Not saying you should vote for Biden, I think you should not (and instead vote for something cool like, idk, PSL or whatever the fuck you guys can vote for, just to give them enough votes for the uptick to be on the radar). But when you're talking to people who are going to vote for Biden, just don't dwell too much on the thing. It's not worth it, it is quite likely you will just piss them off, and chances are you won't convince them. If you want to talk about how both Trump and Biden suck, alright. It's just... I can see how this could push their buttons very easily. Just my opinion.
This 💯 it's frankly embarrassing how much time we have spent talking about voting. Let them vote, who cares.
Yeah, I don't think it's a topic worth fighting about. Just dump the basic "elections are theater to control the working class" and whatnot on them, and quickly agree to disagree.
people like to be subversive and find being normal in order to radicalize lame. think of all the anti natalists calling chapo hosts basically fash for rightly pointing out you seem crazy to any normal person.
you can be weird online idgaf but keep it away from your everyday convos at wallmart that are ripe for changing minds subtly.
but hey thats just my take 🤷♂️
not voting is just another choice in the electoral system, imo being anti-voting shouldn't be in your top 5 political positions, there are so many more important things to do
Don't shame people. Electorialism is a fuck, voting is sometimes good. Focus on the disappointment of Biden and is overseas policy issues, how you can't blame anarchists and revolutionaries for not voting for someone their own political theory fairly strictly tells them not to, and that the vote is basically a conscience vote.
People are so fucking desperate to make their vote (or lack of vote) some sort of act of moral heavy lifting.
That's what been driving me up a wall with this shit. Of all the liberal VOTE screeds I've subjected myself to (because I'm a masochist), CP falls for this shit the hardest, which is particularly infuriating because she was working on a phd in philosophy.
Your moral imperative has to be based on actions that effect the world around you. Voting in a national election, in which most of the states are basically already decided before a single ballot is cast and your only have two options, is as far as you can get from directly effecting the world while still doing something. You might as well be making morals about minecraft or something. If you're a dem voting in NY, CA, or IL, the presidential election is literally minecraft in that nothing you do will have any impact on anything outside of your personal experiences.
And before you even bring it up, fuck off with Kant and his categorical imperative.
There are some issues you just have to humor lib insanity on to some extent, when it's deeply embedded
like voting, Russiagate, Obama being a piece of shit; all these things have to be addressed but not really issues you want to lead with
Because 99% of Americans are too alienated from the process of production, we only know consumption. Even if you work in a T-Shirt factory, you still are so removed from the harvesting of cotton and polymers, weaving, dying, and transportation, etc. Americans cannot exist a world without $5 t-shirts because they don't know how much human suffering goes into it to make it $5.
Like everything else in this broken land this statement forgets about the existence of black people
They have a history of revolutionary struggle and aren't like white america in the sense of being majority mindless reactionaries, but technically yes.
This might work on some people. I can see this working on some "independents" and a very specific type of boomer, also known as doomer boomer. Also on very apolitical types. It's actually one of the excuses some apolitical types present, when the real reason they're not voting is because they don't care enough to vote. I don't see it working on most libs, and even less on politically active/somewhat aware libs.
idk i can see it working on working class apolitical libs too. especially if you frame it as a matter of trust. like i just cant trust anyone in that position collecting money to do the right thing, and discuss how money corrupts even democrats even though you “sympathize” with them. (you don’t but people only have 2 options right wing psycho or centrist democrats who label themselves “progressives” (they aren’t of course)
If it does work, it might be bad. Like, it's very likely you'll just confirm to them they gotta stay away from politics. As I said, chances are they can't understand why that is yet.
What's worse than buying into the mythology that your vote counts? Believing that the person you're trying to convince vote counts.
it's sad and probably an op that not voting or vote spoiling is our thing.
Trying to shame people about their voting habits have been repeatedly shown to be the most useless way to talk politics with someone. If you do break through to them, chances are all you'll do is disenfranchise them and make them give up generally on participating in politics.
Probably a better hill to die on is with making the case against the Democrats on the basis of class politics.
I tried telling one of my friends I was either voting third party or not voting at all. He freaked out and told me how I was actually voting for Trump. Instead of trying to argue I just told him that I was kidding. I had to lie to him and say that I voted for Biden otherwise I wouldn't hear the end to it. It's just not worth the time arguing.
It’s just not worth the time arguing.
That's where you're wrong bucko :agony-consuming:
