Of course the :reddit-logo: comments were too shitty to dig through.
https://chinadigitaltimes.net/chinese/671510.html seems to be the main source. The comments are coming from leaked materials of a CPC-led conference at Beijing International Game Innovation Conference back in September.
http://www.cgigc.com.cn/info/22297.html There's more info on the guidelines on their official website. For whatever reason it's currently not loading (possibly due to increased traffic?), but I'll try uploading the .pdf files of the guidelines to somewhere if anyone knows a good place.
https://tweet.lambda.dance/pengulican/status/1443455893664718855?s=19 The guidelines are translated to English here.
All in all, this really doesn't look good, and doesn't seem to apply to only games - apparently various gay shows and books are affected too. Obviously there are some decent guidelines in there like the banning of imperial japan worship, regulation of gacha/pay to win exploitative 'games', etc. but it shouldn't be at the expense of LGBTQ+ comrades :sicko-no:
Not to make light of the situation but
games can allow the player to do bad things but ONLY IF the player later "repents" for their actions
"Press R to Repent" lmaoooo
:michael-laugh: clearly China and America have more in common than previously thought
Thanks for letting me know. If this was the only source, I would have breathed a sigh of relief at it just being :cia: propaganda, but unfortunately state-owned media Sixth Tone has corroborated this information over several of their articles, so it does seem to be true, at least the parts regarding the regulations against homosexuality, feminine men, and GNC AMABs.
- https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1008389/chinas-ongoing-struggle-against-sissy-young-men
- https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1008587/chinas-gaming-body-to-bar-local-games-on-foreign-platforms
From the last article:
Apart from limiting access to foreign games, the agreement also emphasized the responsibility of gaming companies to monitor users via real-name registration and facial recognition to deter minors from playing. The document also expressed its commitment to combating so-called sissy men and danmei :deeper-sadness:
wasn't the effeminate guys thing specifically in the context of K-pop "stan culture" and basically a single phrase in an official report that Western media decided to interpret in the worst light possible?
No
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202109/03/WS61319644a310efa1bd66d27f.html
Ironic since most Western Chuds would have no issue with this if it wasn’t China.
True, altough sadly we also have people on here arguing that policing gender expression is good actually because it's China and 'it's actually about K-pop' anyway :cringe:
It's the CPC, by the way, not the CCP. And yes, I think that does factor in. Another major factor is obviously how much news about China is outright falsehood or misrepresentation, which rightfully makes people hesitant to believe things like this.
For what it's worth, I agree the social conservative current in the party exists and is cringe, and I think most here do as well. People just get big-time lost in specifics, as usual.
lol, the "CCP" thing is so common that I slip up on it sometimes as well. Not judging you btw, I just make a point of mentioning it whenever it comes up. Hope you're having a good time late-night posting.
I don't have the energy to go drill down into this shit again, but this sounds like somebody intentionally mixed up the western outrage on China's new underage online video game restrictions with the other recent policy document about idol culture that had a single mention of a semi-questionable translation of something close to "sissy"
for precarious Americans fearmongering about conditions in China is an attractive way to feel better about your continuing decline
In the context of Asia: I think some people associate lgbt (and sometimes feminist) issues with "western liberal activism/chauvinism" or "value imposition". Ironic, since the west was notably more hostile towards lgbt people than the rest and imposed their homophobic shit during colonialism.
e.g. IIRC Shanghai pride was cancelled in the past when the organizers reached out to the US consulate. It's tied to fear of western lib infiltration/co-opting of movements.
Of course, I'm not saying this is a good thing. Just giving a possibile reason for this.
western outrage on China’s new underage online video game restrictions
I actually have only heard support for that even on the bbc largely from parents
Cishet men suck and Chinese cishet men are often no different.
I'm banning genders but also banning agender people so everyone has to exist in a void
I've heard that the spirit of the law really isn't anti queer and the term can be translated as queer or I believe something along the lines or men that use good looks to get ahead.
As I've said, the party is being called out for using a term domestically for using an ambiguous term that could be misinpreted to attack effiminate men. Hopefully this is true and they change it.
Yeah there's a bunch of posts about it.
It's basically a clap back from old social conservatives in the government who think kpop are corrupting the youth.
I don't think it has anything to do with video games, that was a separate thing wherein they're limiting the time kids can play online games from certain companies.
All of this has been fucking over blown.
Yes the kpop thing is in bad taste, no it's not making it illegal to be a femboy
Also both these laws are restrictions placed on media companies and don't have any kind of punishment for citizens involved.
https://chinadigitaltimes.net/chinese/671510.html is a link to a Chinese-language article about it. Hearing from others (and looking at google translate), several things pop out.
The presenter specifically calls out games like Onmyoji, Arknights, Azur Lane, and Genshin Impact for differing reasons, saying that new games featuring elements in those games might be considered to be going over the line.
