:doomjak:
Meanwhile the left could keep Le Pen out of the runoff entirely if they united around Mélenchon, but nah.
Years ago, Zizek said that if the French people picked Macron over Melanchon they'd just be dooming themselves to LePen in 2023 or whatever. I wish I could find it, can't remember if it was even an article or interview though.
:lenin-confused: Thank you zizek
Our media present the two second-round contestants as standing for two radically opposed visions of France: the independent centrist versus the far-right racist – yes, but do they offer a real choice? Le Pen offers a feminised/softened version of brutal anti-immigrant populism (of her father), and Macron offers neoliberalism with a human face, while his image is also softly feminised (see the maternal role his wife plays in the media). So the father is out and femininity is in – but, again, what kind of femininity? As Alain Badiou pointed out, in today’s ideological universe, men are ludic adolescent outlaws, while women appear as hard, mature, serious, legal and punitive. Women today are not called by the ruling ideology to be subordinated, they are called – solicited, expected – to be judges, administrators, ministers, CEOs, teachers, policewomen and soldiers. A paradigmatic scene occurring daily in our security institutions is that of a feminine teacher/judge/psychologist taking care of an immature asocial young male delinquent. A new figure of femininity is thus arising: a cold competitive agent of power, seductive and manipulative, attesting to the paradox that “in the conditions of capitalism women can do better than men” (Badiou). This, of course, in no way makes women suspicious as agents of capitalism; it merely signals that contemporary capitalism invented its own ideal image of woman who stands for cold administrative power with a human face.
I love how the woman in the first photo is carrying a baguette.
Supposedly both Macron and Le Pen have been campaigning on reducing the price of baguettes, because France is feeling the inflation crunch just as much as the rest of Europe.
All this even after Macron's been turning the racism knob up for the past couple of years. Looks like he's still missing out on the crucial racist vote! So weird that triangulating to the right hasn't paid off for him in any recognizable way!
Who knew that running to the right doesn't win over voters?
:biden-troll: "Couldn't be me, Jack!"
Well, instead of having the ball to go against amerikkka and it vassal, Macron want to give the far right the control of the country
I trust you don’t mean my Montreal-based improv comedy / hip-hop dance troupe.
Veins au Quebec. Lol it's shit too don't worry. But easy to immigrate to as a francophone. Just less social security, workers rights, and money.
I would rather die fighting the fascists here, no offense
Wont your flight controllers just go on strike or something 'till she steps down? Ya'll are so well organized.
idk man a lot of cops and military guys support her and the president has crazy powers here, definitely would like to avoid this.
I can't believe le Bernie Frères would to this to Macron and En Marche
Macron to start a random war in West Africa to stabilize his popularity incoming...
Or is starting wars to stay popular only a US thing?
I made a post but got no answers: Are the other left candidates(Jadot, Hidalgo,Roussel) lib fucks or guaranteeing a Macron-LePen run off?
Yeah Melenchon is far from perfect ,tho he seems easily the most left and anti-imperialist choice in France that can mobilze crowds and the youth at any large degree. He has climbed up to ~17%+ again WITHOUT vote transfers from the other lib “left” candidates who seem to actually attack him and hate him as much or even more than Macron and the far right weirdos. Of course i know how much socdems and greens can suck and back up the status quo prioritizing their anti-left ness but i could imagine exceptions where the danger is an openly fascist vs Macron run off that could actualy go either way.
On his own Melenchon is unlikely to go to the second round over LePen who polls at around 22% rn. The other left candidates aggregate around 10-12% and with pretty much no gains for months and them dropping out and backing the only left candidate with a chance of breaking the neolib-fash dichotomy and taking LePen out is the only way forward for them not to be the fascism enablers of their generation. In fact since the far right wingers seemingly wont drop out for each other and will split the vote enough for LePen to be around the low 20s its a great chance of doing so.
Is there any chance for that ? Did that also happen last elections ?
I understand as a personality Melenchon may have created enemity but this seems insignificant in front of the open opportunism and fascism enabling that is guaranteeing a preventable LePen-Macron matchup . Even for historicaly sucky green and socdem parliamentarists.
French here.
Is there any chance for that ?
Very little.
Did that also happen last elections ?
Admittedly, no. But also, Melenchon's image is far worse than last time. I can also guarantee you the local equivalent of liberals here would massively vote against him in a Macron/Melenchon second round. This is the election with the most guessable outcome I've seen since I've been of voting age - Macron will get reelected.
Personally I'll vote for Poutou in two days in the first round, an actual communist. And I won't vote in the second round, unless it's Melenchon there (in which case I'll vote, though knowing full well it'll be useless).
Vote for whoever but this seems kinda off to me. LePen seems to have a non insignifcant shot against Macron and dismissive certainty like this could very well lead to eating shit at the end. And even if she didnt, wouldnt it benifit the left and the French political lanscape for the convo to not gravitate and be monopolized between fash and neolib-fash debates and talking points and for actual left convo to take central place even if its sure to lose. For the politics and media on the country to not be a coverage of a competion of who can be most racist between right wingers. And even if Melenchon isnt a communist and maybe doesnt have an appealing personality for many his program is still to the left of Corbyn lets say or around there and is competently making his cases, otherwise he wouldnt be hitting the same % again this time (while you say his image is much worse). It only can play a positive role for the left and for young people mobilization (who support Melanchon in their majority) to not have LePen-Macron face off. And also who the fuck knows how the votes could redistribute in the second roung. Melenchon could very well get more votes from Zemmour and LePen etc than projected and make it a closer race. Wouldnt be an enormous surprise
And even if she didnt, wouldnt it benifit the left and the French political lanscape for the convo to not gravitate and be monopolized between fash and neolib-fash debates and talking points and for actual left convo to take central place even if its sure to lose
OK, that point is pretty strong. Melenchon would make for a very interesting between-rounds debate.
