It's amazing how americans are just rolling over on this. The government is literally telling you to prepare to get sick and people are like "oh okay". :shrek-pixel-despair:
most of this site that was anti-vax circa November 2020
This is a bit of a straw man
The majority take that I saw on here was along the lines of "I have doubts that a vaccine so rapidly developed under capitalism will necessarily be safe", a take which had evaporated by March as the data rolled in and showed that there weren't significant safety issues. This is not the same as "anti-vax", but I wouldn't disagree that some [vocal] people used that as cover for more genuine anti-vaccine views although I still think a lot of it was slightly over the top contrarian doom posting.
There are still leftists who will let then anti-vaccine takes fly in the name of "anti-pharma" though, and that's not good. It happens in spaces that are adjacent to this site, but fortunately it's been stamped out from here pretty thoroughly (although I still say it fizzled out on its own for the most part once we could see some data on it, and I have no issue with that).
Also a lot of the ‘skepticism’ was about how if the vaccines were anything less than shockingly effective, then the widespread belief that vaccines would end covid was delusional. Which in hindsight…
The point is that treating these things as inevitable is what makes them inevitable. Without the media pushing this for the government, there'd been more support for lockdowns and other pandemic safety measures. And by complaining about people pointing out that this is bad, you're contributing to that narrative of "everyone will get covid" which is just the government doing a big old social murder
And by complaining about people pointing out that this is bad, you’re contributing to that narrative of “everyone will get covid” which is just the government doing a big old social murder
"By buying properties to rent you're contributing to the housing crisis" "taking private jets everywhere causes a tremendous amount of greenhouse gas emissions" "By going around maskless and unvaccinated, you're contributing to the prolonging of the pandemic and possibly killing or disabling the people you come in contact with"
"Wow you're really blaming individuals here, not very leftist of you"
Absolutely baby-brained take, you can still contribute to social murder as an individual. Did I blame the whole thing on you? No. Does that mean you're not contributing? Also no!
So which theory are you referring to? Are you talking about the concept of no ethical consumption under capitalism to try to say there is no such thing as individual responsibility?
In no way does that refer to an opinion. That'sike, yeah, I have to order from Amazon because otherwise i don't have enough to feed my family.
You absolutely are contributing to this narrative. You are on here parroting the everyone will get covid as “what will be inevitable”
Demonstrate to me how it won't be for the plurality at this point. You're rejecting reality.
This is a materially different thing than WANTING it to happen, which obviously I do not.
I simply don't see a next step where a lockdown is effective. This is my own doomposting -- how do we get to your reality? I just don't understand how we get there.
After your edit - they could try anything. A lockdown, with economic support. The media could get out of its own ass and actually provide non-doom viewpoints. Look at possible solutions, weigh options, provide good coverage. They could keep providing tests and shots for free.
They could enact universal healthcare.
They could TRY to do a lot of things.
Living in "Realist Stasis" and accepting inevitability helps nobody.
I'm not saying anything will happen, but literally waiting for everyone to get covid is as you say doomposting and not really helpful
Your statements have effect, especially when what we're talking about is actually just a viewpoint. You are contributing, at least a little bit, to the propaganda.
If you don't it to happen, then why does it appear that you've considered it inevitable?
most of this site that was anti-vax circa November 2020
People were anxious about being guinea pigs because the vaccine was developed so quickly, a process that usualy takes years was reduced to a few months.
The bigger problem is the recent wave of anti-mandate brainworms and unexpected supporters like R. Wolff.
*American/Western liberals, conservatives and "leftists".
edit:
In most "developing" countries, the main complaint against lockdowns is that it causes economic distress. Sadly, neoliberal regimes aren't willing to (or can't even if they wanted to) spend to help their people during lockdowns. The complaints are less about "oh noes I can't go to brunch" and more about "my family is gonna starve.".
US by contrast can give it's people free money :brrrrrrrrrrrr:
It’s amazing how americans are just rolling over on this. The government is literally telling you to prepare to get sick and people are like “oh okay”.
