What can we do to change this? I don't think chapo.chat will ever be huge, but it would be nice for it to be consistently active.

  • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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    4 years ago

    Anyone is capable of changing their minds to any other position at any point in time. There is no real distance.

    I don't think this matches reality, and it certainly runs counter to any sort of empirical research on the subject. One example of this is the consistency principle, which has been extensively researched, and shows that people strongly desire to match their beliefs with what they've done or thought in the past. Anecdotally, I'm sure we've all had those conversations where someone agrees with you on every step of the way up to a logical conclusion, but then rejects that conclusion anyway. Shit, this is so common there are at least two memes about it (from Friends and SpongeBob).

    We have to put in real effort to change people's minds, and that includes careful consideration of the best ways to pull them leftwards. Too much too fast is a real thing. If you say "Stalin committed literally zero crimes" here you can have a rational discussion about the merits and shortcomings of the USSR; if you say it to anyone who's not an extremely-online leftist they're just going to tune you out.

    • FUCKTHEPAINTUP [any]
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      4 years ago

      Okay, fair point, but what if you can completely validate what they’ve done or thought in the past with therapeutic and relativistic psychoanalysis, provide systemic explanations for faults, re-education, pharmacology, changes in material conditions, new social media environments... yes, real effort. Always struggle. Ideas can change quickly.

      • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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        4 years ago

        You can absolutely persuade people -- it just takes time, though, and effort. And throwing them in the deep end (e.g., "Stalin committed literally zero crimes") is a risky strategy at best, and a losing one for most people in most environments.

        • FUCKTHEPAINTUP [any]
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          4 years ago

          I absolutely agree.

          My favourite part of The Tempest is when the dark sorcerer Prospero drowns all of his magic books.

          That’s why we say we treat Stalin and Lenin and Mao fairly. They were all complete fucking assholes. Stalin a lot, Mao probably less so, Lenin barely at all - truly the Gonzalo archetype.