 times into the alliance they added 1 and 1 together.
The people of Ukraine voted for Zelensky fighting Russian influence for this exact reason.
Zelenski got voted for because he promised an end to the civil war in donbas
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955
https://www.france24.com/en/20190416-russian-speakers-ukraine-candidate-talking-language
Exactly! Ukraine's goals aim to unify a diverse population! Majority and minority alike. It's a beautiful resistance movement towards outside Russian aggression negatively impacting the lives of the Russian minority in Eastern Ukraine!
To my knowledge it was a direct policy decision from Putin. It'd be nice to have a free and fair election to see some positive change towards this poor decision making.
NATO only expands with mutual agreement between the parties involved. If a sovereign country feels the need to join NATO, just follow their reasoning to learn about the historical context.
NATO was a reaction to Soviet Russia and the Soviet Union was a reaction to NATO. If the Soviet Union fell, who was the great enemy? What was it's purpose, if not for keeping western global hegemeny. NATO historically has always been the agressing force. Learn about history to get a proper context, lib.
The capabilities of Ukraine to be able to make these assessments are lacking due to the chaos Russian forces decided to bring to their country. I would take their numbers with a grain of salt, requiring corroboration, however the true numbers likeli lie somewhere in the middle of the highest and lowest casualty counts emminated by intelligence.
I mean he kills, or attempts to kill off opposition, think Alexi Navalny, in an effort to remain in power. Not exactly free and fair elections, but I do hope change is coming! I believe the Russian people deserve a democratic process.
Thank you for reiterating and assisting getting this important message across. 315,000 casualties is no joke. This needless loss is directly attributable to Russian aggression.
Russia clearly won, but even if your interjection is plausible. Not if we (Arabs) succeed in dragging the US into another losing war in the Middle East. They are already abandoning Ukraine for Israel. Just imagine if we managed to get troops in Yemen. The US is exercising restraint with Yemen for a reason, already spread too thin and just came out of two losing wars, and we will keep triggering it until it bites.
Not really, the US has been pumping the breaks on Israeli aid because of the indiscriminate bombings in Gaza. The US believes the civilians in Gaza have a right to their territory as a 2 state solution is desired.
literally yesterday. I know you're trying to still believe the US Government/Biden has any morality here but they don't. Stop listening to the lies of politicians, you are being misled and now you're spreading disinformation in service of ethnic cleansing and imperialism.
I'll just leave this here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/blinken-urges-israel-to-comply-with-international-law-and-spare-civilians-in-war-against-hamas
Actions are more important than words. The U.S. is going out of its way to expedite the artillery needed to continue Israel's indiscriminate bombing of civillians in its ongoing genocidal campaign against Palestinians.
Please I am begging you do not take these organizations at face value- read what the poster above you sent and recognize the distance between the statement "You need to comply with international law more closely" and the action: here is a way for us to get you bombs for you to use more quickly.
If on one hand part of the state apparatus is signaling for "restraint" but the state is accelerating its ability to provide weapons that its calling for restraint in use of the actual stance is clear: what you're doing is fine by the state.
It's alright, we can agree to disagree. Biden has criticized the Netanyahu government for their treatment of Palestinians. More should be done to ensure their safety, hence the conditial provisions of arms, but the United States policy stance has clear ambitions for a 2 state solution. Neither Hamas, nor the Netantahu government are okay with this, however it remains the United States ambition. I truly hope we can see this conflict resolved in my lifetime.
As far as I'm aware, the US has not fired any weapons on Gaza soil. There's been some defensive strikes to the north in Lebanon, but that's it. Seems like a stretch to call the United States complicit when it's goals do not align with the Netantahu government.
The vetoes are enough. The weapons and aid sent just make them one step away from pulling the trigger themselves.
The US will be held accountable for this genocide.
Vetoing a ceasefire in an active war does not change states policy and actions, but you can spin this however you'd like and we can agree to disagree. There's nothing wrong with disagreement, it just spurs the need for thoughtful discourse.
The US could have ended it 2 months ago, but instead it sends weapons and stops any international attempt at stopping it. It is complicit and all the resistance groups across the Middle East agree. US interests in the Middle East and military are legitimate targets. We can agree to disagree, but the US government will be held accountable for its war crimes.
As any nation/organization should be. The US is not exempt from international law, but fortunately has a remarkably solid argument in defense of its actions here.
It would be naive to think the strength of a nation in international relations is not a waxing/waning manor. It's of upmost importance to maintain policy that echos the opinions of a collective humanity.
Not true, the US and Israel act independently. Their democratic elections alter policy over time as new elected officials foster youthful debate and thus change officials policy. It's not a static system, but instead a dynamically evolving one.
Yet, the US is in complete lockstep defending Israel, regardless of which party voted in and regardless of which International law Israel is violating.
Honest question, do you know that you are lying? The connection between US financial, military and political support and Israeli crimes against Palestinians is clear to the whole world.
The US supports a 2 state solution and provisions for humanitarian aid due to the atrocities committed by both Hamas and the IDF. The US favors peace and stability.
If the US ever favoured peace and stability it would have had the 2-state solution done in the 1990s. The US always wanted the conflict to be a managed conflict, but never ending.
While the US has its stated policy, it cannot interfere with sovereign authority without unilateral justification. A 2 state solution needs agreement from Palestinians and Israelis alike. I truly hope this can come to fruition to end the needless loss of life.
The only discussion the West understands is at the end of a gun barrel. Otherwise nothing but hypocrisy and double standards.
I mean imagine if I said "It’s possible an separate representing body could be a part of the Russian Federation. That’s an interesting thought and I’d love to discuss it further!" about Ukraine.
The US has been making substantial steps towards reducing emissions. The amount of money funding fusion research right now is incredible! My brother currently works for a private fusion research company and getting to tour was a thrill in itself!
Environmentalists slam Biden admin's oil and gas auctions during COP28
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/29/biden-administration-oil-gas-lease-auctions-cop28
The US is biggest emitter and producer and will only be more so under Biden’s plan
I’m betting you my second house that in 10 years there will still be no high speed rail. Even the amount set aside for local manufacturing is paltry next to what the US sends to Israel to bomb Palestinians.
I've personally seen the infrastructure build out for HSR, it's progressing remarkably fast. Almost all of the at grade crossings are nearing completion for the San Joaquin valley corridor! Exciting news!
Who are you lying to? This is just sad. Egypt will have a HSR before you do, but at least people in the US can console themselves that their government is sending billions to “defend freedom and democracy”.
That's fine, the rate of development is rapid given the geographic, political, and private property questions involved. It's a unique process, but one that I fully support and am happy to see quickly roll out!
Do you understand what it takes to make an Engineering project tick? Also theses plenty of more red tape around the US rollout of HSR than the alternatives you presented.
People in the US assume the rest of the world is a lawless hell hole when many countries including China have stronger protections against eminent domain.
The real reason you haven’t gotten HSR isn’t technical, is political. Israel has first-dips on the US budget. Reminds me of something someone I knew used to say: “the American will sell his kids before cutting aid to Israel”.
