:1984: ugh it doesn't do a whole lot but the devs said your police go plant bugs and stuff. i mean they are surprisingly pacifist otherwise, no arrests, you just blacklist reactionaries from important jobs (or those that aren't "loyal to the state"). it does take some of the pure socialist urban/nation planning away from an otherwise good game. not sure how historically accurate it is, but if bug planting and removal of responsibilities is as "police state stasi" as this gets i won't be too upset in the long run. beats murdering citizens in the streets for minor crimes

    • EthicalHumanMeat [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Sounds hilarious, actually. Imagine if every college Republican failed all their classes.

      Honestly especially appropriate in post-WWII Germany.

      • LeninWeave [none/use name]
        ·
        3 years ago

        I think they thought I meant little kids in school rather than, you know, this.

        As always, I'm sure there were overreaches of authority, and I'm sure there were also times when they were correct (as you say, post-WW2 Germany certainly wouldn't have produced ideal conditions). This is from a half-remembered passage I read in Stasi State or Socialist Paradise, so take it all with a grain of salt regardless.

        Edit: they did not. I think they're just angry and taking it out here by interpreting everything I say in the most uncharitable possible way.

    • LeninWeave [none/use name]
      ·
      3 years ago

      When did I call it "lol whatever"? My point is that the actual activities of the Stasi, while obviously not always above board, were also not nearly what people in the West think they were.

        • LeninWeave [none/use name]
          ·
          3 years ago

          exactly what people in the west think they were

          People in the West think that the Stasi ran around rounding up anyone who criticized the government and killing/imprisoning them, not that they used unethical pressure tactics to dissuade active political dissidents.

          There's a huge difference between those two. If you wanted, I'm sure you could also find better and worse things the Stasi did. The point is that they're not the cartoon villains they're portrayed as in American propaganda.

          I don’t know how you diminish that but it’s not done honestly

          I'm literally not diminishing anything. I didn't say it was good.

          Edit: "just examining everything your children say" University student political dissidents, not primary school children.

          Edit 2: this is all from a passage I read a while back in Stasi State or Socialist Paradise, so it's possible I'm misremembering details anyway. Anyone who's reading this and is interested in the subject should take it from the book, rather than from me.

            • LeninWeave [none/use name]
              ·
              3 years ago

              The point is that they’re not the cartoon villains they’re portrayed as in American propaganda.

              This is what diminishing means.

              That's just factual. Of course the Americans exaggerate the crimes of their enemies.

              You’re painting the picture of a malevolent all powerful and omnipresent state that interferes in all aspects of daily life to the point of trying to destroy children who wrongthink.

              If you read my edits (edit: and didn't intentionally interpret them in the worst possible way), you'd know I'm not talking about "wrong-thinking" children, but adults who are working against the state (that's what "dissidents" means). And I don't think it was good, just that it wasn't quite what people think the Stasi generally did.

              Once again, I suggest Stasi State or Socialist Paradise, because I'm only remembering from a passage of it. It's critical of the Stasi, by the way, not supportive of them.

              Honestly, nothing I've made here is a wild point, especially in the context of this website. I'd appreciate you reading my posts in good faith instead of assuming I'm a psychopath and proceeding with the worst possible interpretation of everything I say.

              • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
                ·
                3 years ago

                Fun fact: the US employs proportionally more of its own citizens to spy on their fellow countrymen than the GDR ever did. They also imprison several orders of magnitude more people.

                • LeninWeave [none/use name]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  They also imprison several orders of magnitude more people.

                  Has anyone (in recent history) actually beat the US on this one?

                  • AlephNull [she/her]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    Unfortunately, a*stralia and its incarceration of aboriginal people (per capita, not raw numbers)

                  • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    You'd have to go back to like early history to beat it. The police state in America is functionally unique in world history.

                • LeninWeave [none/use name]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  “My statement of opinion is actually a fact”

                  Literally nothing in your entire reply actually responds to a single fucking thing I said. All you do is vaguely whine about ‘being interpreted unfavorably’ and ad hominem insults about not participating in good faith.

                  Fuck you. Participating in good faith means not ignoring literally every single fucking word I say, asshole.

                  Well sorry. Just because I didn’t repeat your own words back to you with exactly the same tone and emphasis does not mean you were interpreted dishonestly.

                  There’s nothing more for me to say here because you completely checked out of the argument. You didn’t reply.

                  Alright. I replied exactly as much as I intended to, because I'm already tired of this and I didn't want to get deeper into a debate. "American propaganda about East Germany includes many exaggerations and even falsehoods" is a fact. It's just true.

                  I started typing a reply to the rest, but then realized it was pointless. Let's agree to disagree on the subject of the real Stasi not being as bad as the Stasi in the minds of Americans. Have a good day.

            • comi [he/him]
              ·
              3 years ago

              Destruction as in not spending resources on their education?

              I have a question, how do you organize free education (as in paid for by society), when you have brain drain problems, cause nearby usa pays more cash money?

                • comi [he/him]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  It’s very interesting, you are jumping definitions of your and societal very rapidly. Education, housing and healthcare is society project, not singular ubermensch achievement. So precisely at what point do you think society may intervene, or it should all be left to continue?