Y'all are going to bully me into switching my vote for him, aren't you. There was even a flyer for him wedged in my flat's door yesterday, so maybe that's a sign (they're canvassing hard in my town since it's what commonly referred to here as a dormitory town, with a large part of it being made of poorer people a generation removed from immigration).
I say there are enough good reasons to do it, especially if there is some mommentum. Especially since as i would guess the communist party cares primarily about the legislative elections and ground organizing. I would probably vote for someone like Varoufakis here in Greece in a similar situation if it had a chance to break fash-neolib monopoly in preseidential candidates and political central stage. Especially if the competent fash had a non zero chance of winning
Especially since as i would guess the communist party cares primarily about the legislative elections and ground organizing
They call themselves the anti-capitalist party, but yes. And they freely admit publicly they don't believe capital can be defeated through elections, and they're in it mainly for the platform it offers (they have the same allotted talking time in media as other candidates). Which tends to reinforce your point, really.
Why not vote for Melenchon to have an actual chance for a leftist to be in the second round/not let Le Pen get to the second round?
Voting for a guy with 1% support is infinitely more useless than voting for Melenchon in either round.
Did that also happen last elections?
Admittedly, no.Except it did. In 2017 if all Poutou and Arthaud voters had voted for Melenchon instead, he would have went to the second round instead of Le Pen.
Well, as I said Melenchon getting to the second round would have little impact. And I don't believe Le Pen could go through either. Admittedly I also didn't vote in the second round last time - because I couldn't handle the thought of knowing I helped that ghoul get in power for five years, but I'd have felt pretty fucking stupid, and somewhat guilty, had Le Pen got through, so you're probably right.
Except it did
I understood your question to mean: "was the far right vote split this way last time". It wasn't. I'm also still not sure it is that time around, by the way; Le Pen seems to have lost relatively few votes to that shithead Zemmour.
Admittedly I also didn’t vote in the second round last time
That part is fine. If the choice is neolib or right-winger it's not a choice and there's no point in voting.
But not voting for Melenchon in the first round sounds like a horrible idea.
I understood your question to mean
Sorry, wasn't my question, maybe I interpreted it wrong.
But not voting for Melenchon in the first round sounds like a horrible idea.
Fair point. It just feels like pissing in the wind at this point, but who knows.
Sorry, wasn’t my question, maybe I interpreted it wrong.
I'm a moron, sorry, I thought you were the OP of the comment I originally responded to.
Fair point. It just feels like pissing in the wind at this point, but who knows.
Better than voting for a guy with 1% support and therefore helping guarantee the second round has no good options.
therefore helping guarantee the second round has no good options
Does it matter if no good option can go through anyway ?
I'm also pretty tired of this "useful vote" rhetoric - it's a common theme here in France - and quite frankly at this point I tend choose to vote for the candidate I feel the closest to ideologically, regardless of other factors. Though I'll be honest, you've made me doubt that.
Melenchon’s image is far worse than
But he seems to have gotten more votes. How would you explain that?
Isn't this like every election, and then she eats fucking shit in the actual race? iirc this already happened like 4 times?
Doesn't seem like it. In 2017, Macron was consistently beating Le Pen by about the margin he ended up winning with for months. The highest Le Pen got looks to be 41.5%.
I mean lol it's not a surprise. It's funny seeing the reactions of everyone freaking out here as opposed to the glee they show when Trump's doing well when LePen is less fash than Trump.
LePen is less fash than Trump.
That is not at all the impression I've gotten, but I guess I'm just a dumb American.
Did you ever see LePenn standing on stage arguing FOR immigration in front of Macron's Finance Minister (iirc)? Also, Macron has turned out so fash does it really make any difference?
That was super funny though. He basically was like "you're not racist enough" (but in French) and she was like "I'M not racist enough???" (but in French). She looked so confused.
LePen is absolutely not less fash tham Trump.
Also, no one here is legit excited when Trump is doing well, what tf are you talking about?
Meanwhile the left could keep Le Pen out of the runoff entirely if they united around Mélenchon, but nah.
Maybe. But can Mélenchon beat Le Pen, or are Leftists just lining up a French Elizabeth Warren to lose to Macron?
But can Mélenchon beat Le Pen
You mean can Melenchon beat Macron? Because a Melenchon vs Le Pen second round doesn't seem likely, it would either be Macron vs Le Pen or Macron vs Melenchon. Polls don't look great (this same poll has Macron 54%, Melenchon 46%), but Macron vs Melenchon is a much better idea than Macron vs Le Pen.
or are Leftists just lining up a French Elizabeth Warren to lose to Macron?
To me it seems more like if we had Biden vs Bernie in the general election. Good chance Biden would have beat him, but it's better than a choice between Biden and Trump.
