If you're right and you aren't willing to actually communicate why, or worse, if you're right and you don't even understand why, you might as well be wrong.

If you're going to argue with people on the internet, and I know you are, either go full irony or actually take time to work out an argument that you know is going to be persuasive, none of this halvsies shit.

I was on the edge of becoming a leftist for like six months. That's literally how long it took for me to even be exposed to the idea that capitalism is bad for inherent and structural reasons, and not because of all the really obvious shit that liberals also disagree with but think can be reformed away.

  • Fordo [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Being a depressed leftist with little skill or experience in debates/arguments is hell. Do we have anything organized here or on the discord that helps train people to make better arguments?

    • Liberalism [he/him,they/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      If that's something you're legitimately really interested in then it would be nice, but also you aren't obligated to argue with people online. It's not really that helpful anyway.

      • MaoTheLawn [any, any]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Real life it helps though. I'm a bit of a debatelord Shapiro leftist and despite a lack of knowledge sometimes i've converted quite a few people through conversations and arguments in front of others.

      • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        It’s not really that helpful anyway.

        It's not always helpful, but it can be. We need at least tens of millions more people on our side to get anything big done, and even if the material conditions are right to push people towards our side, they still need someone to light the way.

        What's helpful is:

        • Getting a good leftist message out there where a lot of people will see it (or where you almost never see a leftist message)
        • Providing a good leftist rebuttal to chud talking points
        • Finding someone who appears to be genuinely curious and giving them some leftist content to consider
        • Identifying/challenging pro-capitalist propaganda
        • Engaging with fellow leftists to figure out your own beliefs and figure out the best way to communicate them

        What's not helpful is:

        • Getting into arguments no one will ever read
        • Posting weak shit that won't convince anyone
        • Losing sight of the fact that most people who use social media never engage with it; they just read
        • Spending too much time in friendly spaces and not enough time getting the message out where it's not already accepted
        • Wasting time on chuds who will endlessly debate you in bad faith and never come around

        Propaganda works, folks, and we're either doing it or standing by while it's done to us.

      • Fordo [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        More so for real life, since political discussion is so often unavoidable with friends or family members. I've got a brother-in-law whom I believe is genuinely well-meaning and is always receptive to what I have to say, has offered to watch any political videos I send him. Problem is he's in that centrist mindset that you've always gotta listen to conservatives/"both sides" or else you're a bad, close minded person. He's got a couple black friends — he sent one of them a video he found recently from a black conservative listing reasons why Trump isn't racist, and got mildly upset when they refused to watch the whole thing. Not to mention he's also worked in various levels of marketing for most of his adult life, and is friends with a guy who became a millionaire off of it, so the belief in capitalism might be strongly rooted. Still, I think he's got a chance.

        I'd just love to get it into his head that conservatives so often act and argue in bad faith, and that it's okay to disregard them sometimes at the very least.