Just took a deep drive into the drama lmao. I agree I don’t see why people need to get in some moral high horse. Like just don’t send the money, no point in bitching about it. I wouldn’t send the money either honestly but it’s not like I can blame you for asking
Haha, no, I'm a recovered heroin addict and work with addicts and this approach of "I'll only ever help you if you submit to a round of withdrawals to show you're worth helping," is only one attitude among many.
I think some recovered addicts look back on their own experience and think "yes when I got sober it was because things were really awful and I finally got serious and other addicts can only get clean if things are awful enough [rock bottom myth] ...and if they fail they are not 'serious.'"
Perhaps that was indeed true for you, but it wasn't for me and it's not for many people. I made several extremely serious attempts at sobriety before I was successful. The time I got and stayed clean was not the lowest point in my addiction history.
The most important thing in my mind for helping addicts is making them feel like they are still a part of a community and they have value and that getting sober would mean they could connect to that community even more and fufill all that potential. So... treating them as adult human beings.: "If I had the money to spare to help you, I would, because i know you're in a tough spot, but I'm trying to be there for a few different people... and I can't be of financial assistance, only emotional and transport assistance." Which is true... if I were a millionaire I'd absolutely give them money. Withholding money and resources does not cure addiction. We wish it were that simple. Research shows addicts are more likely to recover if they have more resources. actually. So much for rock bottom...
I also hope you'll look at the research on different ways of treating opiate addiction. "Inpatient" is usually not the most effective treatment model. Outpatient, Medication- Assisted Therapy (buprenorphine/Suboxone) over 1-2 years combined with one- on- one addiction counseling has the highest success rate. It allows addicts to learn how to be sober in the context of their own lives, and avoids withdrawals - severe withdrawals decrease success.
I respect you and your experience, which is why I think it's worth discussing the differences in approach.
I definitely wanted to get sober. I think most people who say they want to get sober are telling the truth. It's just very, very hard to accomplish. There's a lot of immediate suffering for what's hopefully a long term payoff - and that's the exact opposite of the addiction mindset, you know?
So I kept trying, and eventually succeeded. I definitely used again after the worst period (which you can only identify in retrospect). I learned a little each attempt and the final one was a lucky combination and I had a shred of hope for the future.
Which is why I really think giving addicts resources, support, and hope is a better bet than the framing that negative things are happening and will keep happening until they get sober. (And I'm not saying it's a dichotomy and you're all about the latter).
And of course you can and should only help in the ways that are safe and healthy for you. It's so common for recovered addicts to want to work with other addicts but it has its dangers too, which we must stay vigilant about. Not helping because it's unhealthy for you is a good enough reason all in its own! It's independent from the question of whether or would help or hurt the addict.
This rock bottom shit is not based on any science though. Sometimes people just kinda get their shit together but not totally. In Norway they offer housing to drug addicts not contingent on testing or therapy whatsoever. They don’t usually get clean, and a lot of the times they eventually die. But it’s less likely and well it’s just a nice thing to do. The rock bottom stuff is pure ideology. The real rock bottom is death.
Also, I don’t think we can determine for others what they need to do. If someone wants to get high until they die as grim as it might seem they have control over their own life. Doesn’t mean it’s not a nice thing to do to give them money. It’ll still improve things for them.
With that said if you have better things to spend your money on I can’t blame you, I don’t give money because frankly I need it myself. And there is lots of other stuff you can give your energy to if you want.
But the moralizing is gross. As are the claims on how other people should live their life if we care about them. Give money or don’t it’s fine but shaming is controlling and unhelpful
I'm glad you commented these thoughts. I'm a recovered addict who works with addicts and I commented my experiences in reply to amethystamiss too.
Myself and many addicts get clean after many attempts... and the successful attempt is usually when there's some hope and support in the picture. The opposite of rock bottom.
It's hard as a recovered addict to even wrap your head around how you came to be successfully sober after so much hardship and failure to do so. I can see why many just adopt the AA/NA mythology of "I finally hit rock bottom," or "I finally took responsibility for my addiction,".... it's an easier narrative than "my tenth attempt was good timing, a decent treatment model, and a dose of luck," which is how it feels to me.
I'm a huge proponent of giving addicts resources regardless of their sobriety or even their intentions regarding sobriety. One of the most important messages to them is that they are still a part of society, they are not broken off from it... that there's a decent life waiting for them on the other side.
I can’t not do drugs or else I’ll detox at work and get drug tested and fired
Does this mean you don't plan to get off drugs in the near future? Do you have a plan you'll follow to "get clean" this time? I'm very confused about everything you've posted (and other users say… some of them obvious trolls). If it's an invasive question then ignore it.