So why did Joe Bellend and Obomba overthrow a democratically elected Yakunovich 10 years ago? Or joined up with in Lybia? Or propped up ISIS over a decade ago and try to overthrow Assad, creating a refugee crisis? Or attempt a failed coup in Xinjiang? Or hell, even in December of 2019 overthrow MAS in Bolivia? Just a few recent examples.
Sure as shit sounds like anything except "interfering with sovereign authority without unilateral justification".
Being genocided isn't a disagreement. It is amazing how you can be so racist and defend bombardment against the Palestinians in particular but oppose it against the Ukrainians.
but racism explains why you are defending a genocide against the Palestinians. You would be singing a completely different tune if the people being murdered were relatively civilized relatively european.
where does your double standards come from, unless you don't see the Palestinians as equally humans?
but the 2-state solution itself is annexation. If you are okay with it in Palestine then you should be okay with it in Ukraine. Otherwise you are being a hypocrite either due to historical ignorance or racism.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. All the dots on this map are ethnically cleansed Palestinian towns and villages. If this happening to the Palestinians is okay with you, being forced from their homes with no right to return, then it happening to the Ukrainians should also be okay with you.
The US does not recognize these atrocities and never did. If it had, it would have bombed Tel Aviv decades ago, or at least sanctioned them instead of sending them billions in aid.
Neither is racism and imperialism. Isn't it ironic that the countries that don't recognize Palestine are the same countries that consider Hamas terrorists. Almost like they are racist and imperialist.
Hamas has committed terrorist acts. It'd be naive to think they don't support terrorism. Frankly it was the spark that started the most recent developments with the conflict.
Again, more ignorance. Not only being racist to 87% of the world population who don't see Hamas as terrorists. But also completely disregarding and ignoring the context that led Hamas to respond on October 7th. Do you even know why it was called Operation Al-Aqsa Flood?
This happened on October 4th! Worshippers were attacked in Al-Aqsa Mosque https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/4/israeli-settlers-storm-al-aqsa-mosque-complex-on-fifth-day-of-sukkot
Typical racists, always ignoring that they attacked first, and only focusing on the response.
It's clear the intentions were to strike terror in an effort to bring attention to the apartheid. This does not detract from the fact that it was still terrorism.
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist while the KKK is a tax-exempt religious organization. Your definition of terrorism is racist, and boils down to "when non-whites fight back".
The US supported apartheid in South Africa until the bitter end, even when the rest of the world stood in opposition to it. Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist until 2008.
Your government gets a lot wrong. So I can safely ignore it.
The beauty of a democratic government is the nature of shifts in policy. It may not be able to act as swiftly as an authoritarian regime, but it does allow all sides to get their time to share input. I've never claimed the US to be the arbitor of morality, they've made their fair share of mistakes. Fortunately the democratic process allows us to Garner a better understanding as a whole, and thus work towards the solutions that being forth the most common good. Very utilitarian in nature.
Enjoy your democracy while I enjoy my high speed rail. At least until Israel orders you to bomb us.
After traveling to the US once and actually having the Acela train I was on die during the trip, is plenty of argument against whatever political system you have
Watch Saudi's HSR and weep
https://youtu.be/uXtaWSnmvTg
My brother in Zeus. Saudi's HSR started after and finished before California's HSR. Your government would sooner loot the project for copper wires and steel beams to sell, so that it has money to send to Israel, than allow it to finish.
Your entire government's purpose is to finance and aid Israel, everything else is coincidental.
Well there's a difference in governance. If the US was not a democracy with protections for private property, HSR would've likely been complete. Not to mention the vast differences in terrain which pose difficult engineering questions to be answered.
My vote for Bernie was counted, so yes even for a 3rd party candidate. It would be nice to work towards a proportional representative vote, some states have implement this, but I'd like to see it on the federal scale.
You still haven't been able to back up your claim that the USA is putting the breaks on it's aid of Isreal because of the genocide. All you've done is point to the US going "we'd like it if you slowed down on the genocide, but we'll 100 support you if you don't" and tried to equivocate that as being the same, when it really isn't.
I said pumping the breaks. There's still legitimate concern for the removal of Hamas as the acting government of Gaza. Neither Hamas, nor the Netantahu backed Israeli government want a 2 state solution, however this remains the US states policy. Whoever can broker a deal that affirms a 2 state solution here will hopefully produce meaningful change towards this conflict.
US aid is conditional to congressional support. Currently there's debate on the issue at hand. Doesn't remove the impact humanitarian aid has provided in the region. The 2 state solution has always been the desired solution here in the states. That position has been unwavering.
The United States official policy is for a 2 state solution, I'm not sure how you can see it any other way. Feel free to present your arguments though!
I'm glad I could present you with thoughtful alternatives to your beliefs. It's important for civil discourse. This has been a largely productive and positive discussion, thank you for your input and civility!
Those are some subpar drawing skills if I've ever seen any. You might need some lessons. The whole meme format doesn't really make sense to me, however I'll admit it's possible autism may be at play.
Now I'm just confused, but that's okay! This has been a wonderful discussion regarding the attrocities committed by Russian aggression in Ukraine. I'm glad I could spark some thoughtful debate here in lemmygrad! It's been lacking non affirming voices as far as I can tell.
No, but if you'd like to make that conclusion, it's well within your right to do so. This is why I support our democratic process and the debate it garnishes!
Did anyone ever tell you the saying "actions speak louder than words" as a kid? Now apply that to state actors. No matter what words their US uses, no matter their criticism, their actions are very clear.
Yes absolutely. That's why it's imperative to understand when Putin said we're not going to invade Ukraine, while staging troops along the Ukraine border, then choosing to in invade the foreign country after the Olympics concluded. Understanding here highlights the wrongful actions Russia knowingly committed, at the direction of Putin, against a sovereign nation. The international community has decided to push back against these attrocities and the ICC will adjudicate the war crimes committed in the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
John McCain and Lindsay Graham told neo nazis to go cement the damage done by the 2014 coup and they went and electrocuted babushkas through the kidneys. They build grandmas different in Donetsk so she kept on fighting. Online Ukraine supporters don't have it in them. I'm surprised you haven't moved back to trashing 🇻🇪
Nothing wrong with hyperlinks, however a footnote section makes for a better format. Many of these hyperlinks don't even relate to the word that was linked. It just makes it look as if something backs the claim being made. They're littered everywhere and the few I clicked, didn't have much relevance. Footnotes make it easier to see where each stems from and allow the reader to understand potential bias easier. Care to link to peer reviewed academic articles on one of the subjects? I'd be glad to dig in, but so far I'm reading propaganda sprinkled with a few true statements to produce a sense of legitimacy. It's misinformation campaign 101.
I won't entertain bad faith arguments, but I'd recommend you read up more on the Maidan to gain some historical context. You'll likely make some alterations to your opinion, and shatter bits of your worldview. Also there's plenty of peer reviewed academic papers on the Maidan, e.g. https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1zkjxq0.11
Lol you think a social science paper is the same as a study. You're such a specious thinker. Did you really just search Maidan on Google scholar to try to impress me? I'm going to bend you over.
