Glenn never learned the lesson of posting that you don't actually have to have a take on everything. Sometimes you can just shut the fuck up and sit there thinking your dogshit thoughts.
It's just such a dumb thing to argue over.
"What if this mass murderer wasn't ACTUALLY anti-Asian? What if he was just a mega-incel who coincidentally targeted massage parlors?"
Alright, Glenn. So what? Is this the hill you want to die on? Selectively killing a bunch of Asian women isn't anti-Asian because the killer was too horny?
gonna go out on a limb and say that there's a subtle whiff of "the blacks are doing the ones doing the hate crimes against asians" here
as a black person, I definitely feel the pain over what happened to Latasha and over the horrible relations between the black and asian community but this does not mean that those poor women in atlanta deserved to be murdered, or that asians as a whole have chosen a side due to the horrible actions of one asian person a few years ago.
i also definitely identify with the crappy experience of watching the way that some asians have conflated black issues with asian issues / have tried to make their support for our issues conditional on us supporting them vs them supporting us because its the right thing to do period.
we definitely have some healing to do, but saying all asians choose a side, and that that is somehow a justification for the horrible racist and misgonystic murder that happened is wrong and racist
yes there's a lot of tension between the two communities that definitely shouldnt be swept away. I find it frustrating when people usually wave away the tensions between blacks and asians as an op, or as something being solely perpetuated by white people. Black and asian people are taking active part in these community beefs.
But looking unflinchingly at the tension between the communities doesnt mean being racist. You can be critical about how historically asian identity has been weaponized by whites against blacks / is sometimes weaponized by asians themselves against blacks, without making blanket statements about all asian behavior or intentions. (which I think you get now since you admitted it was racist)
And beyond that, even if asians were all bad, what happened in ATL is still wrong and still racism.
In terms of the conversation around this acknowledging that these women were sex workers, I've actually found that to be a huge part of the discourse i've seen on this (although I understand that is only ancedotal. I was actually just telling a friend that there seems to be an extreme effort to intersectionalize why the victims were targeted, to include their class, gender, occupation and race that seems different than how black victims are usually discussed ---with their blackness being a reason to be targeted first, with their other identities coming second).
I imagine that the sex worker aspect of this will be an even huger part of the discussion now that the murderer has said he targeted these women because of their sex work instead of their race (spoiler alert that dude is lying, but itll still have an effect on the convo)
But regardless of how this is being talked about, its pretty clear that all of these women's identities (asian, sex worker, working class, the fact that they are women) are relevant to what happened to them
Lmao what the fuck, such wrecker vibes from you. Or you're just a piece of shit, who knows!
they shot at black people in the LA riots, for all intents and purposes Asians have chosen what side they are on and they chose poorly.
not just a shit take but pretty racist too, wtf is this garbage?
It's also incorrect, the only people the chud rooftop Koreans killed was another rooftop Korean. Complete self own by the chuds there
Uhh yeah why don't you expand on that, motherfucker? What does that have to do with your remark about how Asians chose poorly---with the context being a discussion about a hate crime/mass shooting of Asian women?
I’m just gonna say the Asian community shot Latasha Harlins
One particularly racist Korean business tyrant shot Latasha Harlins.
they shot at black people in the LA riots
Largely a myth perpetuated by racist-ass white supremacists, who want to justify the police brutality that kicked off the LA Riots to begin with. No one was killed by "Roof Koreans". And, in the moment, a great deal of the outrage among Korean residents was aimed at the LAPD which had its own long sordid history of abusing and neglecting Koreatown residents.
for all intents and purposes Asians have chosen what side they are on
Jesus fucking Christ, this is a monstrously bad take.
Even after you get off events thirty years in the rear-view mirror and specific to a single community of migrants in a single city, it implies some homogenous attitude among "Asians" that's laughably false. Some of the worst bigotries in Asian communities are between different Asian communities (mainlander Chinese versus Taiwanese/HKers, Koreans versus Japanese, Japanese versus Chinese, Japanese versus Vietnamese, Basically Everyone against Indonesians and Malaysians).
The rise in anti-Asian violence correlates with the rise of Sinophobic conspiracy theories.
These conspiracies are much more socially acceptable than white supremacy. They are pushed by everyone from neo-Nazis to "progressive" politicians of color.
This guy may very well be a white supremacist. But the root of the problem is that Americans are being conditioned for war with China.
I keep having this argument with friends, they absolutely do not see the correlation between the rise in anti-China sentiment and the rise in anti-Asian violence.
Until the mid aughts or so liberals portrayed the Chinese as trapped in poverty under communism, and if only liberalism and free markets could swoop in and beat up the mean CCP they would be saved. The narrative shift began around when Chinese GDP per capita began increasing faster than the United States .
All of the sudden liberals stopped separating the CCP from the Chinese people, and all sorts of nasty stereotypes of all Chinese being thieves, baby killers, and brainwashers began.
Conservatives and liberals are now united in denigrating the Chinese people, because they both loathe that the Chinese are creating wealth faster than liberal democracies with free markets.
All of the sudden liberals stopped separating the CCP from the Chinese people, and all sorts of nasty stereotypes of all Chinese being thieves, baby killers, and brainwashers began.
These nasty stereotypes were always there; they just got more attention and airtime starting around the time you identify. It's the whole "emphasis is the atomic unit of propaganda" bit.
spoiler
I am very smart and developed this idea all on my own, with no input from Hexbear's official podcast.
You are absolutely correct. I meant to imply that liberals only picked up those stereotypes to use in their narratives recently; whereas before that they had usually treated the Chinese people as sympathetic victims.
It was mostly the conservatives who wanted to battle the "Chinese menace". The liberals really thought they could export their shit political system to China by saying nice things about them.
“emphasis is the atomic unit of propaganda”
Oh, I like that. Very snappy
It's from Citations Needed, a podcast with all sorts of excellent leftist media analysis. Highly recommend.
Yeah...I feel like I'm going insane, with all of the "Why are hate crimes against Asians going up?" articles that are popping up from news outlets over the past few weeks. Does nobody in this shithole country remember this same 'wacky coincidence' happening post 9/11, with Muslims being the target?
Not just Muslims, the Internet is awash in stories of Sikhs and Indians being targeted as well during (and after) those times.
A libertarian downplaying racial motives alongside the police? Say it ain't so
"listen kid, you're in hot soup rn, so you better say you did it for nofap otherwise you're getting life for sure. we're just trying to help you out here."
I did not have enough of an impression of Glenn Greenwald to form an opinion of him.
I now have enough of an impression of Glenn Greenwald to form an opinion of him.
"If Glenn Greenwald is defending your actions, you might be a white supremacist."
Has anyone provided an iota of evidnece
I got your iota right here you fuckin nerd
I know we're in the dunk tank and it's old chapo tradition to interpret everything posted here in the worst faith possible, but maybe Glenn Greenwald, an investigative journalist, wants to say that it's extremely irresponsible to play the alt-right game of screaming the name of the opposing group the second a mass shooting occurs just so we control the narrative for a moment.
FFS the top post was an obviously fake FB post by the guy (luckily deleted now). Yes, he killed asian women. That's a suspicion. But not proof.
The guy went around targeting Asian women specifically. He didn't only kill asian women he targeted them. Going to two separate massage parlors,with some distance between them,to do the shootings. It's not screaming the name of the opposing group to say that this guy has some racist and sexist motives behind these murders.
Is the mere act of only targeting Asian-descent women at massage parlors not evidence of racism? Yeah he didn't write a manifesto (that we know of) before doing these murders, but damn I feel like this is an awfully high level epistemological standards.
I've read (and I am taking with a grain of salt) that he was seen at those places before/has visited as a patron and it's frankly just as likely this is more specific to targeting sex workers/women than a straight up racism thing. Of course, it can also be a combination of these factors, or we can step back and discuss the myriad of factors why asian women were the majority of workers there, etc. I'm not trying to discount the element race plays into this, at all, but it has also been odd seeing people online parading around a single, likely faked, screenshot as proof not only of this asshole's intent, but also as like the "poster child" for how the media's rhetoric is inspiring violence. I think it's reasonably fair to assume that race was a factor, but was this necessarily motivated by covid-19 coverage, as people claim? I don't know, personally
Edit, just dropping some links as for why doubt the screenshot's authenticity
Fair point, I still don't think DivineChaos was right in dismissing the racial aspect of these murders as baseless suspicions.
Except i didn't mean to dismiss what you said as baseless at all. The fact that mostly Asians died in the attack is an important factor, but just that won't make a hate crime charge stand. And whatever the guy's motivation was, seems like he's playing on that,
There's obviously a rise of sinophobic violence in this country and I don't doubt for a second that racism and sexism are to blame here. That said, there's equal evidence in what you just said that this guy hated massage parlors.
He doesn't hate the women and workers at the parlor, just the idea of the parlor itself.
I don't think that's a very good line of reasoning. By that logic there's also evidence that the guy merely hates shops that are open late, because both of these places where open late.
