I noticed a doe/deer option was added at the behest of one of the users here, and I'm new to the neopronoun thing, and they suggested googling to learn more. I did, but I didn't see it included on a list of any sort? Is fulfilling a request for neopronouns something that's specifically catered to vetted veteran members of the site, or can anyone request them? I guess I mean it feels a little in-group/out-group. If it's anything goes, is it conceivable that in a couple years time there could be a pull-down menu of 200 different options, and at what point does it lose meaning or purpose? Like why was cat added, then removed? Can it be reinstated if enough members want it?
Again, it's your site, you can make the rules, and I realize my questions are probably offending a lot of people due to not fully understanding.
Language is what we make of it. I imagine if enough users want it, it can be added back. As a cishet I have no horse in this race beyond not wanting to enable people to be problematic. From my personal experience, the catboy/catgirl thing is fraught. The user who proposed it was a long time troll, but on the other hand I have a close trans internet friend who leans strongly into the cat thing, and I have seen others do it as well - so it is something I have seen happen outside of this website. I suppose there is a whole nuanced debate about where you draw the lines between gender identity, sexuality, and fetish, and self-image. Like, we have furry comrades. Does that fall on the spectrum of gender identity? I don't think so - at least, not exactly. It seems to me like its own spectrum which has some overlaps, but some distinctions as well.
The goal in my opinion should be to make everyone comfortable, but sexuality and gender are pretty complex subjects with some disagreements even within the various subcommunities which make up the LGBTQIA front. As long as the cost to accommodate people is low and nobody is harmed (setting aside the cishet crybabies who have nothing to lose), making these accommodations should be a no-brainer. When there are disagreements, I hope we can foster a productive discussion and advance our understanding of the underlying issues.
I appreciate the response. I ended up doing more reading on neopronouns and found this master list: https://neopronounlist.carrd.co/ (and doe/deer are definitely there)
Do you have any posts explaining why these pronouns give you gender euphoria? Or, in fact, how they're connected to gender... like many here I'm new to the idea of neopronouns. I'd also be happy to read any explanations written by others that you can suggest
fawn actually uses those pronouns, thats why they were added. Doe has had many people attest to that as well. Same goes for pretty much anyone if they so choose. Maybe someday we WILL have 200 pronouns, its not like its a big deal.
@Koa_lala had the suggestion for us to eventually convert the dropdown into one that you could search within, so number of pronouns shouldn't be a problem. :)
Worth pointing out deer-related pronouns can be gendered. A doe is a female deer, a stag is a male deer. Why you wouldn't use he/him and she/her to refer to male and female deer-persons is a reasonable question, imo. I am 100% onboard with accommodating gender identities and expressions, but the other categories deserve some skepticism that they haven't received -- except the cat genders which were removed for being unserious meme options, (unlike the deer and fairy options.)
What does being a fae have to do with gender? I am not saying you can't "be" a fairy person, I am saying there shouldn't be an expectation for anyone else to go along with it. The "nounself" pronouns are very different from the novel non-gendered pronouns without any inherent meaning. I don't think it's being transphobic to not want to call by people by "pronouns" that suggest they are deer or fairies or cats or whatever else. I don't see what it has to do with gender identity, at that point we are talking about otherkin identity or something else.
Fae is an existing word in the form of a noun (meaning fairy folk) and adjective (meaning magical, fairy-like) that someone decided to start using as a pronoun, and other people liked it also decided to use it. It's pretty clear from the history of its usage as a pronoun that the intent was to express a fairy identity.
It is literally a pronoun invented on the spot by my (white, dfab, technically nonbinary although fae does not identify as trans*) friend who’s gender is somewhere between sidhe and angel, fae made it to replace faer previous pronouns of “this one/that one” and alternating between “he” and “she”.
All of these nounself pronouns, as far as I can tell, are intended to express the identity of the original word's meaning, as far as I can tell. What does any of this have to do with gender?
I understand nonbinary genders, and they are entirely valid, I accept them 100%. I am saying that fairy (or sidhe or angel) is not a nonbinary gender, it's a different kind of (non-human) entity. A different (fantasy) species. I also don't think deer is a gender, it's a different species. I don't see why this is controversial to say. Can you identify with or as these other kinds of beings? Sure, absolutely, knock yourself out, it's cool. But what does it have to do with gender or transgender?
People have the right to choose anything for any reason. But other people do not have to go along with what you want them to do. If people are misgendering you, then that is transphobic and should be condemned. If people are refusing to say you are a fairy or a deer or some other kind of being, that has nothing to do with gender. You can choose to identify that way, and choose to have pronouns that other people may agree to use. But random people should be expected to go along with the Otherkin nounself neopronouns, and if they don't, it's not transphobia.
Not if they are insisting I use a pronoun unrelated to comporting with their gender identity. Say somsone am being Otherkin-phobic because they won't use a fairy pronoun, that would be reasonable.
I am not defining anything about you are what you believe about yourself. I am saying people should not be expected to call you by a nounself neopronoun indicating that you are a fairy.
And if someone chooses not to acknowledge your fairy nature by using such a pronoun, they are not being transphobic.
Not if you are trying to shoehorn some other meaning into pronouns, such as being a different species or a mythological creature! That has nothing to do with being trans or nonbinary.
You can repeat that over and over again, but being nonbinary doesn't mean people have to call you a fae, or they are being a transphobe. Identifying as fairy has nothing to do with gender, because fairies themselves have genders! Just like the deer. There are genders of deer i.e. doe vs. stag. So it seems to me it's about shoehorning some non-gender-related identity into "gender" to piggyback it onto the trans issue, and to insist people call you are these other kinds of being. (And if they don't you can accuse them of transphobia.)
Hey, we get it, you just got here from r/stupidpol. It's okay. Seriously. Take a deep breath. They're just sounds that we ascribed meaning to. It all means nothing in the grand scheme of things. We're all suffering in hell world together; if you can make someone happy with something so simple, I can't imagine why you wouldn't. It's not that big of a deal, really. Just make a different sound with your food hole and get off the cross, we could use the wood, lol.
I noticed a doe/deer option was added at the behest of one of the users here, and I'm new to the neopronoun thing, and they suggested googling to learn more. I did, but I didn't see it included on a list of any sort? Is fulfilling a request for neopronouns something that's specifically catered to vetted veteran members of the site, or can anyone request them? I guess I mean it feels a little in-group/out-group. If it's anything goes, is it conceivable that in a couple years time there could be a pull-down menu of 200 different options, and at what point does it lose meaning or purpose? Like why was cat added, then removed? Can it be reinstated if enough members want it?
Again, it's your site, you can make the rules, and I realize my questions are probably offending a lot of people due to not fully understanding.
Language is what we make of it. I imagine if enough users want it, it can be added back. As a cishet I have no horse in this race beyond not wanting to enable people to be problematic. From my personal experience, the catboy/catgirl thing is fraught. The user who proposed it was a long time troll, but on the other hand I have a close trans internet friend who leans strongly into the cat thing, and I have seen others do it as well - so it is something I have seen happen outside of this website. I suppose there is a whole nuanced debate about where you draw the lines between gender identity, sexuality, and fetish, and self-image. Like, we have furry comrades. Does that fall on the spectrum of gender identity? I don't think so - at least, not exactly. It seems to me like its own spectrum which has some overlaps, but some distinctions as well.
The goal in my opinion should be to make everyone comfortable, but sexuality and gender are pretty complex subjects with some disagreements even within the various subcommunities which make up the LGBTQIA front. As long as the cost to accommodate people is low and nobody is harmed (setting aside the cishet crybabies who have nothing to lose), making these accommodations should be a no-brainer. When there are disagreements, I hope we can foster a productive discussion and advance our understanding of the underlying issues.
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Question friend, what's the correct possessive case for doe/deer? Deers?
Tangential note, admins should add the possessive "eirs" for ey/em, makes it a bit more helpful for those not in the know.
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I appreciate the response. I ended up doing more reading on neopronouns and found this master list: https://neopronounlist.carrd.co/ (and doe/deer are definitely there)
Would the mods consider maybe uploading the list?
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I used to know @flirty_fawn before doe went mainstream.
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Do you have any posts explaining why these pronouns give you gender euphoria? Or, in fact, how they're connected to gender... like many here I'm new to the idea of neopronouns. I'd also be happy to read any explanations written by others that you can suggest
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Thanks!
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This is the coolest thing I've learned about in a long time. Thanks!
more and more people are saying it
What's the possessive form?
Doe requested these pronouns, as deer gets gender euphoria from them. These are (deer? deir?) pronouns.