You want to read a book, big boy? Open wide!
https://files.catbox.moe/r7ee47.php
Your history of Ukraine begins 2022. I have more than one-hundred times the depth of knowledge on this subject you do.
The US is bankrolling the genocide and vetoed the ceasefire. Who are you lying to?
The US and its interests are a fair and legitimate targets because of its involvement and complicity in the genocide.
Joe Biden Moves to Lift Nearly Every Restriction on Israel’s Access to U.S. Weapons Stockpile
https://theintercept.com/2023/11/25/biden-israel-weapons-stockpile-arms-gaza/
Don’t be fooled. Biden is fully signed up to ethnic cleansing in Gaza
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-gaza-biden-fully-signed-up-genocide
I've been at this discourse for hours, there's definitely some effort involved. I appreciate you having open ears and listening! It's important to have open dialogue discussing these matters.
And they'll keep receiving said money because the majority of the United Nations believes Russia is the aggressor. Allowing an aggressor to overtake soverign land is a big no-no to the UN.
Allowing an aggressor to overtake soverign land is a big no-no to the UN
Which is why Israel was stopped from annexing East Jerusalem and the West Bank right? It also explains why the US was not allowed to invade and occupy Syria.
While this may be a desired goal of Netanyahus government, his support by Israelis is dwindling. Let's not forget Hamas's desired goals too. In the future, hopefully a more progressive Israeli government echos the United States policy more closely for a 2 state solution.
I'm not sure what a comm is, I'm just commenting on a thread that appears in my "Hot" list. That sounds distasteful and warmongering. I don't think violence or death threats should ever be supported. Hopefully humanity can learn from this disgusting statement. A defensive pact, which NATO is, does not apply aggression towards sovereign nations.
it is, colonialism isn't going to be defeated with peace and flowers, i hope israel gets bombed until the last zionist is dead and the state is torn apart by their "neighbors" who they've been tormenting for decades with their "preemptive" missile strikes on civilian infrastructure
NATO is a defensive pact
yeah, i bet the people living in yugoslavia, libya, syria, etc loved getting defensive peace bombs dropped on their head
you're disgusting, you put civility above all because you're a coward who enjoys living off other's suffering while acting high and mighty about it
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." This resonates particularly well with me! This is why the injustices imposed by Russia in Ukraine need to be met with staunch resistance. Ukrainian sovereignty must be protected from injustice! I'll continue reading.
Haven't gotten to that part yet, but, "We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed," is a great support for Ukrainian resistance to Russian aggression! Thank you for highlighting this important textualization!
Not quite, theres a lot to parse through, but it's got excellent extensionary examples defending Ukraine's right to soverign governance. I appreciate pointing me to this abundant resource!
All it takes is a short read of UN documents, go ahead and read. I'll leave this here to guide you: https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/sites/www.un.org.securitycouncil/files/part_i_2022_mps_of_ukraine_0.pdf
"the United
Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) briefed the Council on the allegations of violations of international human rights law and of international humanitarian law in the context of the Russian Federation’s armed attack on Ukraine."
It definitely highlights Russia as the aggressor in this war. Their decisions alone sparked the conflict and their decision to pull out will be their only saving grace. I want better for the Russian people, they deserve better. I visited St. Petersburg and this young lady was going on about the government failing to provide to it's people. To the point where frozen pipes burst in her living accomodations. That winter she had to rely on burning wood in a barrel to keep warm. If the Russian government cared for it's people, such a situation wouldn't have happened.
Russia has lost 87% of its deployed troops by recent estimates, so fortunately it's increasingly looking like the only way Russia can "win" is by saving face and removing their troops from occupied Ukrainian territories, including Crimea.
If you seriously believe that 87% of russian troops have been lost you need to take a long hard look at why you think that’s true. Like think about it, if theyve lost that many troops then why haven’t the battle lines shifted in any meaningful way basically all year ? Why is there no outrage and overflowing graveyards, or increased mobilization in Russia if thats the case ?
Seriously like whatever side of the conflict you’re on aside, if you want any intellectual credibility you gotta think about that one
Deployed troops, not troop reserves. The estimates are fairly accurate and have been fact checked by multiple intelligence groups. There's burn pits for the bodies of dead Russians, don't exactly need a graveyard when they go up in smoke.
Source: “intelligence agencies” that you don’t even name or provide a link to
Evidence: it’s all been burned and so doesn’t exist. The fact the evidence doesn’t exist is proof that it’s true.
The 87% is from the US latest estimate of 315,000 casualties. This lines up fairly well with Ukrainian reports, as well as UK, and AUS reports. Fortunately burn pits are hard to hide from satellite imagery.
Link me something about these satellite images that show “burn pits”
Unfortunately my access to these images is limited due to the sensitive nature of the military optics involved, however in the future, the ICC will judiciate these war crimes, and the evidence will likely see public eyes.
So what you're saying is that some people claim there are photos? Then the evidence isn't photos but testimony until those photos are produced
Yessir, the evidence should see public eyes in due time.
lol, right after we get those beheaded baby pics
Even without those images, the documented attrocities by both Hamas and the IDF are abhorrent. Needless loss of life is terrible and should be condemned. I'm glad I live in a country that openly condemns the violence facing civilians in the region.
You are such a fed, Jesus. My point is that Israel makes up evidence and the US regularly supports its inventions. See Joe pretending those baby pictures exist.
Joe did not confirm these photos exist, he did acknowledge that it had been relayed to him they exist. He stands firm on trust, but verify, which is an important aspect of honing policy decisions.
Joe claimed to have seen the pictures
He either misspoke or straight up lied because he said he saw the pictures, not he was told pictures exist or the picture was described to him.
It's possible it was a result of his diagnosed stutter, he's not exactly the most eloquent speaker I'll admit, but it'd be wrong to judge someone based on a speech impediment.
Laughing at a disability is not something you should take lightly.
Excellent, I'll laugh with you! Laughter produces endorphins and may contribute to more positive input. This community is quite hostile!
I hope you're laughing, cause this has to be a bit
I refuse to believe you're serious and not a bit. No one could seriously talk like this let alone believe what they're saying
If you could define bit like I asked, maybe I could inform you if this equates it? I'm really just trying to get people to use reason and logic to draw conclusions and present those in public discourse. Does that match the definition?
Interesting, however you failed to define bit. Do you mean bit as in comedy sketch? If so, that's an incredibly uncommon use of the word, and furthermore wrong for this context.
You know what a bit is
Do I? There's plenty of differing definitions and you haven't provided enough context to know which one's in use here.
You're online enough to make like half the total commemts in this thread. You know what a bit is. And may add, its a great one. You're hilarious and i love it, and i admire the commitment
Your country has consistently threatened mine with sanctions and even military actions the second Nelson Mandela became sworn in as president, all the way to the present.
Also, "attrocities"
Just like how the ICC got cold feet after Isisrael was reported to the ICC by South Africa because
Wait so in your concept of this war, you see the US as a disinterested neutral observer?
