Me, wanting a full revolution
Also me, not wanting to take even the slightest inconvenience in my life
This was Hasan piker's rationale too if I remember, he will go on long rants about state-mandated veganism being good and then talk about how he won't do it in his personal life because no ethical consumption.
Did you see the series someone made compiling all of his arguments? His reaction to it is great, he watches and debates it for like an hour then comes away with no self reflection and the additional stance of "dog owners are slave owners" as some kind of defense for eating meat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiyXKRlkRGk
I just posted it as its own post, it's a great video for looking at what people who are using these arguments look like from the outside
https://hexbear.net/post/91821
Lol I watched a 2 hour podcast by Mark Rippetoe where he criticized Game Changers. His arguments were so bad it made me realize there really are no arguments against it.
So he's going to do it until the state forces him to stop? But also wants the state to force him to stop?
If a revolution happens i'd be willing to make sacrifices, I have absolutely zero reasons to make a single sacrifice for you losers who only treat me like shit here on a daily basis
Every meat eater here has perfect immunity to not go vegan cus of x and y. Creates a shield for people who could easily go vegan because for some people "they have to". So many posts that basically say it's genocide if I don't eat meat, I'll starve I if I don't eat meat, I have an illness that requires me to eat meat, etc. How can anyone argue against this in good faith? Can't they just admit they don't care about animals more than they like meat? Why do they have to set up flaming hoops we have all seen and jumped through before? Tbf I'm sure these people exist, but they're seemingly everybody and everywhere. Cows can't post asking people to stop killing them only we can. Yet meat eaters on this site act as if your killing them 🥲.
I'd like to bring up something I've said before about Food Trauma and how it can be more difficult than you might expect for a lot of people
I’ve also seen mentioned before about things like “food trauma” wherein people being forced to eat things against their will as a child can often make it difficult for them as an adult. I have an aunt who won’t eat cake or donuts or other “celebration” foods not because she doesn’t like the taste but because she was forced into eating them to “be polite” at other parties by the same father who beat her. It’s a psychological blockage that while it might be possible to get over, is really hard and clearly makes her feel a lot of pain to tackle. And when you look at how parents often handle vegetables when it comes to children, you can probably see how this thing pops up in many adults later on. Veggies are treated as a punishment, not normal food, and you get screamed and spanked if you don’t eat them. Especially for people with other mental issues like those autistic kids (obviously not all autistic people but the ones who are like this) who can only be gotten to eat the most simple foods such as chicken nuggets or mac and cheese.
That’s not to say that we should just shrug and give up on making the world vegan, but rather that we do need to approach it with a caring and understanding attitude as to why it can be so hard for people.
Whilst there are plenty of bullshit excuses people to tend to give for this, it's not as if there isn't some level of reasoning behind people's choices. Many people nowadays don't cook their own foods, they were never taught how and they're frightened to try, so they just buy frozen meals at Walmart and microwave everything, maybe once in a while there's something they might throw into the oven as well but it's very simple instructions of "Set to 350, take off wrapping, cook for 20 minutes, eat" levels of complexity.
Or maybe they just struggle to eat new foods to begin with. I've known a few autistic people who don't try new things, whether they be vegetables or meat products or fruit or whatever. They basically have the same meals planned out every week and that's it. Maybe they can switch up the orders or whatever but for the most part it's within the same group of like 20-30 meals and that's it.
That's not to say it's impossible to get these people switched over. Grocery stores need to provide better access to fresh vegetables, we need education for cooking not just on how, but also helping people get past that initial hurdle, and we need an accepting attitude towards those who have had traumatic experiences being beaten and hit around this, and for the neurallydiverse who struggle with "just swapping over" and slowly introducing new more sustainable and healthy foods into their diets.
Honestly I would love to see some sort of multifaceted approach that covers all of these issues at once.
Like put up posters for free cooking classes at soup kitchens, doctors offices and other support agencies and emphasize that there will be a number of different recipes tried. Give out bundles of food as a reward, if you come to our cooking class and say, try out a recipe involving spinach, then we'll give you some of the ingredients to make a meal or two on your own if you want them. Make sure to diversify what is taught. Maybe you don't like spinach no matter how it's used, but this brocolli is delicious to you and you want to learn how to mix it in with your pastas.
And slowly move people into the vegan lifestyle. Don't be afraid or against answering questions that involve incorporating vegetables into meat filled meals. A recipe that is 1 pound beef and the rest is veggies and pasta is still bad, but it's better than 2 pounds of beef and if it gets people to try out foods they wouldn't have normally and slowly move into incorporating them/eating them on their own it's a net positive at the end. That doesn't mean to teach them meat recipes at the classes, but if someone does have a question just answer.
Since this thread was basically posted about me, I just want to say that this comment basically describes me perfectly:
- autistic
- food trauma due to being forced to eat vegetables as a kid (I basically don't eat any vegetables at all, and I especially hate onions)
- only eat a very limited selection of meals (into which dairy in particular factors very heavily)
- don't know how to cook
Might I ever go vegan? Perhaps, with IRL support, but that isn't my current situation, so it's not going to happen right now.
Also, I realize I've walked into a minefield here, but I would really not like to get into an argument about this again. If this comment is considered inappropriate for this comm then the mods can go ahead and delete it, but please don't just dogpile on me again.