That's not exactly what I'm saying. Just that if you can make a connection between him targeting women or Asians, you can make a connection with him targeting massage parlors. It's not like he went and shot up a Chinese food restaurant or something. He went after a specific type of business.
He’s not even saying “reserve judgement on this particular shooting” he’s saying that there’s no proof that the general uptick in anti-Asian violence has anything to do with white supremacy.
There's a point to be made that sinophobia and anti-asian racism is a broader and more mainstream ideology than explicit white supremacism is (with the obvious caveat that it's inherently linked to and derived from the American civic nationalist cult which is itself inextricably tied to white supremacist ideology, even if the way this manifests in a given person may favor one facet over another or even actively seek to hide some facets), but that's not the way to make that point.
with the obvious caveat that it’s inherently linked to and derived from the American civic nationalist cult which is itself inextricably tied to white supremacist ideology, even if the way this manifests in a given person may favor one facet over another or even actively seek to hide some facets
This seems like an over-intellectualizing the fact that the US is pushing war propaganda against China right now.
Yes, it can be connected back to white supremacy. But calling the current Sinophobia & anti-Asian racism "white supremacist" provides cover for Sinophobes who no one would consider white supremacists e.g. Ilhan Omar & AOC.
I agree with what you everything you said, though. Just wanted to include this criticism. It applies to everyone in this thread.
Yes, it can be connected back to white supremacy. But calling the current Sinophobia & anti-Asian racism “white supremacist” provides cover for Sinophobes who no one would consider white supremacists e.g. Ilhan Omar & AOC.
Yeah, that's basically my point, I just felt the need to acknowledge that yes, American nationalism is tied to white supremacist ideology even if someone touting it or an offshoot of it may profess anti-racist sentiment or even be in active conflict with the more overtly racist nationalists.
this forum's obsession with trying to dunk on glenn is just as sad/tiresome as glenn's obsession with trying to dunk on whomever (I honestly don't know or care to learn). who gives a shit, you worms.
Sorry Glenn, your foot-in-mouth disease has reach Stage 4. While there is no cure, you can mitigate the symptoms by logging off forever.
I mean, that still looks like a hate crime, just a diffrent one.
One that would be uncomfortable for the media to discuss so they didn't.
Glenn Greenwald should hire an assistant to follow him around and slap him in the lips if he says something.
Please empirically prove racism with math! Show your work now!
Further down the thread he links to Batya's thread that the guy was "eliminating a source of temptation." You could probably make an argument there that maybe this was anti-Sex worker violence or more misogynist rather than racist, but Glenn is not actually making that case. He always has to say things in such a way that he looks like he's just doing cover for whatever horrid bigotry is happening, and then just links to a bunch of people mocking him for it as proof that he's right somehow.
Real sick of this asshole.
Hell I'm amazed Glenn isn't making this case as the alleged killer has said pretty much that it was motivated by misogyny rather than racism. The amazing thing about Glenn's contrarianism is he doesn't bother choosing a framing where he could sneak his weird views in, even when a very simple one exists.
Edit: just so it's clear, I'm sure both racism and misogyny were a motivation, and I'm not meaning to suggest race wasn't a factor.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/alleged-killer-says-sex-addiction-not-racism-motivated-atlanta-shooting-spree-20210318-p57bqb.html
Sure, I'll even ship it down in a 1m thick metal shell fired out of a giant railgun so you get it in time.
Question: How big of a rail gun would you need to nail someone in the head, from the northeastern part of the US to Brazil?
He uncovered the judicial corruption that resulted in the conviction against Lula being overturned, meaning Lula will be able to run against Bolsanaro next year. That's basically it though, full of bad takes
Glenn is such an important investigative reporter with such an incoherent ideology. I don't think he even has an ideology, his political analysis seems to be a mix of personal grievances mixed in with a pinch of libertarianism and humanism.
When people substitute personal grievances for ideology we get really weird results like the white women PMC hate of Sanders over his finger wagging, or the entire conservative project.
These people need better grievances. When I had grievances and not ideology I just yearned for a Chinese Land Reform with French Revolution characteristics.
He’s done some good work as a journalist, but he got brainworms from being called a Russian op by StillWithHer wine moms on twitter and now he sucks. That and everyone but Fox News blacklisted him for the crime of doing real journalism, and the only reason Fox hasn’t is because they need a token “leftie” to come on Carlson and Glenn’s willing to do it so he doesn’t fade into total irrelevance.
Because he used billionaire silly con valley tech money to found a media outlet that jails whistleblowers
Please for the love of god Glenn needs to log off. He’s done some pretty good work for a journalist, but his politics are quite clearly influenced by “who annoys me the most on twitter”.
