This is my naïveté on plain display...Every leftist space ive played in has had some extremely vocal progressive contingent, and not triggering them has been the key to some very interesting discussion.
Well if you're looking for discussion on the point you brought up above...
Everyone in the world will try to screw you.
This is a function of the capitalist system. As leftists we view this cutthroat philosophy within the culture as the result of a system built on exploitation.
If some one steals your wages, your recourse is EXTREMELY strong
This is fundamentally untrue. Wage theft amounts to at least a third of total theft in terms of the amounts stolen. And yet I never hear about thousands of people raking in lifelong payouts from successful lawsuits against thieving employers--perhaps because no one who needs to work to put food on the table is able to pursue one for an extended period of time, and pay all the legal costs for years until the lawsuit concludes (yes, if you win you can get your legal costs paid, but that's a huge gamble most people can't afford to make). And in fact, even a successful lawsuit only entitles you to the wages that were stolen, plus back pay. You can bet that even after winning, you'll still need to find a new job--so it's hardly worth it, especially given that employers who find out about your lawsuit are going to be a lot less likely to hire you.
And all of this is missing the point of this post overall, which is that this entire system is rotten, and designed to protect these thieves, because they're the ones who have all the money and hence, all the power (they're capitalists--the ones who own the capital, particularly the means of production). My top-level comment, which you'll notice is well-liked, references Marxist theory regarding the exploitation of labor, which points out that profits are stolen labor-value (in short, the difference between what a laborer is paid and the exchange value of the products produced by that laborer--minus the cost of inputs--is being stolen from that laborer, by dint of the fact that the laborer is not the owner of the means of production, which under capitalism are private property owned by the holders of capital).
Everyone in the world will try to screw you. Screw them back more. It has a deterrent effect.
This is sad, dude. I'm not trying to dunk on you, but that kind of mindset is first, not even helpful or accurate , but also is going to make you start to feel really alienated from your community if you believe it.
The only people trying to screw you in this world are capitalists. Most everyone else is simply hurting others incidentally out of selfishness (which is often caused by being forced to fight for their survival in a capitalist society). Capitalists are telling you your work isn't worth enough money to get you by. Capitalists are raising your rent. Capitalists are increasing the costs of your medications, gas and food, even though we have all of the things we need and don't need to pay for any of it if we simply distributed it all fairly.
I'm not out to get you, even though you support someone who has said racist things about members of my community. I still want you to have a roof over your head and healthcare. Maybe you think that's naive and i'll get "steamrolled" by the real world. Let me assure you i am a full grown adult, married, with a house, and with a successful job and have yet to be punished for the random acts of kindness i have done for strangers.
To truly be strong you must understand when to use your strength. We use our strength to fight the people oppressing us both, not each other.
just wanna add that even hunter gatherers took care of people who couldn't contribute to their society btw. https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/82-humans-took-care-of-the-disabled-over-500-000-years-ago
Theres selecfive pressure to do so as well. Most of the time another organism needing help is temporary. After the need has passed others become able to help in return.
That would be collective self-interest....say when an in-group all decides the same thing.. Even then someone in that group might have intention to screw you over and you should be watching for such....
But you should be wise about who you are spending your effort watching to screw you over, right? Your boss or landlord is gonna screw you over 5000 times more often and more harshly than anyone without any money or power. So logically wouldn't you want to spend your time watching for attacks from the place they come most frequently from?
I have to be a little rude to get into it, but yes. I am familiar with material historical analysis, im also familiar with a number of other modes of historical analysis and i absolutely fucking never rely on just one.
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...is this a bit?
im hoping to provoke unorthodox reactions from an orthodox church, roughly speaking
I swear i come in peace.
I don't think you understand your audience at all, then. This isn't a liberal (or even "progressive") community; it's a leftist one.
Incredibly valuable insight.
This is my naïveté on plain display...Every leftist space ive played in has had some extremely vocal progressive contingent, and not triggering them has been the key to some very interesting discussion.
Well if you're looking for discussion on the point you brought up above...
