Just dropping in to say. Please don't listen to that advice.
Majority of women will not make the first move, and if you sit around waiting for that to happen, you will be single for years at a time. Some women will, most will not.
It might be patriarchal conditioning, but it is the world we live in.
Feel free to make the first move. It's not a crime. Just be respectful to her and take the hint if she seems uninterested.
I get that. Everyone feels that to a certain extent. It's human.
But, in my experience, it does get better. Flirting never came naturally to me, but I learned how to do it with practice. Here's the advice that I would give to myself if I could write a letter to the teenage kissless virgin that I was a decade ago.
There's a few things you're juts gonna have to accept.
1- You have to accept that you will get rejected. This is okay. I've been rejected more times than I could even recall. That's okay. Especially if you are looking for LTR (as I typically do) you only need to get it right once, and then you can forget about it for as long as your relationship lasts. Missing 20 shots in a row doesn't matter if the 21st shot is a bull's eye. To paraphrase a certain Irish militant group "Today we were unlucky, but remember: we only have to be lucky once."
2 - You have to accept that you might create an awkward situation. This is okay. Causing an awkward/uncomfortable situation is not the end of the world. It's not desirable, but it happens sometimes. What you said up there in OP is stuff that I identify with a lot, because I often feel it also. As you said, a man basically has to make the first move, because (as I said) the majority of women will not make the first move in the majority of situations (actually, I've found that a handful of them also won't make the first, second, or third move, my current SO was like this).
Combine the fact that you have to make the first move with the fact that you can't know with complete certainty if a woman is interested before you make that move, and we wind up with the fact that you are very likely to hit on/flirt with/ask out a woman that is not interested in you. This may indeed be awkward and uncomfortable.
That's okay. Accidentally causing someone to feel awkward for a few minutes does not make you a sex pest. Just learn how to take a 'no' graciously.
Sometimes women may not give a direct 'no. Often they hint at it. They will indicate that they are not interested by, say, ghosting you, or if you are in person, they will lean away from you. They might say "yes" to a date and then ghost you later when you try to set it up over text. So learn how to take a 'no' graciously and also learn how to take the hint graciously. So, say, you try to flirt on the first date by putting your hand on her shoulder, and you find that she leans away from you, and doesn't reciprocate your touch. Take the hint. If you take the hint and back off after getting it, no harm, no foul. It doesn't make you a sex pest
1- You have to accept that you will get rejected. This is okay. I’ve been rejected more times than I could even recall. That’s okay. Especially if you are looking for LTR (as I typically do) you only need to get it right once, and then you can forget about it for as long as your relationship lasts. Missing 20 shots in a row doesn’t matter if the 21st shot is a bull’s eye. To paraphrase a certain Irish militant group “Today we were unlucky, but remember: we only have to be lucky once.”
I guess I worry about all those failures bringing me down :yes-honey-left:
2 - You have to accept that you might create an awkward situation. This is okay. Causing an awkward/uncomfortable situation is not the end of the world. It’s not desirable, but it happens sometimes. What you said up there in OP is stuff that I identify with a lot, because I often feel it also. As you said, a man basically has to make the first move, because (as I said) the majority of women will not make the first move in the majority of situations (actually, I’ve found that a handful of them also won’t make the first, second, or third move, my current SO was like this).
But what IS the first move?! Is it asking her to coffee, it it talking to her, what?
Combine the fact that you have to make the first move with the fact that you can’t know with complete certainty if a woman is interested before you make that move, and we wind up with the fact that you are very likely to hit on/flirt with/ask out a woman that is not interested in you. This may indeed be awkward and uncomfortable. That’s okay. Accidentally causing someone to feel awkward for a few minutes does not make you a sex pest. Just learn how to take a ‘no’ graciously.
No, I can take a no without complaining or being rude to who says it. It's how I start taking it as an indictment of who I am as a person that's bad...
So, say, you try to flirt on the first date by putting your hand on her shoulder, and you find that she leans away from you, and doesn’t reciprocate your touch. Take the hint.
Also, touching someone casually on the first date isn't bad? I'm a bit touch-averse, so this is all new to me.