Putler woke up one day and his omelette was burnt slightly, so he ordered the sacking of Kiev.
Honestly understandable sometimes its the smallest thing that sets you off, could see myself doing the same
This really depends on the war/conflict being discussed, but generally speaking the US's global policy is to support democracy and the humane treatment of humans. Respecting this general stance, it's easy to back Ukraine in a defensive manor, protecting the sovereign control from foreign Russian aggression.
This is a bit?
As in a 1 or a 0? Generally speaking quantum dynamics dictates a gray area is more in line with today's reasoning.
Goddamn it
No need to be hostile, please refrain from the use of language, it doesn't promote thoughtful debate.
01001111 01101000 00100000 01100100 01100001 01101101 01101110 00100000 01101101 01100010
Thank you, I was hungry for some bytes! Nom, nom.
consider biting down on a bullet instead
Fuck, I remember you now, you're that fucker who made it like two comments into defending that ridiculous thesis a few months ago before turning around and crying to some other instance that I said something that I plainly didn't. I don't remember exactly what it was. I think I discussed the DPRK, but there was something else to it too.
I won't continue a discussion with someone using that type of language. Please refrain from language that does not promote thoughtful discourse.
This is such a pathetic line from someone who cannot contradict the assumption that the US are the good guys. The only time I ever saw you change your position was when you went from going "yeah, some of those other times were bad, but they are good now!" to "the Vietnam War was in defense of democracy".
Absolute fucking clown. I hope you're a fed because it means they are wasting some of their subversion budget paying incompetents like you.
Once again, your use of language is a disgrace to meaningful debate. Please learn some civility in dealing with these matters, it'll pay out dividends down the road.
Your fetishism of PG speech to defend the bloodiest empire in history is a disgrace to humanity and common decency. I'll take my chances falling afoul of the tenets of your Debate God.
I'm an atheist, there is no God. That being said, being kind and listening is important to public discourse and should be encouraged full stop.
Being kind to imperialists is being cruel to their victims.
ZENZ ZENZ ZENZ
Are you okay? Your record may be zkipping.
LMAO. Thanks for the laughs at least.
You dont know who zenz is huh?
Loser
So zero unaligned sources.
You're welcome to cite alternatives! I'll hear your arguments!
You're the one making the claim, dipshit.
I won't discuss further if you're going to use unproductive language in this discourse. Thanks for understanding!
Satre was right about fascists like you.
I'm about as far from a fascist as it comes, but to each their own. Democratic debate is a core belief of mine.
Fascists, known for being completely honest about their commitment to democracy...
Fascism is at odds with the democratic process, I'm not sure how you can begin to equate the two.
Lol
Interesting take! Falls short with the fascist claim.
Incorrect
Which intelligence groups? Surely ones with actual credibility, right? Not the ones that lied about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction. Not the ones that lied about covid being a Chinese bioweapon while murdering their own citizens because doing something to protect people from covid would reduce profits. Not the ones that lied about Hamas beheading babies. Any intelligence group that ever spread any of those lies has zero credibility.
US, UK, AUS, and Germany for example. Good cooroboration by nations acting independently. Trust but verify holds true.
Aside: Trumps handling of the Coronavirus was abhorrent. He in no way resonates the beliefs of the majority of Americans. He didn't win by plurality.
So ones with no credibility as I just demonstrated. Verify that they've lied to you in the past, but trust that they won't this time.
How was Trump's handling of covid any different than Biden's? They both pushed the strategy of doing less testing so we have less cases. Vaccine uptake was abysmal under both, and will only get worse now that vaccines have gone from being free to costing almost $200. The majority of Americans have been gathering without masks at places like restaurants since day 1 because corporate media has constantly said sacrificing people for the economy is good, and no public official has even attempted to do anything to stop that. Trump's covid response was bipartisan from the start.
Actually many American's chose to wear masks, including myself, based on public health guidance. There's definitely some inadvisable decisions made by those largely under the Trump umbrella, but they're an outlier that make for entertaining news segments.
Yeah, the people under the Trump umbrella were pretty bad. Remember when they spat in the face of science and public health to cut the isolation period for covid cases in half because delta airlines complained about losing money? It's crazy that some people don't condemn them for that and tragic that there were never any criminal charges for such an incredible abuse of power.
There's been a lot of condemnation handed out for their actions, not sure why you'd think otherwise?
That was an example of Biden's covid response. We agree that Trump's administration should be condemned for its handling of covid. It seems we also agree that Biden's administration should be condemned for its handling of covid.
I read this multiple times over and it's still not making sense, care to reiterate?
You singled out Trump as the one president with a bad covid response. I asked how Biden's covid response was any different and you still talked about Trump. I presented an example of a terrible covid response from Biden and you agreed it should be condemned.
I think either I mistyped or you misinterpreted what I wrote, but it's getting late, and I'll have to reassess in the morning.
I really don’t mean this in a condescending way, and I understand why someone consuming certain kinds of media might think this… but this is truly delusional. So wildly at odds with the reality of the situation that you would probably be better served just not reading about the conflict at all than by reading whatever it is you’ve been reading.
I intake media from all sides, it's important to know the scope of propaganda coming from every outlet. Fortunately there's enough sources to corroborate the information I've relayed here. For the Russian propaganda machine, the same cannot be said. How's Prigozhin doing?
What do you understand as propaganda? And how do you designate what is and what isnt (If you do)
Propaganda is rhetoric designed to produce support for or against particular decisions/actions. Russian propaganda is shaped to meet Putin's goals, but easily disproven and consistently, blatantly false.
Sounds kinda like kinda what you're trying to do here. Would you agree?
I'm spurring debate in a conflict ridden world. It's important to understand and discuss all sides, but to maintain an understanding of historical context to guide this discourse.
How do you differentiate between propaganda and "spurring debate"?
As usual:
Propaganda generally originates from a state and is one sided. Debate can originate between any two individuals.
Under your own definition earlier propaganda would apply to individuals as well, not only states. Also I'd disagree that propaganda is one sided. Good propaganda encompasses and undermines other viewpoints.
As for spurring debate and maintaining an understanding for historical context. How do you contextualize among others things like this:
Biden predicting in 1997 what would happen if NATO expands https://www.c-span.org/video/?86974-1/nato-expansion If Biden knew that Russia wouldn't tolerate NATO expansion, why push for it anyway if war is on the table?
Putin being handselected by Clinton and Yeltsin https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-s-a-solid-man-declassified-memos-offer-window-into-yeltsin-clinton-relationship/29462317.html How does he go from good guy to bad guy in such a short span of time? What changed?
The leaked nuland phone call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk38Jk_JL0g
1997 was 26 years ago, much can change in this timeframe. However, It's also a blink of an eye on the geologic timeline.
yet it didn't, curious
I mean history show otherwise, so that's a strange conclusion to draw.
Yes and I asked you what changed and if you can contextualize. You yourself understand that historical context is important. After all ignoring historical context would rob this conflict of it's meaning, no? Or are you one of those rubes that believes Putin ordered an attack out of his own volition?
