I have a question I'd like to ask that will most likely start a struggle session, but i'ma ask anyway: do you guys believe that there is a problem of Islamic extremism in France and, if so, how do you think it ought to be addressed? I am not saying France doesn't have issues with racism and Islamophobia, because they obviously do, and I also do think that Macron's recent use of the term "islamo-leftism" to denounce gender, race, and post-colonial studies is both racist and hilariously stupid. With that said, what do you guys think is the best way to address the recent killings?
Also, at the risk of greatly increasing the possibility of a struggle session, I may as well ask if/how the issue of terrorism in Xinjiang compares to the situation in France, and whether a similar re-education policy would useful. Also I swear I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I've just been mulling this over and this is basically the only place on the internet where I can ask these questions and expect sane responses. Thanks for reading.
Hello comrade, I'm Muslim myself and I've to France multiple times, so I would be happy to explain.
France does not have a problem with Islamic terrorism per se, but it has a problem with crime by frustrated working class people in general. In a recent episode of Chapo, Felix made a good comment, he said that "the frontier always comes back home", and I feel that it's a very fitting comment for what's happening in France. After exploiting the shit out of poor African and Caribbean countries by regular colonialism and then with the shackles of loans and "protection", France later allowed millions of poor Algerians, Moroccans, Malians, Senegalese and other people to immigrate to France and live in borderline ghettos in order to work minimum wage in France. Immigrant-majority areas are incredibly sad in terms of the lack of maintenance and how little opportunity working class people really have in a racist culture that doesn't explicitly allow any other identity than French. The desperation and frustration in those areas simply manifests itself in different ways, some people turn to drugs and alcohol, some people turn to chasing the dream of becoming an athlete and leaving the place, and some people turn to God for answers. And like expected frustrated and defeated people won't preach about love, compassion and kindness, they preach about destroying the social order that facilitates their exploitation. So it's just natural that so many young poor Muslims turn into monsters, because French society actively created those monsters by accepting the dire economic conditions of immigrants in general
Hi comrade! I know my response to this post is very late, I was having personal issues and didn't check my inbox for several weeks. I just wanted to let you know that: (a) I was really hoping to hear from a Muslim comrade, so thanks for your response! and (b) this provides some really good insight into the difficulties faced my Muslims in France. I especially really appreciated this comment:
how little opportunity working class people really have in a racist culture that doesn’t explicitly allow any other identity than French
Thanks for your response, it has definitely given me some good perspective!
No, France has a legitimate problem with imperialism and colonialism and the chickens are coming home to roost.
Do you guys believe that there is a problem of Islamic extremism in France?
No. Not really.
There's occasional attacks. Big ones every few years, like the Paris bombings, but mostly it's small scale, lone wolf incidents. These are random violent crimes. Despite what ISIS and the Islamaphobes want you to think, they are not an existential threat to French society. They are not part of a war. There's no political direction to them. No leadership, organisation, or purpose they serve. Just alienated people, searching for meaning, lashing out against society.
I may as well ask if/how the issue of terrorism in Xinjiang compares to the situation in France, and whether a similar re-education policy would useful.
No. France experimented with voluntary deradicaliszation centers and they failed. Turns out, no radical will voluntarily subject themselves to enemy propaganda in the hopes it will make them a better person. It did create useful opportunities for jihadists to meet up and form networks.
Adopting a larger scale, compulsory version of the program will not improve things. It will show the true French colours to the world and then there will be a real problem.
Long term, I don't think it will work in Xinjiang. China's trying to brute force the problem. Massive surveillance, massive incarceration, massive expansion of the police force. I don't think that's sustainable.
The French deradicaliszation camps were voluntary, so hardly anyone showed up. Those that did probably weren't the problem.
If France were to implement the Xinjiang methods, a few key differences would be apparant. First, they wouldn't invest in Muslim-inhabited neighborhoods like China is. Partially for reasons of racism, partially for reasons of neoliberalism. Second, China's leadership is not religious. Macron is openly Catholic and even got ordained by the Pope on a diplomatic mission. What in China is an antiterrorism campaign would, in France, be a religious crusade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France#21st_century
Asside from two attacks in 2015 and '16, these were all very small. More like murders and violent hate crimes than what we'd typically imagine as a terrorist attack. Only one showed any sort of organization and planning.
A good analogy would be mass shootings in America. More frequent than they should be. Each one is tragic, but on the whole, they don't amount to anything. They'd be a blip on the radar if not for those with an agenda to push.