You've missed the plot. You're RIGHT in that the government is jacking off and doing fuckall, but Americans Want This. A plurality in the country is Done with the pandemic, and wouldn't give a shit even if the government actually did something
🤷🏿♂️ tgreenwood is right. If you're left at this point you should want balkanization so the remaining liberal parts of the country could at least be coerced into a shutdown. The country as constituted can no longer respond to crises. There's no use putting humpty back together when we could, instead, break off the kingdom and try again
Because you're the one talking about everywhere other than "liberal areas" like they're a lost cause and unnecessary, therefore the comrades and ordinary people who live there — are stuck there — should just die and deserve to for living there is one of the most Neera Tanden psychopathic brunch lib sentiments ive ever heard said unironically on this website
Start back in March 2020: don't begin the pandemic by saying masks do nothing, don't stop the post office from mailing masks to everyone, actually lock down for a few weeks and materially help people. Make vaccine patents illegal.
If I were put in charge today: lock everything down, give people material aid to get them through a 30-day lockdown, mandate vaccination for everyone who hasn't been vaccinated and boosters for those eligible who haven't received them. Increase public funding for hospitals, mandating that it be used for staff raises and equipment. Increase public funding for testing, ramp up manufacturing of testing. Severely penalize media sources that promote anti-lockdown or anti-pandemic-funding messaging and those that suggest that everyone get covid — make an example of someone, execute the editor and owner of the first media source to do so for treason and biological terrorism. Make vaccine patents illegal.
Edit: I'm pissed off at you because you're suggesting that it's fine that the government does nothing because the hogs want their treats, and for acting like the government doing nothing isn't worth complaining about on leftists dot website. Americans as a whole think what they're told to think; if they're told that we're doing one real lockdown and that's good and if we don't then the economy will collapse and here's $4000 to not leave your house this month, then they'll get on board with it. I'm pissed that you libs want to split the cities away from people in dirty chud land and abandon your vulnerable comrades who live there (like my wife, who is immunocompromised and will die if she gets covid)
I will be happy when you acknowledge that carrying water for the "we're giving up now" narrative the media is pushing makes you a liberal complicit in social murder.
I'm interested in your scenario for taking over now. who would be subject to the 30-day lock down? obviously medical workers have to go to their jobs but do you keep grocery stores open? what about the facilities to produce and process food? what about all of the people who ship that food, do you send in national guard members for those industries?
basically because of how we produce goods in this country you're dealing with these industries that cannot afford to shut down for a month without the systems that support Americans completely crumbling and if you keep them open you're introducing vectors that spread covid and could effectively undermine your efforts
Keep stores 100% closed to the public. Grocery stores, pharmacies, and hardware stores are open with limited, fully-vaccinated (including boosters if eligible), n95-masked staff processing goods for delivery only — if need be, limit household grocery orders to set pre-grouped food bags that include enough calories for each household member to eat for 1-2 weeks, and limit orders to 1x/week. The same limitations apply to facilities that produce and process food and medical equipment. Limit transportation to essential goods only — yes to truckers hauling and unloading foodstuffs, no to truckers hauling funko pops and xboxes.
Hospitals and healthcare facilities also remain open, with the same staff constraints as above. Plan to distribute food and grain from the national reserves if necessary. Tradespeople are limited to emergency work on an as-needed basis (e.g. a vaccinated, masked plumber may go to resedences to fix a catastrophic leak, but may not go to residences to install a new bathroom) — routing for these services is run through a fully-remote call center to ensure that the responding tradespeople are vaccinated.
This person has no solution to the right willing to use violence to impose the society they want to see. The reality is different than whatever nonsensical shit they are proposing.
Like, you have hooting, hollering, gun-toting chuds who have seized control of red states and are imposing their Draconian voting laws. They have sympathizers in every branch of govt. They even run the military and the police force. How are you going to lock down all of these people who will just say no without, in effect, creating 2 Americas? 2 different lands where life is just different.
Fucking typical behavior from some of the clowns on this site lmao. "You don't care about the minorities and poor" tier liberal response. Might as well fucking tell us to vote Joe Byron so he can Build Back Brandon.
The country as constituted can no longer respond to crises
This has always been the case, since at it's founding the US has been a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. The very mechanisms that stamp out popular pressure at the expense of the capitalists also prevent it from responding to crises. It's no accident that all our legislative rules and structures make even passing a simple bill to raise the minimum wage damn near impossible. That's why I have zero hope of stopping climate change outside of a proletarian revolution.
It's one of those infinitely frustrating situations that capitalism gets us into where it wouldn't even have become a serious problem under socialism but now we're locked in, with the media only pressing and consent manufacturing for the shittiest solutions ("Just let everybody get it! Herd immunity!")
Yea, the constant propaganda and suppression kind of fuck people's minds and turn them into obedient mutt. If you look at China, their citizen have a much higher expectation for their government, look at the recent screw up at Xi'an, one women got miscarriage because of hospital deny care, their citizen gone bat shite which caused the government to take action and strip the director of their position. While for American, look at 3k death a day like a statistic. So that's why when the lib or the conservative lecture us about China or any aes nation, call them out for being a hypocrite for trying to eugenics their own population
What are you talking about? Thousands of students and teachers have walked out all ready. Approval of the president is all time low. Americans are opposing this in rhetoric and action.
Who knows really. I haven’t seen any studies or anything but it’d be interesting to see if someone has done a comparison.
In my experience the only thing that gets government to move is line go down, worker strikes, or enough people lighting things on fire. Sometimes even that doesn’t work.
It's amazing how americans are just rolling over on this. The government is literally telling you to prepare to get sick and people are like "oh okay". :shrek-pixel-despair:
:yes-honey-left: most cowed people
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This is a bit of a straw man
The majority take that I saw on here was along the lines of "I have doubts that a vaccine so rapidly developed under capitalism will necessarily be safe", a take which had evaporated by March as the data rolled in and showed that there weren't significant safety issues. This is not the same as "anti-vax", but I wouldn't disagree that some [vocal] people used that as cover for more genuine anti-vaccine views although I still think a lot of it was slightly over the top contrarian doom posting.
There are still leftists who will let then anti-vaccine takes fly in the name of "anti-pharma" though, and that's not good. It happens in spaces that are adjacent to this site, but fortunately it's been stamped out from here pretty thoroughly (although I still say it fizzled out on its own for the most part once we could see some data on it, and I have no issue with that).
Also a lot of the ‘skepticism’ was about how if the vaccines were anything less than shockingly effective, then the widespread belief that vaccines would end covid was delusional. Which in hindsight…
This is a fair analysis and thank you for the counterpoint
The point is that treating these things as inevitable is what makes them inevitable. Without the media pushing this for the government, there'd been more support for lockdowns and other pandemic safety measures. And by complaining about people pointing out that this is bad, you're contributing to that narrative of "everyone will get covid" which is just the government doing a big old social murder
Love too blame individuals
"By buying properties to rent you're contributing to the housing crisis" "taking private jets everywhere causes a tremendous amount of greenhouse gas emissions" "By going around maskless and unvaccinated, you're contributing to the prolonging of the pandemic and possibly killing or disabling the people you come in contact with"
"Wow you're really blaming individuals here, not very leftist of you"
Absolutely baby-brained take, you can still contribute to social murder as an individual. Did I blame the whole thing on you? No. Does that mean you're not contributing? Also no!
this is some :LIB: shit, read some theory.
:countdown:
i'm not online enough to understand this reference
it's nice, i would recommend it
Just childish shit, dont do this
Structural issues being the main cause doesn't mean shit heads don't exist lmao
So which theory are you referring to? Are you talking about the concept of no ethical consumption under capitalism to try to say there is no such thing as individual responsibility?
In no way does that refer to an opinion. That'sike, yeah, I have to order from Amazon because otherwise i don't have enough to feed my family.
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not entirely wrong
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You absolutely are contributing to this narrative. You are on here parroting the everyone will get covid as "what will be inevitable"
It's fair to blame individuals when an individual is supporting the cause. Groups like this are made up of individuals with the same talking points.
Demonstrate to me how it won't be for the plurality at this point. You're rejecting reality.
This is a materially different thing than WANTING it to happen, which obviously I do not.
