The discourse reminds me of how hard it was to criticize the Disney Star Wars trilogy because of all the "PURPLE HAIR FEEEMALE BAD" frothing happening all the while.
There are serious issues in the porn industry, from the production onward. Worker abuse/exploitation is rampant and actors are grossly underpaid considering how much profit they make. The most notorious example I can think of being Mia Khalifa who for a time was just about the most famous person in the porn industry and received very little actual payment for her work, and the particular porn scene that made her world famous pretty much directly ties back into the topic of this thread.
Porn actors are very unlikely to have career opportunities outside of the porn industry, which locks them in because of the weird cultural hedonistic/puritan hybrid monstrosity that defines the west and how it sees, portrays, and consumes sexuality.
It doesn't stop there. Systemic racism is built right in. Mainstream interracial porn has the expectation, even the mandate, of political :us-foreign-policy: ethnicities as either exotic playthings or brutish conquering monsters.
The transphobic and chaser issues in the industry are staggering as well, normalizing and expanding the "othering" of trans people from the naming and marketing of such videos onward.
I don't have easy answers for any of those issues, but they are problems.
Yeah. My solution personally has been to quit. I know that's not realistic for people with internet access to do, especially single folks. And it does nothing to help the workers actually involved in producing porn. But it was harming me and I had to stop. And not because of puritan bs, because of the reasons you mentioned
Reduction, or even quitting, is a good thing for those harmed by the stuff. I have nothing but contempt for the "nofap" :reddit-logo: cryptofascist cult for having a near-total ideological monopoly on the idea for most people, though.
Yeah exactly. On :reddit-logo:, the pornfree subreddit is better and bans nofap talking points if I remember correctly. Also lot of people conflate masturbation with porn which leads to nofap type thinking, but it's perfectly fine to masturbate without porn.
Agreed, but now I am legally obligated to cede the podium to our friendly neighborhood VolCel officer. Oh, I think she's setting up a puppet show stage, neat!
It's like AA and addiction. The AA system is terrible and has bad outcomes when addiction is already very hard to manage, but it has so much cultural penetration that most people don't even know there are alternatives.
The problem is that there's no truly reliable way of knowing on a mainstream porn search engine what was made with exploitation, or for that matter was intended for private viewing but later used as revenge porn later, and issues like that.
Edit: It isn't guaranteed that personal distribution is exploitation free but it certainly is more likely to be made and distributed without exploitation compared to PornHub or RedTube or the like. The :reddit-logo: style argument of "if any exceptions exist, no conclusions can be drawn at all" is sophistic and tiresome to me.
was intended for private viewing but later used as revenge porn later
Gonewild on Reddit tries to avoid this by having users post a picture of themselves with their user name, date, and "Gonewild" written on a piece of paper. It's not perfect and I'm sure some content gets posted without consent, but I don't know what else you could do that wouldn't require people to like send in their driver's licenses.
It beats the "if there's any possibility of the system being bypassed, it is just as flawed as any other system, therefore all porn and all porn distribution is equally right and wrong and consequently everything should be permitted because that's better than nothing being permitted" :reddit-logo: spectrum of takes, especially.
any art made for a corporation was made with exploitation, but that doesn't stop us from watching tv or listening to mainstream music
barring a reflection you can't know if a gun was pointed at the subject of a photograph, but I don't think i'm further harmed by some new person who i will never meet and cannot identify me seeing a picture of my butthole that someone screenshotted from snapchat or a google engineer illegally copied out of my email.
i have no idea what your point was then. if some hentai artist was forced to draw a kink they don't like or scammed out of money they were owed by a publisher, that harm is done and dusted long before the work is scanlated and uploaded somewhere you or I would see it, and we don't compound the harm done by passively copying and observing art.
You sort of brought in your own hentai advocacy here from the start and I was talking almost entirely about videos and photography, as was focus of the topic of this thread.
it applies the same way. you don't know who I am or what I look like or which butthole is my butthole so how exactly do you assume any moral culpability from looking at a "stolen" or coerced picture of my butthole?
This is getting into borderline :reddit-logo: territory up to and including "it's almost as if that cartoon child porn is just lines on a page or just numbers in a computer" argument methods and I find those reductionist and sophistic, so I'm choosing to disengage.
I sign up for only fans accounts. In so far as porn can be ethical a single creator making their own content and getting like 80% of proceeds is about the best you can ask for right now. There's also voyeur forums on Reddit like Gonewild where people are posting pictures of themselves for voyeuristic reasons.
Just a general knowledge thing, but Khalifa has an onlyfans where she posts non-nude cheesecake content and apparently she's pulling down millions a month now.
The discourse reminds me of how hard it was to criticize the Disney Star Wars trilogy because of all the "PURPLE HAIR FEEEMALE BAD" frothing happening all the while.
