Its been awesome talking 1 on 1 with her about my "political" views. I got to explain western propoganda re: communism, define marxism and explain to her how and why I hate liberals more than she does. When I explained I was basically just a dialectical materialist who didn't believe in culture war bullshit or dividing the working class along those lines, she said "well gee, when you say it like that it kinda makes sense."
Anyway, now we're going shooting together! :stalin-heart:
Btw I do not plan to tell anyone at this range that Im a marxist, I can already see the story in this tiny county's local edition: "Tragic gun malfunction kills one at local gun range"
My grandma once told me anyone making over 500k a year needs to be taken out back and shot.
My grandma was a major union organizer in a socialist republic
But I'm just bragging
You can't tell people you're a communist, you just have to tell them that you hate bosses.
There's still enough people around who remember George Carlin that "I hate that all these people have to spend their whole lives working to make someone else richer" and "the rich control the government and that's terrible if you aren't rich" are two broadly well-understood communist sentiments that nearly everyone will agree with except for the worst /r/neoliberal class traitors.
Lol my money would be on the random chuds in this one horse town
I think this is generally true for a lot of conservatives (not reactionaries). Like communism is really not that radical an idea, especially for people already thoroughly propagandized about "global elites."
Totally agreed - I've just learned you can't bust out the word "communism" with these folks unless you're ready to try and deprogram them for an hour. Just avoid labels until they straight up ask you "what you are." Start with your shared hatred of bourgeois liberals and just go from there.
So what are you going to do when she inevitably gets to the topic of black people? Are you just going to be like, ‘you see the new left doesn’t care about black people, we can have communism without blacks’
I get what you're saying. But a lot of conservatives will here the "dividing the working class" line, and be like "yeah thats why this blm stuff is wrong", ""They" are trying to divide us by color"
:fidel-salute: very well thought out comrade. Best of luck with your efforts
I’ve had to interact with, though, aren’t explicitly racist. like, they hate BLM and may be uncomfortable around black people, but they don’t hold any explicit beliefs about white supremacy
No explicit white supremacist beliefs, just calling the cops on any one that looks 'suspicious', not hiring people because they don't fit the work place 'culture'. Sure. I wonder if you're this generous with libs?
Agreed. I feel like this site really struggles to understand what conservatives are actually like, and tend to elevate all of them to the heights of the most hateful fascists.
This may not be useful in this specific case, but I have had a lot of luck explaining to people that BLM used to be super based but the original organizers got killed and replaced by mostly libs who cynically appropriated it to get more votes. This is a bit of a simplification, but not by much.
Like, what has BLM even managed to accomplish? Very little. If the liberals actually cared they would have helped them do a lot more, instead of actively opposing them while claiming they are helping.
If someone isn't a lost cause on the racism front this makes them come to the conclusion that black people as a whole are at least just as, if not more frustrated with liberals as they are, and they are not an enemy. The fact you didn't tell them that, just led them there makes it stick in their head very well.
As a white guy in an aggressively fash US town, you've got a point.
I've been working on my family for years, and all I have to show for it are shouting matches and the knowledge that my dad thinks that putting Japanese people in camps was the right call 🤦♂️
I keep joking with her that by the end of the week she'll be a communist (i wasnt joking)
Just wanna say, I walk into my conservative (VERY conservative) gun range usually once a week with my trans/anarchy/etc tattoos and.... no one has given a shit. Earnestly I think most CHUDs who go to the range have Gun Brain Worms >>>>>> all other :brainworms:. I've gotten pretty obvious "omg, a trans leftist GIRL is here??? that's so..... cool!" before. Did get invited to someone's private range but they seemed more like a creepy chaser than someone who wanted to murder me for my political beliefs.
This is all a long winded way of saying being publicly leftist and pro gun is actually very good! When a lot of conservatives main qualm with the scary Marxist SJWs want to take their guns, someone with a hammer and sickle shirt at the range can lead them down a path of deradicalization, and maybe even radicalization in our favor!
I love shooting guns, it's just so fucking expensive in Canada. Not even anything cool, actually cool stuff sets you back way too much for an hour of fun... If I ever go to Vegas before climate change burns it to the ground I wanna go to one of the ranges you get to use grenade launchers at, that shit is so cool. I've heard of ranges in Cambodia where you get to shoot rpgs, wonder if that's legit.
i wonder how much you'd have to shoot at BF vegas that it would be cheaper to fly to cambodia to waste ammo.
Im sorry, comrade. But hey, sometimes it's a blessing. My grandma is the only one I have left and is only alive because she was assymptomatic when she and everyone in her town caught COVID.
Everyone hanging out with reactionaries, I seriously think you should cease it. These people absolutely hate you and will throw you into the hounds first if they could sacrifice you and get away with it. If you were a black person or undocumented immigrant, they would chase them out of the gun range. How are you going to fight for the oppressed when you're chumming up to the people who will threaten the lives of the proletariat. They're going to use you for their propaganda.
Everyone hanging out with reactionaries, I seriously think you should cease it.
Its my grandma, dude. Idk why people on this site act like talking to their own conservative family members about marxism, communism, capitalism and class solidarity is akin to walking up to a Gestapo officer and slapping them on the back.
These people absolutely hate you and will throw you into the hounds first if they could sacrifice you and get away with it.
Who are you referring to, specifically? Many of them don't, actually - but sure, some of them are :frothingfash: who absolutely aren't worth talking to. I'd go as far to say that the majority of people who I've met who identify as nominally conservative are not really that political or ideological. They've just never had the privilege or inclination to pay thousands of dollars to take a CRT class at a liberal university, so they're ignorant as hell about the history of oppression or material conditions.
How are you going to fight for the oppressed when you’re chumming up to the people who will threaten the lives of the proletariat.
They are the prolitariat, by definition. They own nothing and have nothing to sell but their labor. They've got a car payment, rent they cant afford, no health care, and nowhere to place the blame because they're totally deluded. Having a vaccum where their knowledge of capitalist/imperialist oppresion, expropriation and exploitation doesn't make them Nazis. And trying to deradicalize them /= abandoning my comrades.
If you were a black person or undocumented immigrant, they would chase them out of the gun range.
I'm not gonna speak to the experience of POCs in small towns, but I will say that this generalization often leaves me with the impression that leftists dont believe there are conservative black and brown people in droves. Having said that, I completely acknowledge a genuine fear of violence is something POCs all over America live with every single day. I'm interested in what I could possibly do (if anything) as a privileged dude to help mitigate that. I'd throw down for my comrades against the fash in a heartbeat.
They’re going to use you for their propaganda.
I have no idea how debunking bullshit propaganda among my own family makes me liable to further radicalize them, but I'm open to your thoughts on that.
I seriously appreciate the critical feedback, and I totally understand if this kind of "sympathy" for disenfranchised lower class crackers gets interpreted as apologia for racism. I mention elsewhere that I don't believe in some Habermassean project where we "debate" racism with fascists, and I think some other comrades in this thread expand on the topic better than I do. I only engage with these people in the confines of my own family. Anyway, I can tell you're genuinely concerned about this, I totally appreciate the feedback, and I'm open to more feedback and crit.
Well, when you consider that racism is perpetuated by systemic poverty, privatization and a multi-billion dollar media apparatus invested in the culture war shit I mentioned above, this is the exact type thing I would never say to a chud if you want to swing their POV in any way. I hear you, though. IMO when the chuds are trying to join your unionizing effort, you take the W. Deprograming bigotry can happen in the close quarters with family/friends after you get them to acknowledge the imperitive of unequivocal working class solidarity. In fact, if they acknowledge that at all, then you've already made strides in that direction.
That, or we can all just kill each other later
Edit: the second I responded the account got banned lol
Deprograming bigotry can happen in the close quarters with family/friends after you get them to acknowledge the imperitive of unequivocal working class solidarity.
lmao yes, after you've turned off all of your working class poc comrades because you're more interested in luring your conservative grandma and other chuds in your family, you can then deprogram them of bigotry.
Good to know people on this site would inadvertently railroad us because they believe in deprogramming bigotry. Good luck with that.
What other accurate analyses of conditions in America created and championed by oppressed classes should we drop so that over privileged smooth brains like you won’t drop everything and be “driven” to be reactionary pieces of shit?
Lmao you never can commit to shit you always back down when pressed bc you literally can not justify your position beyond yelling that it’s obv. I love to see dunning-Kruger effect work tho so keep going lol
Lmao it was literally explained last time about it being about power relations between oppressed and oppressed which white people are in America. We even did your Japanese thought experiment for you which you then slinked away from bc you literally can’t hold a thought In your brain for more than a millisecond Lmao
Lmao I genuinely almost feel bad for how bad you are at critical thinking
“You just want me to expose how reactionary I am!!” :wojak-nooo:
Maybe do some self crit and that won’t happen so often :vivian-shrug:
Yea I already know you have a lot of reactionary beliefs you can’t be disabused of. Bc your beliefs are emotional and grown out of your fragile pathetic identity as a privileged white cis dude I’m not surprised to here you’re a disingenuous moron lol
I'm not the other poster, I didn't propose using the line of rhetoric that says 'it's not possible to be racist against white people'. I'm more referring to your belief that you can 'deprogram' bigotry frompeople who literally identify as conservatives In the United States.
I’m more referring to your belief that you can ‘deprogram’ bigotry frompeople who literally identify as conservatives In the United States.
I made huge inroads on this exact topic in an hour of conversing with a group of conservatives in my family. It really wasn't that hard. You may not have to or want to engage with those people though, and that's fine. Personally I don't think any of my POC friends are going to disavow me for trying. Then again, they aren't terminally online, so :shrug-outta-hecks:
Personally I don’t think any of my POC friends are going to disavow me for trying. Then again, they aren’t terminally online, so
What can I say, your POC friends are way cooler than I am. Maybe you should share your bigotry deprogramming tactics with the site, It would be pretty useful if you're right about making significant inroads with your fam on racism after speaking for only a single hour.
I don't disavow you for trying. I mean, that's commendable. I just think you're naive when it comes to being convinced that it isn't a futile endeavor and ends up being counterproductive.
I get it. I don't love the idea of chuds wanting to join my union, and I hope I was never interpreted to mean that I think we should be making common cause with racists at the expense of POC comrades. I would never wish for that. I just believe that trash reactionary fascist ideology is a product of exploitation + right wing media feedback mechanisms, and I know from personal experience that you can combat that in people when they know/trust you. I've never tried this on a stranger, though - that probably would be more of a futile Habermassean liberal excercise, idk. I appreciate your criticial feedback, comrade.
I’m sorry, but you sound like the vegans we had to ban en masse for starting dumb sectarian shit all over this site.
Good to know talking about race is sectarianism here. You can get me banned if you'd like.