There's plenty of historical context to cover. Like how Ukraine became the breadbasket feeding the Soviets in the USSR at the expense of their own population.
Sure but you're ignoring that the Soviet Union got dissolved and had a friendly western handpicked succesor at that point. So no more threat to UA, no? NATOs purpose was also a reaction to the creation of Soviet Russia, but what was it's purpose after the dissolution of the SU? Why join and expand NATO when everyones friendly now?
If everyone was friendly, why did Ukraine not give Russia their soverign land? The people of Ukraine voted for Zelensky fighting Russian influence for this exact reason. NATO continues to exist to promote stability and peace in the EU full stop. They're a defensive pact to deter outside aggression. Ukraine believes joining this pact will protect them from Russian aggression. Much like Finland and Sweden. Come on now, even Switzerland has chosen the side of Ukraine here.
Everyone was friendly right after the dissolution of the SU. With the prospect of NATO expansion and initially friendly Russia getting declined 3 times into the alliance they added 1 and 1 together.
Zelenski got voted for because he promised an end to the civil war in donbas https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955 https://www.france24.com/en/20190416-russian-speakers-ukraine-candidate-talking-language
Like in Yugoslavia?
Zelensky was voted for many reasons, this is surely a component of it! His charismatic effect and desire for sovereign governance are others.
Yeah but the protection of the Russian minority was a key mandate.
You want to talk about historical context yet fail to contextualize anything shown to you. Your "spurring debate" is actually just bad propaganda
Exactly! Ukraine's goals aim to unify a diverse population! Majority and minority alike. It's a beautiful resistance movement towards outside Russian aggression negatively impacting the lives of the Russian minority in Eastern Ukraine!
I wonder why and how that "outside Russian aggression" came about
To my knowledge it was a direct policy decision from Putin. It'd be nice to have a free and fair election to see some positive change towards this poor decision making.
I wonder why that policy decision was made
Similar to the reasons Moldova, Georgia, and the Kuril Islands were occupied. Russian expansionism.
NATO expansion*
NATO only expands with mutual agreement between the parties involved. If a sovereign country feels the need to join NATO, just follow their reasoning to learn about the historical context.
NATO was a reaction to Soviet Russia and the Soviet Union was a reaction to NATO. If the Soviet Union fell, who was the great enemy? What was it's purpose, if not for keeping western global hegemeny. NATO historically has always been the agressing force. Learn about history to get a proper context, lib.
The Soviet Union came well before NATO was founded, but nice try.
Soviet Union 1922 NATO 1949 Warsaw pact 1955
Exactly! These are important dates to understanding the current state of international relations.
Do you read any Chinese state media? Eg Global Times.
Yes, albeit with translations, so it may not be a perfect representation of the language.
Actually, they lost 114.7% of all deployed troops by recent estimates: https://www.minusrus.com/en
... that sounds plausible right?
I'm not sure why you're citing a false statistic. Doesn't really communicate much to me.
It's because it comes from the Ukrainian ministry of defense, it's official Ukrainian data
The capabilities of Ukraine to be able to make these assessments are lacking due to the chaos Russian forces decided to bring to their country. I would take their numbers with a grain of salt, requiring corroboration, however the true numbers likeli lie somewhere in the middle of the highest and lowest casualty counts emminated by intelligence.
You're starting with a conclusion and working backwards.
And following the steps each way to illuminate important insight in an oddly Putin supporting community.
Lol
I mean he kills, or attempts to kill off opposition, think Alexi Navalny, in an effort to remain in power. Not exactly free and fair elections, but I do hope change is coming! I believe the Russian people deserve a democratic process.
K
Thank you for reiterating and assisting getting this important message across. 315,000 casualties is no joke. This needless loss is directly attributable to Russian aggression.
Least bad faith fascist.
Care to elaborate? I'd like to hear your thoughts!
You're lying about that
That doesn't exactly elaborate on your claim, so let me know if you'd like to provide more input.
This is dangerous Russian propaganda because according to the Ukrainian ministry of defense they actually lost over 100%
They also destroyed over 100% of tanks and artillery, the videos of Russian tanks advancing is actually Kremlin dezinformatsiya AI generated fakes
Russia clearly won, but even if your interjection is plausible. Not if we (Arabs) succeed in dragging the US into another losing war in the Middle East. They are already abandoning Ukraine for Israel. Just imagine if we managed to get troops in Yemen. The US is exercising restraint with Yemen for a reason, already spread too thin and just came out of two losing wars, and we will keep triggering it until it bites.
Not really, the US has been pumping the breaks on Israeli aid because of the indiscriminate bombings in Gaza. The US believes the civilians in Gaza have a right to their territory as a 2 state solution is desired.
PENTAGON TAPS “TIGER TEAM” TO RUSH WEAPONS TO ISRAEL
literally yesterday. I know you're trying to still believe the US Government/Biden has any morality here but they don't. Stop listening to the lies of politicians, you are being misled and now you're spreading disinformation in service of ethnic cleansing and imperialism.
I'll just leave this here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/blinken-urges-israel-to-comply-with-international-law-and-spare-civilians-in-war-against-hamas
Actions are more important than words. The U.S. is going out of its way to expedite the artillery needed to continue Israel's indiscriminate bombing of civillians in its ongoing genocidal campaign against Palestinians.
Please I am begging you do not take these organizations at face value- read what the poster above you sent and recognize the distance between the statement "You need to comply with international law more closely" and the action: here is a way for us to get you bombs for you to use more quickly.
If on one hand part of the state apparatus is signaling for "restraint" but the state is accelerating its ability to provide weapons that its calling for restraint in use of the actual stance is clear: what you're doing is fine by the state.
It's alright, we can agree to disagree. Biden has criticized the Netanyahu government for their treatment of Palestinians. More should be done to ensure their safety, hence the conditial provisions of arms, but the United States policy stance has clear ambitions for a 2 state solution. Neither Hamas, nor the Netantahu government are okay with this, however it remains the United States ambition. I truly hope we can see this conflict resolved in my lifetime.
20,000 Palestinians are dead because of Joe Biden. You can’t spin it any other way. The US under Biden is guilty of genocide.
As far as I'm aware, the US has not fired any weapons on Gaza soil. There's been some defensive strikes to the north in Lebanon, but that's it. Seems like a stretch to call the United States complicit when it's goals do not align with the Netantahu government.
The vetoes are enough. The weapons and aid sent just make them one step away from pulling the trigger themselves. The US will be held accountable for this genocide.
Vetoing a ceasefire in an active war does not change states policy and actions, but you can spin this however you'd like and we can agree to disagree. There's nothing wrong with disagreement, it just spurs the need for thoughtful discourse.
The US could have ended it 2 months ago, but instead it sends weapons and stops any international attempt at stopping it. It is complicit and all the resistance groups across the Middle East agree. US interests in the Middle East and military are legitimate targets. We can agree to disagree, but the US government will be held accountable for its war crimes.
As any nation/organization should be. The US is not exempt from international law, but fortunately has a remarkably solid argument in defense of its actions here.
Might is right is only a valid argument when you know you will never be weak. International Law applies equally to all otherwise.