I guess I worry about all those failures bringing me down
Well, it's never fun. I don't like it either. It doesn't feel like the end of the world to me tho like it used to. I don't like to be rejected, but I'm calloused to it now. It doesn't hurt me now nearly as much as it did when I was 17. I honestly think that getting a few rejections can work well as a form of exposure therapy. Having past successes help also, because it gives you the knowledge that "Ok well, [ex-gf1] and [ex-gf2] both dated me for months, so obviously I can get a gf, I just need to wade thru the rejections until I get a find a lady I click with."
But what IS the first move?! Is it asking her to coffee, it it talking to her, what?
This is really context depended imo. Some people meet on tinder/in a bar and directly go to the other's apt to bang the very same night without even going on a real date. If you meet someone thru work or class or whatev, this is prob not gonna happen like that.
IMO, for a first date, coffee is fine. Just say like "Hey, you free this weekend? let's go out on a date and have lunch/a coffee/a beer at [place]." I always use the word "date" because I think it's better to be direct and up front about what you want. I don't say 'let's hang out' or whatever when I actually want to bust a nut have a mutually respectful romantic encounter.
A coffee or a couple beers at a lowkey bar (someplace where the music isn't so loud you can't talk) is best imo. It doesn't need to be fancy. You're getting to know each other.
Also, touching someone casually on the first date isn’t bad? I’m a bit touch-averse, so this is all new to me.
Personally, I am not touch averse. I use touch to show affection. I like to receive touch. I'm a hugger. I hug my male, platonic buddies after a hang out and have no qualms about putting my arm around my best bros or even sharing one of these . I also like to touch the lady I'm dating. If your date is fine with it and you are also fine with it, why would it be bad? Some women like it, some do not. Generally you can tell by paying attention to those aforementioned hints. If its unclear, I see no problem with literally just straight up asking "hey, is this okay?" or whatever. You start with some small, subtle, casual touch, (brief touch on the wrist, hand or shoulder) if she responds positively (doesn't give the 'stop' hints), there's no problem with more touching, is there? And again, if its unclear (it usually is not to me, if I pay attention to the signs) , I can literally just ask directly.
Your first date goes well and you're walking from the cafe to the frozen yogurt place down the road for desert? I see no problem with putting my arm around her waist, as long as she's fine with it, where's the problem? This is 2021, people out here literally fucking someone who's name they don't even know.
edit:
No, I can take a no without complaining or being rude to who says it. It’s how I start taking it as an indictment of who I am as a person that’s bad…
again: accidentally causing someone to feel awkward for a few minutes does not make you a sex pest.
Well, it’s never fun. I don’t like it either. It doesn’t feel like the end of the world to me tho like it used to. I don’t like to be rejected, but I’m calloused to it now. It doesn’t hurt me now nearly as much as it did when I was 17. I honestly think that getting a few rejections can work well as a form of exposure therapy. Having past successes help also, because it gives you the knowledge that “Ok well, [ex-gf1] and [ex-gf2] both dated me for months, so obviously I can get a gf, I just need to wade thru the rejections until I get a find a lady I click with."
Well, no successes here yet. And I'm a bit past the 'end of the world' stage. So bring on the exposure therapy I say.
IMO, for a first date, coffee is fine. Just say like “Hey, you free this weekend? let’s go out on a date and have lunch/a coffee/a beer at [place].” I always use the word “date” because I think it’s better to be direct and up front about what you want. I don’t say ‘let’s hang out’ or whatever when I actually want to have a mutually respectful romantic encounter.
Well, that's the one I've using so far in college, so I'll keep using it I guess
Personally, I am not touch averse. I use touch to show affection. I like to receive touch. I’m a hugger. I hug my male, platonic buddies after a hang out and have no qualms about putting my arm around my best bros or even sharing one of these . I also like to touch the lady I’m dating. If your date is fine with it and you are also fine with it, why would it be bad? Some women like it, some do not. Generally you can tell by paying attention to those aforementioned hints. If its unclear, I see no problem with literally just straight up asking “hey, is this okay?” or whatever. You start with some small, subtle, casual touch, (brief touch on the wrist, hand or shoulder) if she responds positively (doesn’t give the ‘stop’ hints), there’s no problem with more touching, is there? And again, if its unclear (it usually is not to me, if I pay attention to the signs) , I can literally just ask directly.
Well, those signs are usually very unclear to me, so I'm glad asking isn't looked down upon, as I'll be doing that a lot.