This is a function of the capitalist system. As leftists we view this cutthroat philosophy within the culture as the result of a system built on exploitation.
This is fundamentally untrue. Wage theft amounts to at least a third of total theft in terms of the amounts stolen. And yet I never hear about thousands of people raking in lifelong payouts from successful lawsuits against thieving employers--perhaps because no one who needs to work to put food on the table is able to pursue one for an extended period of time, and pay all the legal costs for years until the lawsuit concludes (yes, if you win you can get your legal costs paid, but that's a huge gamble most people can't afford to make). And in fact, even a successful lawsuit only entitles you to the wages that were stolen, plus back pay. You can bet that even after winning, you'll still need to find a new job--so it's hardly worth it, especially given that employers who find out about your lawsuit are going to be a lot less likely to hire you.
And all of this is missing the point of this post overall, which is that this entire system is rotten, and designed to protect these thieves, because they're the ones who have all the money and hence, all the power (they're capitalists--the ones who own the capital, particularly the means of production). My top-level comment, which you'll notice is well-liked, references Marxist theory regarding the exploitation of labor, which points out that profits are stolen labor-value (in short, the difference between what a laborer is paid and the exchange value of the products produced by that laborer--minus the cost of inputs--is being stolen from that laborer, by dint of the fact that the laborer is not the owner of the means of production, which under capitalism are private property owned by the holders of capital).
That's if you can afford to wait out a court case while also facing the risk of retaliation and possible blacklisting if you try to fight it.
Also, even with people trying to win back their wages, total paybacks amount to a pittance to what businesses are able to get away with. 2019 had a "record-breaking" $322 million back wages collected according to the Department of Labor yet businesses get away with an estimated > $15 billion dollars in minimum wage violations every year
This is sad, dude. I'm not trying to dunk on you, but that kind of mindset is first, not even helpful or accurate , but also is going to make you start to feel really alienated from your community if you believe it.
The only people trying to screw you in this world are capitalists. Most everyone else is simply hurting others incidentally out of selfishness (which is often caused by being forced to fight for their survival in a capitalist society). Capitalists are telling you your work isn't worth enough money to get you by. Capitalists are raising your rent. Capitalists are increasing the costs of your medications, gas and food, even though we have all of the things we need and don't need to pay for any of it if we simply distributed it all fairly.
I'm not out to get you, even though you support someone who has said racist things about members of my community. I still want you to have a roof over your head and healthcare. Maybe you think that's naive and i'll get "steamrolled" by the real world. Let me assure you i am a full grown adult, married, with a house, and with a successful job and have yet to be punished for the random acts of kindness i have done for strangers.
To truly be strong you must understand when to use your strength. We use our strength to fight the people oppressing us both, not each other.
you literally cannot dunk on me bro, im explaining someone else's perspective.
who's perspective is it? Do you believe, counter to the science, that humans are inherently selfish?
Science can get fucked, but in this case, yes, humans are inherently selfish...
You really don't want my personal perspective on anything.
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just wanna add that even hunter gatherers took care of people who couldn't contribute to their society btw. https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/82-humans-took-care-of-the-disabled-over-500-000-years-ago
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oh yeah, agreeing with you. Just posting that for evidence.
Theres selecfive pressure to do so as well. Most of the time another organism needing help is temporary. After the need has passed others become able to help in return.
That would be collective self-interest....say when an in-group all decides the same thing.. Even then someone in that group might have intention to screw you over and you should be watching for such....
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But you should be wise about who you are spending your effort watching to screw you over, right? Your boss or landlord is gonna screw you over 5000 times more often and more harshly than anyone without any money or power. So logically wouldn't you want to spend your time watching for attacks from the place they come most frequently from?
We are all individuals, free to choose our blind spots.
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I have to be a little rude to get into it, but yes. I am familiar with material historical analysis, im also familiar with a number of other modes of historical analysis and i absolutely fucking never rely on just one.
Why can "science get fucked"? How else can we measure the world if not through rigorous, repeated testing?
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You're more than welcome here, just dont be a dick, and argue in good faith if you want to engage.