It would be naive to think the strength of a nation in international relations is not a waxing/waning manor. It's of upmost importance to maintain policy that echos the opinions of a collective humanity.
Yet, the US-Israel acts with complete disregard to International Law and human values it as-if they will be strong forever.
Not true, the US and Israel act independently. Their democratic elections alter policy over time as new elected officials foster youthful debate and thus change officials policy. It's not a static system, but instead a dynamically evolving one.
Yet, the US is in complete lockstep defending Israel, regardless of which party voted in and regardless of which International law Israel is violating.
Honest question, do you know that you are lying? The connection between US financial, military and political support and Israeli crimes against Palestinians is clear to the whole world.
The US supports a 2 state solution and provisions for humanitarian aid due to the atrocities committed by both Hamas and the IDF. The US favors peace and stability.
If the US ever favoured peace and stability it would have had the 2-state solution done in the 1990s. The US always wanted the conflict to be a managed conflict, but never ending.
While the US has its stated policy, it cannot interfere with sovereign authority without unilateral justification. A 2 state solution needs agreement from Palestinians and Israelis alike. I truly hope this can come to fruition to end the needless loss of life.
do you think this also applies to the Donetsk Republic?
The Donetsk Republic is not a sovereign nation and has never been recognized to be.
It is and has been recognized.
What international body has recognized this separatist movement?
The UN charter gives them the right to self determination. As a Russian minority in a majority-Ukrainian state they have the right to do so.
It's possible an separate representing body could be a part of a Ukrainian republic. That's an interesting thought and I'd love to discuss it further!
The only discussion the West understands is at the end of a gun barrel. Otherwise nothing but hypocrisy and double standards.
I mean imagine if I said "It’s possible an separate representing body could be a part of the Russian Federation. That’s an interesting thought and I’d love to discuss it further!" about Ukraine.
Kazakhstan mean anything to you?
Yes. My country is building a major renewable project there
"Acwa Power to build 1GW wind energy plant in Kazakhstan" https://www.agbi.com/articles/acwa-power-to-build-1gw-wind-energy-plant-in-kazakhstan/
"Saudi Arabia collaborates with Kazakhstan to improve energy partnership" https://www.arabnews.com/node/2320786/business-economy
Excellent, renewable energy is the way of the future. Now give back the land and reaffirm Kazakh soverignty.
When did Saudi Arabia take any Kazakh land?
I'll admit, you stumped me. Point me towards where I can read about Saudi involvement in Kazakhstan.
You brought it up
They support energy cooperation, sounds like a win-win.
Of course. Unlike the US, Saudi Arabia is actually serious about climate change.
The US has been making substantial steps towards reducing emissions. The amount of money funding fusion research right now is incredible! My brother currently works for a private fusion research company and getting to tour was a thrill in itself!
That’s not even true
Environmentalists slam Biden admin's oil and gas auctions during COP28 https://www.axios.com/2023/11/29/biden-administration-oil-gas-lease-auctions-cop28
The US is biggest emitter and producer and will only be more so under Biden’s plan
More planned future emissions too
Biden's build back better plan is working towards meeting COP climate goals. Not sure how you can argue otherwise, but please discuss to enlighten me!
I’m betting you my second house that in 10 years there will still be no high speed rail. Even the amount set aside for local manufacturing is paltry next to what the US sends to Israel to bomb Palestinians.
Your country exists to serve Israel not you.
I've personally seen the infrastructure build out for HSR, it's progressing remarkably fast. Almost all of the at grade crossings are nearing completion for the San Joaquin valley corridor! Exciting news!
Who are you lying to? This is just sad. Egypt will have a HSR before you do, but at least people in the US can console themselves that their government is sending billions to “defend freedom and democracy”.
That's fine, the rate of development is rapid given the geographic, political, and private property questions involved. It's a unique process, but one that I fully support and am happy to see quickly roll out!
Do you know that it has been “coming soon” since 2008?
I understand you have nothing left but optimism, but come on be realistic.
Do you understand what it takes to make an Engineering project tick? Also theses plenty of more red tape around the US rollout of HSR than the alternatives you presented.
Yes, central planning and budgeting.
People in the US assume the rest of the world is a lawless hell hole when many countries including China have stronger protections against eminent domain.
The real reason you haven’t gotten HSR isn’t technical, is political. Israel has first-dips on the US budget. Reminds me of something someone I knew used to say: “the American will sell his kids before cutting aid to Israel”.
I mean I brought up the political aspect. The auto manufacturers and oil lobby have their own input in democratic discourse.
Neither is Ukraine.
So why did Joe Bellend and Obomba overthrow a democratically elected Yakunovich 10 years ago? Or joined up with
in Lybia? Or propped up ISIS over a decade ago and try to overthrow Assad, creating a refugee crisis? Or attempt a failed coup in Xinjiang? Or hell, even in December of 2019 overthrow MAS in Bolivia? Just a few recent examples.
Sure as shit sounds like anything except "interfering with sovereign authority without unilateral justification".
Nothing defensive about it. Israel is the aggressor and the US is the enabler.
Sounds like we can agree to disagree, there's nothing wrong with that when democracy reigns!
Being genocided isn't a disagreement. It is amazing how you can be so racist and defend bombardment against the Palestinians in particular but oppose it against the Ukrainians.
I haven't brought race into this discourse and plan to keep it that way. This is discussing country policy decisions.
but racism explains why you are defending a genocide against the Palestinians. You would be singing a completely different tune if the people being murdered were relatively civilized relatively european.
where does your double standards come from, unless you don't see the Palestinians as equally humans?
I disagree, the promotion of a 2 state solution in Israel parallels the states policy for the protection of Ukrainian sovereignty.
So you agree with Russia annexing parts of Eastern Ukraine? Just looking for consistency.
No, I disagree with any form of forced annexation. Hench the support of a 2 state solution in Israel and the protection of Ukrainian sovereignty.
but the 2-state solution itself is annexation. If you are okay with it in Palestine then you should be okay with it in Ukraine. Otherwise you are being a hypocrite either due to historical ignorance or racism.
Please explain to me how a 2 state solution is in affect, annexation?
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. All the dots on this map are ethnically cleansed Palestinian towns and villages. If this happening to the Palestinians is okay with you, being forced from their homes with no right to return, then it happening to the Ukrainians should also be okay with you.
The US recognizes these attrocities and thus favors a 2 state solution to end this war and preexisting conflict.
The US does not recognize these atrocities and never did. If it had, it would have bombed Tel Aviv decades ago, or at least sanctioned them instead of sending them billions in aid.
Two wrongs do not make a right. The US favors a 2 state solution.
That's your opinion but if you will die on the hill of "Two wrongs do not make a right" then apply it to east Ukraine and let Russia keep it.
Fortunately the defense of sovereign Ukrainian territory is not a wrong. The UN backs this claim directly in its charter.
And Hamas and other Palestinian resistance groups are legitimate per the UN charter yet you called them terrorists. You aren't consistent.
Terrorism and resistance groups are not mutually exclusive.