Your first date goes well and you’re walking from the cafe to the frozen yogurt place down the road for desert? I see no problem with putting my arm around her waist, as long as she’s fine with it, where’s the problem? This is 2021, people out here literally fucking someone who’s name they don’t even know.
Forgive me for being... A novice, but I don't think I could never be bold enough to do the arm around the waist on a first date I'm sorry :crush:
And when I said taking rejection as an indictment of myself... I meant my self-worth or overall attractiveness.
But it is good to know I'm not being seen as a sex pest if I do get a "no"
I would recommend not listening to the others and listening to Bruce instead. Try to establish yourself first as a independent person with your own unique traits you are proud of even without the attraction of others to confirm it for you. This will breed confidence and others can basically smell confidence (or a lack thereof) and you will find yourself in more favorable situations. It seems like a lack of confidence is your biggest problem (as it is with most people) and contrary to popular belief you aren't going to be able to get that from other people, it comes from within and feeling comfortable being yourself.
Also, women can make "the first move" without straight up asking you out, but that's not the first move, that's just making mutual attraction official. You should learn a bit about body language and take notice of the kind of cues people give you when you are talking with them, if it looks good, just slowly turn up the heat with some light flirting and keep watching the body language. If you and another person are on the same page you will be able to tell without cold calling asking someone out. (This never made much sense to me, wouldn't you want to learn about the other person in a casual setting before you started dating them??)
Well, that's not happening anytime soon I don't think :sadness:
It probably is true for others.
But no matter the case, you're right, I shouldn't try to make the first move.
Just dropping in to say. Please don't listen to that advice.
Majority of women will not make the first move, and if you sit around waiting for that to happen, you will be single for years at a time. Some women will, most will not.
It might be patriarchal conditioning, but it is the world we live in.
Feel free to make the first move. It's not a crime. Just be respectful to her and take the hint if she seems uninterested.
Ugh, that's so stressful that I gotta do it. I fear being rejected too much. But you miss all the shots you don't take I guess...
I get that. Everyone feels that to a certain extent. It's human.
But, in my experience, it does get better. Flirting never came naturally to me, but I learned how to do it with practice. Here's the advice that I would give to myself if I could write a letter to the teenage kissless virgin that I was a decade ago.
There's a few things you're juts gonna have to accept.
1- You have to accept that you will get rejected. This is okay. I've been rejected more times than I could even recall. That's okay. Especially if you are looking for LTR (as I typically do) you only need to get it right once, and then you can forget about it for as long as your relationship lasts. Missing 20 shots in a row doesn't matter if the 21st shot is a bull's eye. To paraphrase a certain Irish militant group "Today we were unlucky, but remember: we only have to be lucky once."
2 - You have to accept that you might create an awkward situation. This is okay. Causing an awkward/uncomfortable situation is not the end of the world. It's not desirable, but it happens sometimes. What you said up there in OP is stuff that I identify with a lot, because I often feel it also. As you said, a man basically has to make the first move, because (as I said) the majority of women will not make the first move in the majority of situations (actually, I've found that a handful of them also won't make the first, second, or third move, my current SO was like this).
Combine the fact that you have to make the first move with the fact that you can't know with complete certainty if a woman is interested before you make that move, and we wind up with the fact that you are very likely to hit on/flirt with/ask out a woman that is not interested in you. This may indeed be awkward and uncomfortable.
That's okay. Accidentally causing someone to feel awkward for a few minutes does not make you a sex pest. Just learn how to take a 'no' graciously.
Sometimes women may not give a direct 'no. Often they hint at it. They will indicate that they are not interested by, say, ghosting you, or if you are in person, they will lean away from you. They might say "yes" to a date and then ghost you later when you try to set it up over text. So learn how to take a 'no' graciously and also learn how to take the hint graciously. So, say, you try to flirt on the first date by putting your hand on her shoulder, and you find that she leans away from you, and doesn't reciprocate your touch. Take the hint. If you take the hint and back off after getting it, no harm, no foul. It doesn't make you a sex pest
Feel like this can't be said enough
Then I oughtta remember it well :stalin-approval:
I guess I worry about all those failures bringing me down :yes-honey-left:
But what IS the first move?! Is it asking her to coffee, it it talking to her, what?