I simply don't see a next step where a lockdown is effective. This is my own doomposting -- how do we get to your reality? I just don't understand how we get there.
After your edit - they could try anything. A lockdown, with economic support. The media could get out of its own ass and actually provide non-doom viewpoints. Look at possible solutions, weigh options, provide good coverage. They could keep providing tests and shots for free.
They could enact universal healthcare.
They could TRY to do a lot of things. Living in "Realist Stasis" and accepting inevitability helps nobody.
I'm not saying anything will happen, but literally waiting for everyone to get covid is as you say doomposting and not really helpful
Your statements have effect, especially when what we're talking about is actually just a viewpoint. You are contributing, at least a little bit, to the propaganda.
If you don't it to happen, then why does it appear that you've considered it inevitable?
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People were anxious about being guinea pigs because the vaccine was developed so quickly, a process that usualy takes years was reduced to a few months.
The bigger problem is the recent wave of anti-mandate brainworms and unexpected supporters like R. Wolff.
*American/Western liberals, conservatives and "leftists".
edit:
In most "developing" countries, the main complaint against lockdowns is that it causes economic distress. Sadly, neoliberal regimes aren't willing to (or can't even if they wanted to) spend to help their people during lockdowns. The complaints are less about "oh noes I can't go to brunch" and more about "my family is gonna starve.".
US by contrast can give it's people free money :brrrrrrrrrrrr:
no true leftist pours sugar on their porridge!
Really don't understand the point you're going with here.
You've missed the plot. You're RIGHT in that the government is jacking off and doing fuckall, but Americans Want This. A plurality in the country is Done with the pandemic, and wouldn't give a shit even if the government actually did something
🤷🏿♂️ tgreenwood is right. If you're left at this point you should want balkanization so the remaining liberal parts of the country could at least be coerced into a shutdown. The country as constituted can no longer respond to crises. There's no use putting humpty back together when we could, instead, break off the kingdom and try again
And i guess those of us in rural areas will just die then, thanks for your support, hope you don't need any of the food grown here
Why blame me? Your country failed you and I both.
Because you're the one talking about everywhere other than "liberal areas" like they're a lost cause and unnecessary, therefore the comrades and ordinary people who live there — are stuck there — should just die and deserve to for living there is one of the most Neera Tanden psychopathic brunch lib sentiments ive ever heard said unironically on this website
we're going back and forth a lot -- what steps would you see done to Solve Covid?
You're ticked off at me for stating that Americans Are Done with it regardless of the 'consent manufacturing by the media'.
You're ticked off that someone posits "haha what if we split into pods where people who want to isolate can keep isolating".
What would make you happy?
Start back in March 2020: don't begin the pandemic by saying masks do nothing, don't stop the post office from mailing masks to everyone, actually lock down for a few weeks and materially help people. Make vaccine patents illegal.
If I were put in charge today: lock everything down, give people material aid to get them through a 30-day lockdown, mandate vaccination for everyone who hasn't been vaccinated and boosters for those eligible who haven't received them. Increase public funding for hospitals, mandating that it be used for staff raises and equipment. Increase public funding for testing, ramp up manufacturing of testing. Severely penalize media sources that promote anti-lockdown or anti-pandemic-funding messaging and those that suggest that everyone get covid — make an example of someone, execute the editor and owner of the first media source to do so for treason and biological terrorism. Make vaccine patents illegal.
Edit: I'm pissed off at you because you're suggesting that it's fine that the government does nothing because the hogs want their treats, and for acting like the government doing nothing isn't worth complaining about on leftists dot website. Americans as a whole think what they're told to think; if they're told that we're doing one real lockdown and that's good and if we don't then the economy will collapse and here's $4000 to not leave your house this month, then they'll get on board with it. I'm pissed that you libs want to split the cities away from people in dirty chud land and abandon your vulnerable comrades who live there (like my wife, who is immunocompromised and will die if she gets covid)
I will be happy when you acknowledge that carrying water for the "we're giving up now" narrative the media is pushing makes you a liberal complicit in social murder.