Neither is racism and imperialism. Isn't it ironic that the countries that don't recognize Palestine are the same countries that consider Hamas terrorists. Almost like they are racist and imperialist.
Hamas has committed terrorist acts. It'd be naive to think they don't support terrorism. Frankly it was the spark that started the most recent developments with the conflict.
Again, more ignorance. Not only being racist to 87% of the world population who don't see Hamas as terrorists. But also completely disregarding and ignoring the context that led Hamas to respond on October 7th. Do you even know why it was called Operation Al-Aqsa Flood?
This happened on October 4th! Worshippers were attacked in Al-Aqsa Mosque https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/4/israeli-settlers-storm-al-aqsa-mosque-complex-on-fifth-day-of-sukkot
Typical racists, always ignoring that they attacked first, and only focusing on the response.
It's clear the intentions were to strike terror in an effort to bring attention to the apartheid. This does not detract from the fact that it was still terrorism.
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist while the KKK is a tax-exempt religious organization. Your definition of terrorism is racist, and boils down to "when non-whites fight back".
US policy towards the apartheid in South Africa changed over the years. This highlights the importance of being open minded!
The US supported apartheid in South Africa until the bitter end, even when the rest of the world stood in opposition to it. Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist until 2008.
Your government gets a lot wrong. So I can safely ignore it.
The beauty of a democratic government is the nature of shifts in policy. It may not be able to act as swiftly as an authoritarian regime, but it does allow all sides to get their time to share input. I've never claimed the US to be the arbitor of morality, they've made their fair share of mistakes. Fortunately the democratic process allows us to Garner a better understanding as a whole, and thus work towards the solutions that being forth the most common good. Very utilitarian in nature.
Enjoy your democracy while I enjoy my high speed rail. At least until Israel orders you to bomb us.
After traveling to the US once and actually having the Acela train I was on die during the trip, is plenty of argument against whatever political system you have
Watch Saudi's HSR and weep https://youtu.be/uXtaWSnmvTg
High Speed Rail is in a Renaissance phase here in the US, it's incredibly exciting! I'm not sure how this fits the current discourse here though.
My brother in Zeus. Saudi's HSR started after and finished before California's HSR. Your government would sooner loot the project for copper wires and steel beams to sell, so that it has money to send to Israel, than allow it to finish.
Your entire government's purpose is to finance and aid Israel, everything else is coincidental.
Well there's a difference in governance. If the US was not a democracy with protections for private property, HSR would've likely been complete. Not to mention the vast differences in terrain which pose difficult engineering questions to be answered.
If the US is a democracy then explain this
Well more specifically it's a democratic republic, which would answer this question, however the future will likely bring change as votes are cast!
Do the people know this?
I would hope so as it's a core part of the public curriculum!
And they still vote knowing this?
Absolutely, a vote is a vote and should be encouraged and protected as such.
Even a vote for a 3rd party candidate?
My vote for Bernie was counted, so yes even for a 3rd party candidate. It would be nice to work towards a proportional representative vote, some states have implement this, but I'd like to see it on the federal scale.
Ah yes just
harder sweaty. Pick from "War hawk cracker one" or "War hawk cracker two".
CLIMAX INTO THE BALLOT BOX.
🔻 🔻 🔻
This really opened my mind, thank you. It's wild what westerners will want to believe. I'm assuming that lemmy isn't big enough for bots yet.
“You stop killing people now, ok?”, I said to the active shooter after handing them an AK-47 and 2000 rounds of munition, as well as hand grenades.
I'm glad I could help to open your mind to change! I appreciate the thoughtful debate, we need more of this in public discourse!
You still haven't been able to back up your claim that the USA is putting the breaks on it's aid of Isreal because of the genocide. All you've done is point to the US going "we'd like it if you slowed down on the genocide, but we'll 100 support you if you don't" and tried to equivocate that as being the same, when it really isn't.
I said pumping the breaks. There's still legitimate concern for the removal of Hamas as the acting government of Gaza. Neither Hamas, nor the Netantahu backed Israeli government want a 2 state solution, however this remains the US states policy. Whoever can broker a deal that affirms a 2 state solution here will hopefully produce meaningful change towards this conflict.
Doesn't change anything about my point.
Incorrect. And you don't see the USA sending endless, unconditional, military aid to Palestine so they can remove the Israeli government.
Hamas explicitly calls for a 2 state solution you lying ghoul.
Not true, not until the US recognises the state of Palestine.
Going to be pretty hard to do while Isreal and the USA are committed to genocide.
US aid is conditional to congressional support. Currently there's debate on the issue at hand. Doesn't remove the impact humanitarian aid has provided in the region. The 2 state solution has always been the desired solution here in the states. That position has been unwavering.
So you lied and you admit it.
You've already been told that the USA doesn't hold the two state solution and why.
The United States official policy is for a 2 state solution, I'm not sure how you can see it any other way. Feel free to present your arguments though!
I have, you ignored them and reasserted your thesis
I'm glad I could present you with thoughtful alternatives to your beliefs. It's important for civil discourse. This has been a largely productive and positive discussion, thank you for your input and civility!
Those are some subpar drawing skills if I've ever seen any. You might need some lessons. The whole meme format doesn't really make sense to me, however I'll admit it's possible autism may be at play.
Now I'm just confused, but that's okay! This has been a wonderful discussion regarding the attrocities committed by Russian aggression in Ukraine. I'm glad I could spark some thoughtful debate here in lemmygrad! It's been lacking non affirming voices as far as I can tell.
No, but if you'd like to make that conclusion, it's well within your right to do so. This is why I support our democratic process and the debate it garnishes!
Did anyone ever tell you the saying "actions speak louder than words" as a kid? Now apply that to state actors. No matter what words their US uses, no matter their criticism, their actions are very clear.
Yes absolutely. That's why it's imperative to understand when Putin said we're not going to invade Ukraine, while staging troops along the Ukraine border, then choosing to in invade the foreign country after the Olympics concluded. Understanding here highlights the wrongful actions Russia knowingly committed, at the direction of Putin, against a sovereign nation. The international community has decided to push back against these attrocities and the ICC will adjudicate the war crimes committed in the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
John McCain and Lindsay Graham told neo nazis to go cement the damage done by the 2014 coup and they went and electrocuted babushkas through the kidneys. They build grandmas different in Donetsk so she kept on fighting. Online Ukraine supporters don't have it in them. I'm surprised you haven't moved back to trashing 🇻🇪
https://sputnikglobe.com/20230721/the-truth-about-ukrainian-war-crimes-against-donbass-civilians-1112031958.html
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/12/11/ukrainian-maidan-massacre-false-flag/
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/07/17/the-lord-of-the-underworld-meet-the-paratrooper-from-north-carolina-who-orchestrated-the-war-in-ukraine/
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/02/03/how-a-network-of-nazi-propagandists-helped-lay-the-groundwork-for-the-war-in-ukraine/
https://mronline.org/2022/06/13/how-monsters-who-beat-jews-to-death-in-1944-became-americas-favorite-freedom-fighters-in-1945/
Care to provide corroborating evidence to back these articles? They read like pure propaganda and fail to cite claims.