There are serious issues in the porn industry, from the production onward. Worker abuse/exploitation is rampant and actors are grossly underpaid considering how much profit they make. The most notorious example I can think of being Mia Khalifa who for a time was just about the most famous person in the porn industry and received very little actual payment for her work, and the particular porn scene that made her world famous pretty much directly ties back into the topic of this thread.
Porn actors are very unlikely to have career opportunities outside of the porn industry, which locks them in because of the weird cultural hedonistic/puritan hybrid monstrosity that defines the west and how it sees, portrays, and consumes sexuality.
It doesn't stop there. Systemic racism is built right in. Mainstream interracial porn has the expectation, even the mandate, of political :us-foreign-policy: ethnicities as either exotic playthings or brutish conquering monsters.
The transphobic and chaser issues in the industry are staggering as well, normalizing and expanding the "othering" of trans people from the naming and marketing of such videos onward.
I don't have easy answers for any of those issues, but they are problems.
Yeah. My solution personally has been to quit. I know that's not realistic for people with internet access to do, especially single folks. And it does nothing to help the workers actually involved in producing porn. But it was harming me and I had to stop. And not because of puritan bs, because of the reasons you mentioned
Reduction, or even quitting, is a good thing for those harmed by the stuff. I have nothing but contempt for the "nofap" :reddit-logo: cryptofascist cult for having a near-total ideological monopoly on the idea for most people, though.
Yeah exactly. On :reddit-logo:, the pornfree subreddit is better and bans nofap talking points if I remember correctly. Also lot of people conflate masturbation with porn which leads to nofap type thinking, but it's perfectly fine to masturbate without porn.
Agreed, but now I am legally obligated to cede the podium to our friendly neighborhood VolCel officer. Oh, I think she's setting up a puppet show stage, neat!
:bunny-cop:
It's like AA and addiction. The AA system is terrible and has bad outcomes when addiction is already very hard to manage, but it has so much cultural penetration that most people don't even know there are alternatives.
I've heard of some people seeking AA alternatives being directed to AlAnon. You know, the Scientology subdivision. :agony-minion:
Oh my god. It's fucking dangerous for the average for people to not know that this whole country is all cults all the time.
there's always hentai and purported exhibitionists posting their own nudes, while not free of social problems don't carry nearly the same baggage.
The problem is that there's no truly reliable way of knowing on a mainstream porn search engine what was made with exploitation, or for that matter was intended for private viewing but later used as revenge porn later, and issues like that.
Edit: It isn't guaranteed that personal distribution is exploitation free but it certainly is more likely to be made and distributed without exploitation compared to PornHub or RedTube or the like. The :reddit-logo: style argument of "if any exceptions exist, no conclusions can be drawn at all" is sophistic and tiresome to me.
Gonewild on Reddit tries to avoid this by having users post a picture of themselves with their user name, date, and "Gonewild" written on a piece of paper. It's not perfect and I'm sure some content gets posted without consent, but I don't know what else you could do that wouldn't require people to like send in their driver's licenses.
That does seem to be an improved system.
It beats the "if there's any possibility of the system being bypassed, it is just as flawed as any other system, therefore all porn and all porn distribution is equally right and wrong and consequently everything should be permitted because that's better than nothing being permitted" :reddit-logo: spectrum of takes, especially.
any art made for a corporation was made with exploitation, but that doesn't stop us from watching tv or listening to mainstream music
barring a reflection you can't know if a gun was pointed at the subject of a photograph, but I don't think i'm further harmed by some new person who i will never meet and cannot identify me seeing a picture of my butthole that someone screenshotted from snapchat or a google engineer illegally copied out of my email.
I think you missed the main point of what I had posted, regarding where the stuff is picked up and with how many degrees of separation from the maker.
you were talking about the provenance of digital files, yes?
Not specifically, no.
i have no idea what your point was then. if some hentai artist was forced to draw a kink they don't like or scammed out of money they were owed by a publisher, that harm is done and dusted long before the work is scanlated and uploaded somewhere you or I would see it, and we don't compound the harm done by passively copying and observing art.
You sort of brought in your own hentai advocacy here from the start and I was talking almost entirely about videos and photography, as was focus of the topic of this thread.
it applies the same way. you don't know who I am or what I look like or which butthole is my butthole so how exactly do you assume any moral culpability from looking at a "stolen" or coerced picture of my butthole?
This is getting into borderline :reddit-logo: territory up to and including "it's almost as if that cartoon child porn is just lines on a page or just numbers in a computer" argument methods and I find those reductionist and sophistic, so I'm choosing to disengage.
Knowing that I'm appreciating the work of a writer/artist does enhance my enjoyment of doujinshi or other such artwork
I sign up for only fans accounts. In so far as porn can be ethical a single creator making their own content and getting like 80% of proceeds is about the best you can ask for right now. There's also voyeur forums on Reddit like Gonewild where people are posting pictures of themselves for voyeuristic reasons.
Just a general knowledge thing, but Khalifa has an onlyfans where she posts non-nude cheesecake content and apparently she's pulling down millions a month now.
I'm happy for her, then! :bloomer: