I don't really get the idea that people are somehow going to be 'more against' the genocide in Gaza because Trump is in office. Sure, people protested for George Floyd. You know what they didn't protest at all? The killing of Soleimani. In fact I can't think of a single foreign policy initiative that liberals protested other than the visit with Kim Jong-Un, the only good foreign policy thing that Trump did during his presidency.
The people that are currently protesting the Gaza genocide will continue to protest no matter who is in office. The people who are not are not going to have some sort of come to Jesus moment because the cheeto got elected.
The killing of Soleimani. In fact I can't think of a single foreign policy initiative that liberals protested other than the visit with Kim Jong-Un, the only good foreign policy thing that Trump did during his presidency.
If history is any guide, at best they’ll protest the procedure of Trump’s support of the genocide. Trump won’t follow some meaningless rubber stamping process of the shipping of arms to Israel and then the libs will say “this is wrong we’re against this” but not because of the genocide but because Trump didn’t follow the by-laws of supporting a genocide.
but because Trump didn’t follow the by-laws of supporting a genocide.
Current administration also don't, Biden pushed arms shipment around procedures and Blinken completely lawlessly blocked recognition of human rights violations (mildly speaking) which would automatically stop weapon shipments.
Oh yeah to be clear I do not think it will change the math on Gaza that much. I meant all of the issues generally, but immigration is the main one I think Trump is actually the lesser evil on.
Biden deported more people than Trump. They’ve managed to actually implement Trump’s immigration policy, which when Trump attempted to do he was unable to, due to opposition from both Dem politicians and the general public. I think Dems have greater freedom to be strict on immigration than Republicans do, because when Dems do it everyone falls in line.
Yeah fair on immigration especially. I have doubts that Trump would be able to ram through some of the policies that Biden has gotten through, especially if Democrats take control of the house.
ETA: I generally have the opinion that Trump winning and the Democrats taking control of the house is the "best" thing that could happen, but I have zero faith that anything will change foreign-policy wise no matter who wins this election.
They’ve managed to actually implement Trump’s immigration policy, which when Trump attempted to do
When it worked for "we actually built the wall that Trump promised", why wouldn't that repeat with "we actually did the mass deportations that Trump called for"? Lesser evilism doesn't work either way, things get worse from legislature to legislature under either party. Republicans are more adapt at pushing boundaries, Democrats are more adapt at technocratic efficiency. These things are not at odds with each other, they tie into each other and are both part of the same machinery.
The war is gonna escalate, and under Trump the liberal media is gonna be allowed to criticize his handling (under Biden they aren't allowed). That's enough for quite a lot more Gen X and millenials who get their news from the TV or from the NYT to feel a leftwards push.
People were going mad about kids in cages too, and the drone bombings for a little while. Not to mention civil rights. But yeah the one time he was "presidential" was when he dropped a big bomb in the middle east.
I still think he's better though, but that's because he's a buffoon and an isolationist. I think we'd still be in Afghanistan if it hadn't been for him
Some lib told me that Biden ended the drone war and I shot back "why are there burning MQ-9s all over Yemen" and they picked up the goal posts and started sprinting with them.
The people that are currently protesting the Gaza genocide will continue to protest no matter who is in office.
Absolutely, but Trump will spend more time demonizing them as antisemitic terrorist supporters. He's always been rabidly zionist and has always loved using leftist grassroots movements as a bogeyman, he's not gonna pass that opportunity up. Idk if that would translate into more actual repression against them, but islamophobia dressed up as fighting terrorism traditionally has a lot of traction in the US, and i do not see the Dems pushing back against that even if they would control both houses after the midterms, genocide support is a bipartisan issue after all and they will falter when Trump links the Dems to the protests like he did with BLM. It's also possible that Trump lays the ideological groundwork for more effective anti-left policies under a Dem presidency from 2028-2032. He's good at normalizing atrocities, and the Dems have shown to be eager to then implement that (see also: deportations and the Dems bragging about how they actually built the wall that Trump promised). There can absolutely be a ratchet effect in this regard.
I could also see Trump being more supportive of the genocide itself. More bombs, more open endorsement, more troops on the ground. Biden has already sent missile defense crews there, i think this still has potential for escalation, as hard as that is to imagine for many people here.