I'm sorry, is there something about hyperlinks which confuses you?
You need to have a little number linking to a footnote, or else it doesn't count lmfao
Nothing wrong with hyperlinks, however a footnote section makes for a better format. Many of these hyperlinks don't even relate to the word that was linked. It just makes it look as if something backs the claim being made. They're littered everywhere and the few I clicked, didn't have much relevance. Footnotes make it easier to see where each stems from and allow the reader to understand potential bias easier. Care to link to peer reviewed academic articles on one of the subjects? I'd be glad to dig in, but so far I'm reading propaganda sprinkled with a few true statements to produce a sense of legitimacy. It's misinformation campaign 101.
Hm, very scintillating, old sport! There's just one problem. You're making unverified claims to me!
I will require each hyperlink that you consider misleading, along with the passage where it is found.
Because I recall each and every one was related to the passage it was found in.
There are no peer reviewed scientific papers about the Maidan, you complete dolt. It's a color revolution, not a pond of tadpoles.
Instead what we have are Ukrainian sources you have trusted before admitting what their enemies already told them, far too late.
Get to work!
I won't entertain bad faith arguments, but I'd recommend you read up more on the Maidan to gain some historical context. You'll likely make some alterations to your opinion, and shatter bits of your worldview. Also there's plenty of peer reviewed academic papers on the Maidan, e.g. https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1zkjxq0.11
Lol you think a social science paper is the same as a study. You're such a specious thinker. Did you really just search Maidan on Google scholar to try to impress me? I'm going to bend you over.
You want to read a book, big boy? Open wide!
https://files.catbox.moe/r7ee47.php
Your history of Ukraine begins 2022. I have more than one-hundred times the depth of knowledge on this subject you do.
I'm not sure why you think commiting to insults has an impact on your claims, but carry on! I'll continue to support thoughtful discourse and debate!
The US is bankrolling the genocide and vetoed the ceasefire. Who are you lying to? The US and its interests are a fair and legitimate targets because of its involvement and complicity in the genocide.
Joe Biden Moves to Lift Nearly Every Restriction on Israel’s Access to U.S. Weapons Stockpile https://theintercept.com/2023/11/25/biden-israel-weapons-stockpile-arms-gaza/
Don’t be fooled. Biden is fully signed up to ethnic cleansing in Gaza https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-gaza-biden-fully-signed-up-genocide
Do you really believe that?
Yes, it's been facted checked by multiple intelligence organizations.
so you don't actually have evidence for this, you just believe the word of the people that have been lying to you for decades straight
It's not hard to intake information from many sources. Some sources are easier to disprove based on claims.
Too hard for you though
No, but I won't lie, information comes in like a firehose in today's day and age with the advent of the internet. It takes time to parse through!
Yeah, I guess I can see why you don't bother to try
I've been at this discourse for hours, there's definitely some effort involved. I appreciate you having open ears and listening! It's important to have open dialogue discussing these matters.
You're just trolling
I do not in fact live under a bridge, but you're welcome to hold steadfast with your opinion.
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Probably buried right next to Iraqi WMDs.
Do you really not experience a moments pause writing this?
Mindfulness and meditation is key to a calm mind.
Feigning illiteracy is not as clever as you seem to think.
I'm not sure how this responds to my comment, but you're welcome to your thoughts, mindfulness is key!
January 1st is a ways away, but I appreciate the countdown to the new year!
Holy fucking shit. Liberalism distilled to an NPC.
Who needs to save face? Ukraine has become the world's street ***** begging everyone for money wherever it goes.
And they'll keep receiving said money because the majority of the United Nations believes Russia is the aggressor. Allowing an aggressor to overtake soverign land is a big no-no to the UN.
Which is why Israel was stopped from annexing East Jerusalem and the West Bank right? It also explains why the US was not allowed to invade and occupy Syria.
While this may be a desired goal of Netanyahus government, his support by Israelis is dwindling. Let's not forget Hamas's desired goals too. In the future, hopefully a more progressive Israeli government echos the United States policy more closely for a 2 state solution.
The United States does not believe in a two state solution and neither do I, death to Israel
Please refrain from the use of this hateful language. It does not promote thoughtful debate.
did you look at the name of the comm?
unlimited death to israel, nato, america, eu, japan, worst korea, the moon and mosquitos
I'm not sure what a comm is, I'm just commenting on a thread that appears in my "Hot" list. That sounds distasteful and warmongering. I don't think violence or death threats should ever be supported. Hopefully humanity can learn from this disgusting statement. A defensive pact, which NATO is, does not apply aggression towards sovereign nations.
it is, colonialism isn't going to be defeated with peace and flowers, i hope israel gets bombed until the last zionist is dead and the state is torn apart by their "neighbors" who they've been tormenting for decades with their "preemptive" missile strikes on civilian infrastructure
yeah, i bet the people living in yugoslavia, libya, syria, etc loved getting defensive peace bombs dropped on their head
you're disgusting, you put civility above all because you're a coward who enjoys living off other's suffering while acting high and mighty about it
Civility promotes thoughtful discourse, full stop.
you don't have thoughts you fucking swine. you're a spigot for regurgitating imperialist propaganda
I think you might benefit from reading letter from Birmingham jail again.
https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html
I can't support Apple's streaming service unfortunately. Their position towards right to repair has painted a dark stain on their reputation.
Fixed the link, please read letter from Birmingham jail.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." This resonates particularly well with me! This is why the injustices imposed by Russia in Ukraine need to be met with staunch resistance. Ukrainian sovereignty must be protected from injustice! I'll continue reading.
Pay attention to what King says about the white moderate.
Haven't gotten to that part yet, but, "We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed," is a great support for Ukrainian resistance to Russian aggression! Thank you for highlighting this important textualization!
You finish it yet?
Not quite, theres a lot to parse through, but it's got excellent extensionary examples defending Ukraine's right to soverign governance. I appreciate pointing me to this abundant resource!
How bout now
Death to Isreal and you personally
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Source?
Lol
All it takes is a short read of UN documents, go ahead and read. I'll leave this here to guide you: https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/sites/www.un.org.securitycouncil/files/part_i_2022_mps_of_ukraine_0.pdf
Cite the part that supports your claim.
Sure,
"the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) briefed the Council on the allegations of violations of international human rights law and of international humanitarian law in the context of the Russian Federation’s armed attack on Ukraine."
That doesn't support your claim at all.
It definitely highlights Russia as the aggressor in this war. Their decisions alone sparked the conflict and their decision to pull out will be their only saving grace. I want better for the Russian people, they deserve better. I visited St. Petersburg and this young lady was going on about the government failing to provide to it's people. To the point where frozen pipes burst in her living accomodations. That winter she had to rely on burning wood in a barrel to keep warm. If the Russian government cared for it's people, such a situation wouldn't have happened.
None of that has any bearing on the point. Source your claim or retract it.
My source was a UN document, see above!
It did not support your claim, as I have airway already told you.
The people who estimated this also estimated that putler died four times since the start of the war.
Who is Putler?