I'm interested in your scenario for taking over now. who would be subject to the 30-day lock down? obviously medical workers have to go to their jobs but do you keep grocery stores open? what about the facilities to produce and process food? what about all of the people who ship that food, do you send in national guard members for those industries?
basically because of how we produce goods in this country you're dealing with these industries that cannot afford to shut down for a month without the systems that support Americans completely crumbling and if you keep them open you're introducing vectors that spread covid and could effectively undermine your efforts
Keep stores 100% closed to the public. Grocery stores, pharmacies, and hardware stores are open with limited, fully-vaccinated (including boosters if eligible), n95-masked staff processing goods for delivery only — if need be, limit household grocery orders to set pre-grouped food bags that include enough calories for each household member to eat for 1-2 weeks, and limit orders to 1x/week. The same limitations apply to facilities that produce and process food and medical equipment. Limit transportation to essential goods only — yes to truckers hauling and unloading foodstuffs, no to truckers hauling funko pops and xboxes.
Hospitals and healthcare facilities also remain open, with the same staff constraints as above. Plan to distribute food and grain from the national reserves if necessary. Tradespeople are limited to emergency work on an as-needed basis (e.g. a vaccinated, masked plumber may go to resedences to fix a catastrophic leak, but may not go to residences to install a new bathroom) — routing for these services is run through a fully-remote call center to ensure that the responding tradespeople are vaccinated.
Everyone is given emergency and hazard pay.
honestly that sounds good to me. everyone is compensated with minimal risk of transmission and services continue to supply people with essential goods
😳 L M A O
Very productive, thank you for your input and your apology
Never apologized for anything, stop putting words in people's mouths LMAO 🤣
Yeah I was being sarcastic, you're being a huge asshole and your response was super unnecessary
Damn I wish I could downvote this
You clearly have nothing useful to say so I'm disengaging
This person has no solution to the right willing to use violence to impose the society they want to see. The reality is different than whatever nonsensical shit they are proposing.
Like, you have hooting, hollering, gun-toting chuds who have seized control of red states and are imposing their Draconian voting laws. They have sympathizers in every branch of govt. They even run the military and the police force. How are you going to lock down all of these people who will just say no without, in effect, creating 2 Americas? 2 different lands where life is just different.
Fucking typical behavior from some of the clowns on this site lmao. "You don't care about the minorities and poor" tier liberal response. Might as well fucking tell us to vote Joe Byron so he can Build Back Brandon.
what in the world
lmao
This has always been the case, since at it's founding the US has been a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. The very mechanisms that stamp out popular pressure at the expense of the capitalists also prevent it from responding to crises. It's no accident that all our legislative rules and structures make even passing a simple bill to raise the minimum wage damn near impossible. That's why I have zero hope of stopping climate change outside of a proletarian revolution.
It's one of those infinitely frustrating situations that capitalism gets us into where it wouldn't even have become a serious problem under socialism but now we're locked in, with the media only pressing and consent manufacturing for the shittiest solutions ("Just let everybody get it! Herd immunity!")
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Yea, the constant propaganda and suppression kind of fuck people's minds and turn them into obedient mutt. If you look at China, their citizen have a much higher expectation for their government, look at the recent screw up at Xi'an, one women got miscarriage because of hospital deny care, their citizen gone bat shite which caused the government to take action and strip the director of their position. While for American, look at 3k death a day like a statistic. So that's why when the lib or the conservative lecture us about China or any aes nation, call them out for being a hypocrite for trying to eugenics their own population
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What are you talking about? Thousands of students and teachers have walked out all ready. Approval of the president is all time low. Americans are opposing this in rhetoric and action.
All of that is cool and good, but there should be riots
I think walkouts have more power to change policy since they're just as damaging structurally and provoke a smaller police response.
Rather than riots, I'd like to see the students march down to the hospital and ask the nurses to join them.
Who knows really. I haven’t seen any studies or anything but it’d be interesting to see if someone has done a comparison.
In my experience the only thing that gets government to move is line go down, worker strikes, or enough people lighting things on fire. Sometimes even that doesn’t work.
Line go down on the other hand works every time.
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Yes insert Chad face
Sorry idk how to do emojis