Mind you, i'm not doing a lesser evilism here, it's the morally correct choice not to pick between hand-wringing and enthusiastic genocide, but to treat this as a line that can't be crossed either way. But it's absolutely possible that things will get worse in this regard under Trump.
I don't really get the idea that people are somehow going to be 'more against' the genocide in Gaza because Trump is in office. Sure, people protested for George Floyd. You know what they didn't protest at all? The killing of Soleimani. In fact I can't think of a single foreign policy initiative that liberals protested other than the visit with Kim Jong-Un, the only good foreign policy thing that Trump did during his presidency.
The people that are currently protesting the Gaza genocide will continue to protest no matter who is in office. The people who are not are not going to have some sort of come to Jesus moment because the cheeto got elected.
yes
glory DPRK
If history is any guide, at best they’ll protest the procedure of Trump’s support of the genocide. Trump won’t follow some meaningless rubber stamping process of the shipping of arms to Israel and then the libs will say “this is wrong we’re against this” but not because of the genocide but because Trump didn’t follow the by-laws of supporting a genocide.
Current administration also don't, Biden pushed arms shipment around procedures and Blinken completely lawlessly blocked recognition of human rights violations (mildly speaking) which would automatically stop weapon shipments.
Oh yeah to be clear I do not think it will change the math on Gaza that much. I meant all of the issues generally, but immigration is the main one I think Trump is actually the lesser evil on.
Biden deported more people than Trump. They’ve managed to actually implement Trump’s immigration policy, which when Trump attempted to do he was unable to, due to opposition from both Dem politicians and the general public. I think Dems have greater freedom to be strict on immigration than Republicans do, because when Dems do it everyone falls in line.
Yeah fair on immigration especially. I have doubts that Trump would be able to ram through some of the policies that Biden has gotten through, especially if Democrats take control of the house.
ETA: I generally have the opinion that Trump winning and the Democrats taking control of the house is the "best" thing that could happen, but I have zero faith that anything will change foreign-policy wise no matter who wins this election.
I fully agree, Trump president with Dem Congress is absolutely the least bad option
When it worked for "we actually built the wall that Trump promised", why wouldn't that repeat with "we actually did the mass deportations that Trump called for"? Lesser evilism doesn't work either way, things get worse from legislature to legislature under either party. Republicans are more adapt at pushing boundaries, Democrats are more adapt at technocratic efficiency. These things are not at odds with each other, they tie into each other and are both part of the same machinery.
The war is gonna escalate, and under Trump the liberal media is gonna be allowed to criticize his handling (under Biden they aren't allowed). That's enough for quite a lot more Gen X and millenials who get their news from the TV or from the NYT to feel a leftwards push.
People were going mad about kids in cages too, and the drone bombings for a little while. Not to mention civil rights. But yeah the one time he was "presidential" was when he dropped a big bomb in the middle east.
I still think he's better though, but that's because he's a buffoon and an isolationist. I think we'd still be in Afghanistan if it hadn't been for him
Some lib told me that Biden ended the drone war and I shot back "why are there burning MQ-9s all over Yemen" and they picked up the goal posts and started sprinting with them.
Absolutely, but Trump will spend more time demonizing them as antisemitic terrorist supporters. He's always been rabidly zionist and has always loved using leftist grassroots movements as a bogeyman, he's not gonna pass that opportunity up. Idk if that would translate into more actual repression against them, but islamophobia dressed up as fighting terrorism traditionally has a lot of traction in the US, and i do not see the Dems pushing back against that even if they would control both houses after the midterms, genocide support is a bipartisan issue after all and they will falter when Trump links the Dems to the protests like he did with BLM. It's also possible that Trump lays the ideological groundwork for more effective anti-left policies under a Dem presidency from 2028-2032. He's good at normalizing atrocities, and the Dems have shown to be eager to then implement that (see also: deportations and the Dems bragging about how they actually built the wall that Trump promised). There can absolutely be a ratchet effect in this regard.
I could also see Trump being more supportive of the genocide itself. More bombs, more open endorsement, more troops on the ground. Biden has already sent missile defense crews there, i think this still has potential for escalation, as hard as that is to imagine for many people here.
Mind you, i'm not doing a lesser evilism here, it's the morally correct choice not to pick between hand-wringing and enthusiastic genocide, but to treat this as a line that can't be crossed either way. But it's absolutely possible that things will get worse in this regard under Trump.