Just took a deep drive into the drama lmao. I agree I don’t see why people need to get in some moral high horse. Like just don’t send the money, no point in bitching about it. I wouldn’t send the money either honestly but it’s not like I can blame you for asking
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Haha, no, I'm a recovered heroin addict and work with addicts and this approach of "I'll only ever help you if you submit to a round of withdrawals to show you're worth helping," is only one attitude among many.
I think some recovered addicts look back on their own experience and think "yes when I got sober it was because things were really awful and I finally got serious and other addicts can only get clean if things are awful enough [rock bottom myth] ...and if they fail they are not 'serious.'"
Perhaps that was indeed true for you, but it wasn't for me and it's not for many people. I made several extremely serious attempts at sobriety before I was successful. The time I got and stayed clean was not the lowest point in my addiction history.
The most important thing in my mind for helping addicts is making them feel like they are still a part of a community and they have value and that getting sober would mean they could connect to that community even more and fufill all that potential. So... treating them as adult human beings.: "If I had the money to spare to help you, I would, because i know you're in a tough spot, but I'm trying to be there for a few different people... and I can't be of financial assistance, only emotional and transport assistance." Which is true... if I were a millionaire I'd absolutely give them money. Withholding money and resources does not cure addiction. We wish it were that simple. Research shows addicts are more likely to recover if they have more resources. actually. So much for rock bottom...
I also hope you'll look at the research on different ways of treating opiate addiction. "Inpatient" is usually not the most effective treatment model. Outpatient, Medication- Assisted Therapy (buprenorphine/Suboxone) over 1-2 years combined with one- on- one addiction counseling has the highest success rate. It allows addicts to learn how to be sober in the context of their own lives, and avoids withdrawals - severe withdrawals decrease success.
I respect you and your experience, which is why I think it's worth discussing the differences in approach.
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I definitely wanted to get sober. I think most people who say they want to get sober are telling the truth. It's just very, very hard to accomplish. There's a lot of immediate suffering for what's hopefully a long term payoff - and that's the exact opposite of the addiction mindset, you know?
So I kept trying, and eventually succeeded. I definitely used again after the worst period (which you can only identify in retrospect). I learned a little each attempt and the final one was a lucky combination and I had a shred of hope for the future.
Which is why I really think giving addicts resources, support, and hope is a better bet than the framing that negative things are happening and will keep happening until they get sober. (And I'm not saying it's a dichotomy and you're all about the latter).
And of course you can and should only help in the ways that are safe and healthy for you. It's so common for recovered addicts to want to work with other addicts but it has its dangers too, which we must stay vigilant about. Not helping because it's unhealthy for you is a good enough reason all in its own! It's independent from the question of whether or would help or hurt the addict.
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This rock bottom shit is not based on any science though. Sometimes people just kinda get their shit together but not totally. In Norway they offer housing to drug addicts not contingent on testing or therapy whatsoever. They don’t usually get clean, and a lot of the times they eventually die. But it’s less likely and well it’s just a nice thing to do. The rock bottom stuff is pure ideology. The real rock bottom is death.
Also, I don’t think we can determine for others what they need to do. If someone wants to get high until they die as grim as it might seem they have control over their own life. Doesn’t mean it’s not a nice thing to do to give them money. It’ll still improve things for them.
With that said if you have better things to spend your money on I can’t blame you, I don’t give money because frankly I need it myself. And there is lots of other stuff you can give your energy to if you want.
But the moralizing is gross. As are the claims on how other people should live their life if we care about them. Give money or don’t it’s fine but shaming is controlling and unhelpful
I'm glad you commented these thoughts. I'm a recovered addict who works with addicts and I commented my experiences in reply to amethystamiss too.
Myself and many addicts get clean after many attempts... and the successful attempt is usually when there's some hope and support in the picture. The opposite of rock bottom.
It's hard as a recovered addict to even wrap your head around how you came to be successfully sober after so much hardship and failure to do so. I can see why many just adopt the AA/NA mythology of "I finally hit rock bottom," or "I finally took responsibility for my addiction,".... it's an easier narrative than "my tenth attempt was good timing, a decent treatment model, and a dose of luck," which is how it feels to me.
I'm a huge proponent of giving addicts resources regardless of their sobriety or even their intentions regarding sobriety. One of the most important messages to them is that they are still a part of society, they are not broken off from it... that there's a decent life waiting for them on the other side.
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Does this mean you don't plan to get off drugs in the near future? Do you have a plan you'll follow to "get clean" this time? I'm very confused about everything you've posted (and other users say… some of them obvious trolls). If it's an invasive question then ignore it.
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I'm not getting involved in this because I have no idea what's going on (all I got is that I hope people stop hurting) but this take asdfghjkl.
Uhh who called me?
Oh is asdfghjkl your full name? I bet you go: Please, asdfghjkl was my father. Call me aaaaaaadjsf.
:agony-turbo: