We're as atomized and alienated as ever, but now we also can't afford to buy a house or raise kids. Libs will celebrate this.

  • Rem [she/her]
    1·
    4 years ago

    The same amount of property ownership is going on. It's just increasingly owned by a landlord instead of the people living there. That's not an improvement.

          • FoolishPosadas [any]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Small business owners are impossible to radicalize because they are not the proletariat. Working home owners still have material struggles besides for housing.

              • Young_Lando [none/use name]
                1·
                4 years ago

                The fuck? There are people who work for a living so they can buy a place to live. The fact that it is a capital asset and literally a necessity for life is not the fault of the working class person. If you live in the thing you own, it's fuckin yours. Renters should also own the homes they live in and essentially pay mortgage on.

                Let's not lose the ball here. The problem is not the person who owns their own home-- it's literal capitalists who flip houses for $$$

              • Pezevenk [he/him]
                1·
                4 years ago

                Homeowners don't have employees to exploit their value and they can be wage slaves like everyone else. They can't exploit the value of their house so simply because, well, that's where they live in, they can't like rent it out unless they move out themselves in which case they have to start paying rent and it is usually a net loss and a hassle. In many countries home ownership rates are much, much higher than the US, and they are far more class conscious.

                People don't have a blindspot, it's just that your analysis is weird, and comes from the "good things are actually bad" school of thought. It is funny that you say "American leftists" because America actually has an unusually low home ownership rate especially among developed countries. Leftists living in countries with higher home ownership rates don't share this illusion.

                  • Pezevenk [he/him]
                    1·
                    4 years ago

                    Cars are capital. Owning a car makes you a capitalist. Computers are capital. Owning a computer makes you a capitalist. Basically the only way to not be a capitalist and be prone to become class conscious is if you're homeless and naked.

                    Also if you don't secretly hate everyone, you're a liberal and a revisionist.

              • FoolishPosadas [any]
                1·
                4 years ago

                Is that asset enough to turn them away from the struggles of their own class though? Hell, I know a good deal of leftist's who still put into 401k for retirement. Those are capital assets are they not? People have to survive, and it doesn't look like capital is gonna fall anytime soon, who can fault someone for wanting to build a life for themselves. Obvious it's not the most ideal circumstances for radicalization but wanting less people to own homes so it's easier to push them left kinda sounds like accelerationism.

                  • FoolishPosadas [any]
                    1·
                    4 years ago

                    Uhhh, do you have a source for that claim? There are a million other factors at work that keep us from reducing pricing on houses. The availability of housing isn't really the biggest issue.

        • Leon_Grotsky [comrade/them]
          ·
          4 years ago

          It’s almost impossible to make a homeowner class conscious though.

          At the same time, they need to be taught that it is BAD.

          Because UncutRichardJewells is not doing a very good job of presenting their argument. I see, understand, and tentatively agree with a few points, but I had to go through the whole thread a second time to get there.

          • CenkUygurCamp [none/use name]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Yeah, first they start of by saying "This [deterioration of conditions] should be celebrated", with the implication that now people can become proletarians. Only then to later concede that individuals having a decent life is still good but the current form of home ownership does impede class consciousness (which is correct). That, the hostile tone and remarks plus only starting to explain their ideas bit by bit after being pressed by repliers multiple times, make this a horrible way of arguing the right position. Like, this isn't twitter; you can type long comments and expect good faith interpretations. No need for this.

            Think of NIMBYs, YIMBYs and the general scaremongering about 'property values' to create opposition to decent policy. Being a homeowner in these general conditions will put you in the camp of small business tyrants if you aren't convinced that social democracy is good at the very least.