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fawn actually uses those pronouns, thats why they were added. Doe has had many people attest to that as well. Same goes for pretty much anyone if they so choose. Maybe someday we WILL have 200 pronouns, its not like its a big deal.
@Koa_lala had the suggestion for us to eventually convert the dropdown into one that you could search within, so number of pronouns shouldn't be a problem. :)
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maaaaybe idk _
JUST LET US TYPE IN WHATEVER PRONOUNS WE WANT, please.
Yeah how about just a flair system like the old subreddit.
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Yes, a flair system is a great idea. But flair absolutely does not replace pronouns.
Here is a short list for you. Most of them have nothing to do with gender, but rather, other kinds of identities.
https://nonbinary.miraheze.org/wiki/Nounself_pronouns
Worth pointing out deer-related pronouns can be gendered. A doe is a female deer, a stag is a male deer. Why you wouldn't use he/him and she/her to refer to male and female deer-persons is a reasonable question, imo. I am 100% onboard with accommodating gender identities and expressions, but the other categories deserve some skepticism that they haven't received -- except the cat genders which were removed for being unserious meme options, (unlike the deer and fairy options.)
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What does being a fae have to do with gender? I am not saying you can't "be" a fairy person, I am saying there shouldn't be an expectation for anyone else to go along with it. The "nounself" pronouns are very different from the novel non-gendered pronouns without any inherent meaning. I don't think it's being transphobic to not want to call by people by "pronouns" that suggest they are deer or fairies or cats or whatever else. I don't see what it has to do with gender identity, at that point we are talking about otherkin identity or something else.
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Fae is an existing word in the form of a noun (meaning fairy folk) and adjective (meaning magical, fairy-like) that someone decided to start using as a pronoun, and other people liked it also decided to use it. It's pretty clear from the history of its usage as a pronoun that the intent was to express a fairy identity.
Here is a post from 2013 asserting an origin:
https://askanonbinary.tumblr.com/post/66441169269/so-i-saw-the-faefaerfaersfaerself-pronouns-and/amp
All of these nounself pronouns, as far as I can tell, are intended to express the identity of the original word's meaning, as far as I can tell. What does any of this have to do with gender?
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I understand nonbinary genders, and they are entirely valid, I accept them 100%. I am saying that fairy (or sidhe or angel) is not a nonbinary gender, it's a different kind of (non-human) entity. A different (fantasy) species. I also don't think deer is a gender, it's a different species. I don't see why this is controversial to say. Can you identify with or as these other kinds of beings? Sure, absolutely, knock yourself out, it's cool. But what does it have to do with gender or transgender?
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People have the right to choose anything for any reason. But other people do not have to go along with what you want them to do. If people are misgendering you, then that is transphobic and should be condemned. If people are refusing to say you are a fairy or a deer or some other kind of being, that has nothing to do with gender. You can choose to identify that way, and choose to have pronouns that other people may agree to use. But random people should be expected to go along with the Otherkin nounself neopronouns, and if they don't, it's not transphobia.
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Not if they are insisting I use a pronoun unrelated to comporting with their gender identity. Say somsone am being Otherkin-phobic because they won't use a fairy pronoun, that would be reasonable.
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I am not defining anything about you are what you believe about yourself. I am saying people should not be expected to call you by a nounself neopronoun indicating that you are a fairy.
And if someone chooses not to acknowledge your fairy nature by using such a pronoun, they are not being transphobic.
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Not if you are trying to shoehorn some other meaning into pronouns, such as being a different species or a mythological creature! That has nothing to do with being trans or nonbinary.
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You can repeat that over and over again, but being nonbinary doesn't mean people have to call you a fae, or they are being a transphobe. Identifying as fairy has nothing to do with gender, because fairies themselves have genders! Just like the deer. There are genders of deer i.e. doe vs. stag. So it seems to me it's about shoehorning some non-gender-related identity into "gender" to piggyback it onto the trans issue, and to insist people call you are these other kinds of being. (And if they don't you can accuse them of transphobia.)
Hey, we get it, you just got here from r/stupidpol. It's okay. Seriously. Take a deep breath. They're just sounds that we ascribed meaning to. It all means nothing in the grand scheme of things. We're all suffering in hell world together; if you can make someone happy with something so simple, I can't imagine why you wouldn't. It's not that big of a deal, really. Just make a different sound with your food hole and get off the cross, we could use the wood, lol.
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