No, I can take a no without complaining or being rude to who says it. It's how I start taking it as an indictment of who I am as a person that's bad...
Also, touching someone casually on the first date isn't bad? I'm a bit touch-averse, so this is all new to me.
Well, it's never fun. I don't like it either. It doesn't feel like the end of the world to me tho like it used to. I don't like to be rejected, but I'm calloused to it now. It doesn't hurt me now nearly as much as it did when I was 17. I honestly think that getting a few rejections can work well as a form of exposure therapy. Having past successes help also, because it gives you the knowledge that "Ok well, [ex-gf1] and [ex-gf2] both dated me for months, so obviously I can get a gf, I just need to wade thru the rejections until I get a find a lady I click with."
This is really context depended imo. Some people meet on tinder/in a bar and directly go to the other's apt to bang the very same night without even going on a real date. If you meet someone thru work or class or whatev, this is prob not gonna happen like that.
IMO, for a first date, coffee is fine. Just say like "Hey, you free this weekend? let's go out on a date and have lunch/a coffee/a beer at [place]." I always use the word "date" because I think it's better to be direct and up front about what you want. I don't say 'let's hang out' or whatever when I actually want to
bust a nuthave a mutually respectful romantic encounter.A coffee or a couple beers at a lowkey bar (someplace where the music isn't so loud you can't talk) is best imo. It doesn't need to be fancy. You're getting to know each other.
Personally, I am not touch averse. I use touch to show affection. I like to receive touch. I'm a hugger. I hug my male, platonic buddies after a hang out and have no qualms about putting my arm around my best bros or even sharing one of these . I also like to touch the lady I'm dating. If your date is fine with it and you are also fine with it, why would it be bad? Some women like it, some do not. Generally you can tell by paying attention to those aforementioned hints. If its unclear, I see no problem with literally just straight up asking "hey, is this okay?" or whatever. You start with some small, subtle, casual touch, (brief touch on the wrist, hand or shoulder) if she responds positively (doesn't give the 'stop' hints), there's no problem with more touching, is there? And again, if its unclear (it usually is not to me, if I pay attention to the signs) , I can literally just ask directly.
Your first date goes well and you're walking from the cafe to the frozen yogurt place down the road for desert? I see no problem with putting my arm around her waist, as long as she's fine with it, where's the problem? This is 2021, people out here literally fucking someone who's name they don't even know.
edit:
again: accidentally causing someone to feel awkward for a few minutes does not make you a sex pest.
Well, no successes here yet. And I'm a bit past the 'end of the world' stage. So bring on the exposure therapy I say.
Well, that's the one I've using so far in college, so I'll keep using it I guess
Well, those signs are usually very unclear to me, so I'm glad asking isn't looked down upon, as I'll be doing that a lot.
Forgive me for being... A novice, but I don't think I could never be bold enough to do the arm around the waist on a first date I'm sorry :crush:
And when I said taking rejection as an indictment of myself... I meant my self-worth or overall attractiveness.
But it is good to know I'm not being seen as a sex pest if I do get a "no"
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you never know really. some girl could let you know any day. just try to relax.
Guess I'll have to keep waiting then. Least the onus isn't on me?
Don't listen to them lmao
This might not be the site to ask for relationship advice. There's a high number of literal teenagers here, many of whom are weird shut ins.
Yeah Bruce is giving horrible advice
Idk, I've gotten good advice here before on the megathreads at least
I would recommend not listening to the others and listening to Bruce instead. Try to establish yourself first as a independent person with your own unique traits you are proud of even without the attraction of others to confirm it for you. This will breed confidence and others can basically smell confidence (or a lack thereof) and you will find yourself in more favorable situations. It seems like a lack of confidence is your biggest problem (as it is with most people) and contrary to popular belief you aren't going to be able to get that from other people, it comes from within and feeling comfortable being yourself.
Also, women can make "the first move" without straight up asking you out, but that's not the first move, that's just making mutual attraction official. You should learn a bit about body language and take notice of the kind of cues people give you when you are talking with them, if it looks good, just slowly turn up the heat with some light flirting and keep watching the body language. If you and another person are on the same page you will be able to tell without cold calling asking someone out. (This never made much sense to me, wouldn't you want to learn about the other person in a casual setting before you started dating them??)
nor the regret