Doesn't it scare liberals that they're essentially defending Trump? Most of them are now full on admitting now that the migrant situation is complex and now the new justification is "well what else are we going to do with the minors?". It scares me that liberals will pretty much justify any horrible action because there's a convenenient reason for it. We should be asking ourselves is "why are we jailing migrants", not justifying it to ourselves "oh its ok because the migrant's living condition has improved slightly!". Would FDR be suddenly be justified in the Japanese internment camps if he decided to give the Japanese hotel suites before he contained them for the sake of "bettering morale around the war" or because they might be potwential spies? We should be looking at the essence of the reality, not use whatever bullshit justification the media/liberals or Biden administration try to use to make themselves feel better when in reality its just a function of capitalism that alliows this.
I don't see how AOC specifically is defending this action as in the tweet before this she said "This is not okay, never has been okay, never will be okay - no matter the administration or party"
She's condemning the specific conditions, the nature of the American immigration system, and the profiting off of incarceration.
I don't remember her comparing Trump's policies to the Holocaust. Mostly that's a conclusion people lept to on their own after hearing "concentration camp," but the most Holocaust like elements were the separation of children from their families, forced sterilization, and overcrowding leading to unsafe conditions.
This is a holding facility (call it a camp if you want, pointless semantics) for children who arive alone and being opened to reduce crowding.
All her takes are correct here. You do need a facility. You can't leave children with no legal guardian, no money, and no place to stay to fend for themselves. This facility is bad. For profit incarceration is bad. Incarceration based immigration systems are bad. Of course, you didn't read that, did you?
would Hitler suddenly be an ok person to give the Jews hotel suites before he killed them all
This is exactly the sort of insane argument that results from things like calling this facility a concentration camp. These kids aren’t marked for extermination. You’d be better off actually proposing alternatives for what to do with 12 year olds who show up to the US without their parents than saying Biden is Hitler for the way it’s being handled.
I didn't see someone calling it an extermination camp? They're not vastly dissimilar in design or function to the earlier concentration camp system for 'protective custody' (prior to the war, attempt at larger scale slave labour and influx of prisoners as they imprisoned more Jewish, gay, Roma people, and prior to the full swing towards extermination with Soviet POWs)
A place for children without parents to stay for one to two months while we find a place for them to live is not “vastly dissimilar in design or function” from a slave labor camp? Really?
I think you missed the bit where I carved out the slave labour? And yes - at a minimum they should let the kids run around some fields, hire some teachers, social workers etc. instead of providing the minimum necessary for them to survive before shunting them off to sponsors
The article about this facility does mention a soccer field, basketball court and classrooms (which implies teachers), I don’t know the status of social workers at the facility or not.
Sorry I misunderstood your wording about excepting slave labor, but even putting that aside, this does literally have the exact opposite function of being a place designed to process these children into a society, not remove them from it as undesirables. So I don’t see how the comparison to Hitler which I was responding to is valid or useful.
I did read the article and others fawning about a visit they had, and I am remain pretty dubious. These places always have huge staffing problems, particularly when they're situated in the middle of nowhere, and if you can even get the kids to go to one of few classrooms, there are no assessments of education level so they get dumped in a one size fits all basic class teaching kids aged 13 to 17. Sex segregation intensifies those problems too.
I agree the comparison to Hitler is unhelpful, particularly because everyone thinks about extermination camps and not concentration camps, of which the earlier iterations are pretty similar to most detention facilities.
I was reading that they're usually placed with family too, so it's unclear to me why more resources aren't put into that component - apparently they only just started subsiding transport to take the kids to their placements too?
The facility in question is only being used because all the facilities have been reduced to half capacity to reduce risk of COVID outbreaks. It would seem we can’t really discuss this on this site without being extremely disingenuous about it.
Yep this is for sure the same thing as the Holocaust, it’s not like the whole reason this facility is in use is because all the facilities have been reduced to half capacity to reduce the risk of disease outbreaks, it’s not like these children are being processed into our society after showing up alone at the border, which is the exact opposite thing of hunting people like Anne Frank down for removal from society as undesirables. It’s the same thing, we should keep making this comparison.