As far as I'm concerned you have a good excuse, but there are definitely people who could more easily make the change who refuse to even consider it and use some kind of 'solidarity' with people who have a harder time going vegan as an excuse.
I'm autistic with crohn's disease and food allergies and i swapped overnight. My wife is disabled with food allergies and grain intolerant, she swapped overnight as well. We had no issues with health or anything else going vegan over the past few years. The hardest part was having to do a bit of research about foods and alternatives which is really just a one-time thing.
My autistic boomer mom is 60 and switching slowly, but she's still switching. I know it can be hard to retrain your brain but idk, if my autistic boomer 60 yr old mom who lives in a rural area and only shops at walmart can do it, i've got to assume most people could give it an honest try if they really wanted.
It's frustrating because veganism being difficult is one of the reasons people say they "can't" make the switch. But literally every person i've talked to who has gone vegan, even one with a restricted diet, is like "yeah actually it was a lot easier than i thought". Honestly for me, the only real hard part of being vegan is people being rude to you.
It was kind of shocking how easy it was to just switch to meat substitutes. I don’t feel like I’ve lost anything. Dairy is a little bit harder, but I’ve also been pleasantly surprised by how versatile soy is. There’s lots of resources online and so many recipes. People seem to think a vegan diet is limiting, but I’ve been trying so much more new stuff now, and it’s almost all been great. I can’t recommend it enough from a selfish standpoint.
dairy products is my main thing. I found a good yogurt substitute, but it's only at one grocery store that is really far away, so I haven't been able to get it in a while.
the cheese.... well I'm still working on finding a decent substitute. they all suck as far as i can tell so far...
I’ve been liking the Tofutti brand for cream cheese and sour cream. It gets the texture right and if you combine it with other things, the slightly off flavor doesn’t come through. But regular cheese? That’s a puzzler. I got some shredded “mozzarella” made with potato starch. It at least sort of melted, so that’s progress. But really, I just try to avoid cheese wherever possible.
yeah I've basically been avoiding cheese... my friend said that they make some almond feta? sounds interesting so i'm willing to try it.
vegan 'ricotta' is easy to make and is pretty tasty, id recommend looking into that as well. but honestly, as yummy as cheese can be we also kinda dump it on all our food, and the way i gave it up was asking myself "does this dish need cheese to taste good? "
It’s crazy to me how often I didn’t even taste the cheese. Like when there was an option to add cheese to a sandwich or a rice bowl, I wouldn’t even be aware of it. Easy to cut it out.
Pizza has been a little harder to adapt, though I’ve had some good no-cheese pizzas.
pizza is one of those times I bust out the almond ricotta (flatbread with that and some lemon and zucchini and tomato, for example, is incredibly good) but i don't have a "real pizza" recipe that's vegan friendly
"does this dish need cheese to taste good? "
my quesadilla game suffers.
get yourself a yoghurt machine thingy (basically an insulated container you put hot water and your soy milk pot in), you can make more soy yoghurt with soy milk and some leftover soy yoghurt
My town got flooded with a lot of vegan cheeses that are actually good over the last couple years. That was one of my harder things to drop as well.
I think going vegetarian is simple. vegan can be a little trickier depending on what alternatives you have.
as a lazy person, i have just become a soup and salad person for the most part, which is not the greatest...
nuh uh my grandpa's neigbours' sister's cat can't be vegan because her nephew (who'd like to be a doctor) says he'd die. Also the nephew is jewish so you saying I should be vegan is doing an antisemitism
Same, switched to oat milk, stopped buying meat, eggs.
Any recipe I make that needs those things can usually be subbed with canola oil, plant milk, baking powder, and there's so much alternative meat if I ever do want that.
But I rarely do because I just know how to cook normally.
Yet black people are more likely to be vegan, 8% of black Americans are vegetarians/vegans - opposed to the 3% of the rest of the population. Ironically I went vegan in the worst period of my life when I was jobless and almost moneyless - while doing groceries I figured out that I could replace meat and some dairy products with food that costs less and is arguably healthier and that doesn't expire in two days in the fridge. What a lot of people fail to realize is that vegan food is not just fancy exotic expensive avocados and seitan and Brazil nuts. All the vegetables, legumes and cereals people already eat every day are the pillars of a plant-based diet, and meat in comparision is fucking expensive. Seriously do you even do groceries? This stupid idea that veganism is costly is just white people bs and I hate how it often comes with the tokenizations of the black community suffering worst material conditions
All of these "go vegan" posts have an implicit "if you have money and means to do so" at their end.
Often explicit, tbh, but it's still not good enough for some reason.
Try oat milk, I use the barista variant which is thicker and made from oat syrup which not only froths up real nice, it also tastes like drinking double cream without the calories. An excellent replacement for milk in your cereal, tea and coffee or whatever. I can't even stand the taste of normal milk anymore. Plus oat has the lowest carbon impact and water usage of any of the crops
seconding oat milk, and honestly it awakens flavors in your coffee, even if you're not a vegan or haven't fully gotten rid of dairy it should still be your go-to for coffee or tea, so delicious!
Ooh never heard of this, any good way you can make this barista variant at home? I make oat milk sometimes but it's usually not terribly thick.
inb4
There's no ethical consumption under capitalism, SO CONSUME TO YOUR HEART'S CONTENT