Doesn't it scare liberals that they're essentially defending Trump? Most of them are now full on admitting now that the migrant situation is complex and now the new justification is "well what else are we going to do with the minors?". It scares me that liberals will pretty much justify any horrible action because there's a convenenient reason for it. We should be asking ourselves is "why are we jailing migrants", not justifying it to ourselves "oh its ok because the migrant's living condition has improved slightly!". Would FDR be suddenly be justified in the Japanese internment camps if he decided to give the Japanese hotel suites before he contained them for the sake of "bettering morale around the war" or because they might be potwential spies? We should be looking at the essence of the reality, not use whatever bullshit justification the media/liberals or Biden administration try to use to make themselves feel better when in reality its just a function of capitalism that alliows this.
Edited out Hitler comparison.
I don't see how AOC specifically is defending this action as in the tweet before this she said "This is not okay, never has been okay, never will be okay - no matter the administration or party"
Yet she's no longer throwing around Holocaust comparisons
Because it's a different situation?
She's condemning the specific conditions, the nature of the American immigration system, and the profiting off of incarceration.
I don't remember her comparing Trump's policies to the Holocaust. Mostly that's a conclusion people lept to on their own after hearing "concentration camp," but the most Holocaust like elements were the separation of children from their families, forced sterilization, and overcrowding leading to unsafe conditions.
This is a holding facility (call it a camp if you want, pointless semantics) for children who arive alone and being opened to reduce crowding.
All her takes are correct here. You do need a facility. You can't leave children with no legal guardian, no money, and no place to stay to fend for themselves. This facility is bad. For profit incarceration is bad. Incarceration based immigration systems are bad. Of course, you didn't read that, did you?
She's the one who engaged in the semantics in the first place and now the chickens are coming home to roost
Semantics meaning... Using words to express opinions?
This is exactly the sort of insane argument that results from things like calling this facility a concentration camp. These kids aren’t marked for extermination. You’d be better off actually proposing alternatives for what to do with 12 year olds who show up to the US without their parents than saying Biden is Hitler for the way it’s being handled.
An extermination camp exterminates.
Right, and that’s not what the facility in question is or does. Should we not try to be accurate when talking about these problems?
I didn't see someone calling it an extermination camp? They're not vastly dissimilar in design or function to the earlier concentration camp system for 'protective custody' (prior to the war, attempt at larger scale slave labour and influx of prisoners as they imprisoned more Jewish, gay, Roma people, and prior to the full swing towards extermination with Soviet POWs)
A place for children without parents to stay for one to two months while we find a place for them to live is not “vastly dissimilar in design or function” from a slave labor camp? Really?
I think you missed the bit where I carved out the slave labour? And yes - at a minimum they should let the kids run around some fields, hire some teachers, social workers etc. instead of providing the minimum necessary for them to survive before shunting them off to sponsors
The article about this facility does mention a soccer field, basketball court and classrooms (which implies teachers), I don’t know the status of social workers at the facility or not.
Sorry I misunderstood your wording about excepting slave labor, but even putting that aside, this does literally have the exact opposite function of being a place designed to process these children into a society, not remove them from it as undesirables. So I don’t see how the comparison to Hitler which I was responding to is valid or useful.
I did read the article and others fawning about a visit they had, and I am remain pretty dubious. These places always have huge staffing problems, particularly when they're situated in the middle of nowhere, and if you can even get the kids to go to one of few classrooms, there are no assessments of education level so they get dumped in a one size fits all basic class teaching kids aged 13 to 17. Sex segregation intensifies those problems too.
I agree the comparison to Hitler is unhelpful, particularly because everyone thinks about extermination camps and not concentration camps, of which the earlier iterations are pretty similar to most detention facilities.
I was reading that they're usually placed with family too, so it's unclear to me why more resources aren't put into that component - apparently they only just started subsiding transport to take the kids to their placements too?
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Well, unless there's an some kind of viral outbreak, but what are the chances of that happening?
The facility in question is only being used because all the facilities have been reduced to half capacity to reduce risk of COVID outbreaks. It would seem we can’t really discuss this on this site without being extremely disingenuous about it.
Immigrant kids, like Anne Frank, died of disease from institutional neglect.
Yep this is for sure the same thing as the Holocaust, it’s not like the whole reason this facility is in use is because all the facilities have been reduced to half capacity to reduce the risk of disease outbreaks, it’s not like these children are being processed into our society after showing up alone at the border, which is the exact opposite thing of hunting people like Anne Frank down for removal from society as undesirables. It’s the same thing, we should keep making this comparison.