I think the presenter called out post-apocalytic scenarios as a problem (and that fantasy scenarios won't get you away from red lines either).
Azur Lane was called out specifically because of the anthropomorphization of IJN Ships - specifically, 'Kaga is my waifu' as a thing may be a problem going forward. This is especially hilarious as Azur Lane is much less problematic than Kantai Collection, the OTHER ship girl game which is made in Japan, because that game is much more explicitly an IJN lost-causer right-wing ideology game, whereas Azur Lane is just very very horny.
BL was explicitly prohibited, and BL-adjacent stuff was also considered a problem. Furthermore, characters that couldn't be immediately ID'd as male or female by the reviewers would also be a problem -- specifically calling out Venti from Genshin Impact. I think the presenter also called out Xianxia (the very popular genre with works like The Untamed/ Mo Dao Zu Shi) because I see 'cultivation,' which represents a technique/concept for powering up in Xianxia stories, getting called out as bad.
Other stuff - don't glorify Japanese history or culture, don't be 'inaccurate' with depictions of Chinese historical and mythical figures. This seems to be what caused a big stir with Fate/Grand Order in China, because FGO often takes significant creative license (though usually with some reason) with many of its characters. Most of the characters representing Chinese figures have had their images totally removed in game menus in the Chinese version of the game, and their names have also been excised completely, with them being referred to only by their 'class' and ID, which leads to some 'interesting 'problems in the story (which features an arc taking place in an alternate universe China.
Overall there's some maybe good stuff about restricting gacha (though as a gacha player myself I have mixed feelings), but a lot of significantly bad socially conservative stuff here. If this presentation is accurate as to what China will allow in games, we should expect significant restrictions in what is allowed to be depicted in games (and media in general), because many companies are trying to release games in China (and Chinese games are getting much better in quality and coming overseas). Don't know how else to say it, but it's pretty damn bad if you're into gaming and any kind of social justice.
China did a cringe, here's where the "critical" part of critical support comes in
In June, state broadcaster China Central Television edited an actor’s gown to cover up parts of her cleavage.
that just sounds like something any network might do
It basically came down to organic fems being fine but gmo being seen as problematic.
It is a mix of old school reaction wanting people to be strong for the upcoming climate apocalypse and war with amercia. And also an attempt to keep koren style plastic surgury fasion culture from being a thing there. Both essentially valid goals if not presented well in context.
Here's a counterpoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sDi3vfSzRo
I haven't watched the whole thing, so I don't know how accurate it is, please don't yell at me if it's all wrong.
ah thanks for the link. was wondering why i hadnt seen him on anticonc in a while, did they split or what?
I think he just left. Found his channel because Anticonquista linked to it, so I'm guessing there's no drama there.
Watch this video, it's a good summary. An important thing emphasized in the video is that the slur term translated as "sissy men" did not appear in the actual text of the regulation. That language came from an editorial in favor of the regulation from a Chinese state sponsored news outlet, and it was reported as the official language of the policy in America. However, other state sponsored media outlets were highly critical of that language and the policy itself. So the thing to remember here is that China and the CPC are not a monolith, they have internal conflicts just like anywhere else.
Another thing to remember is that China is actually a lot better on LGBTQ issues than most Americans think. One of their most popular celebrities (Jin Xing, almost like their version of Oprah) has been openly transgender for decades. Their laws and large parts of their culture are still very reactionary on the subject, and we don't have to pretend that's good or necessary. But remember that almost all victories for LGBTQ people here in the states came through long and difficult internal struggle, and it's likely the same will be true in China, so we shouldn't hold them to a different standard. I'm not entirely sure how people in America can help move that struggle forward. We should definitely be critical of decisions like this, but remember that criticizing China on LGBTQ rights without fighting for them here is chauvinistic and only serves imperialism; it's entirely possible that the US could use LGBTQ rights as an excuse for sanctions in the future while still having things like conversion camps be completely legal right here.
Additionally, as someone else in this thread pointed out, some people have linked the restrictions on gay and GNC people to increased militarism within China and a desire to appear strong. That would almost certainly be reduced if tensions with the US relaxed. So combatting anti-China sentiment here might help LGBTQ people in China.
Tl;dr: I went on a ramble here, but I think some basic things you can do to fight for LGBTQ rights in China is to fight for them here while also avoiding spreading an imperialist mentality. I'm not sure if there's anything more direct you can do as an American.
I’m not entirely sure how people in America can help move that struggle forward.
It's better for the LGBT rights struggle in China not to be associated with American interference, and Americans pushing their values onto China. The best thing to do is nothing.
A good way to think about this is to flip the question around: "What can China do to help advance the LGBTQ cause in America?"
I literally cannot think of a single thing that China could do to help end American conversion camps, hate crimes, job discrimination, educational suppression, etc. So why should we expect to be able to do anything for them?
Right, but you also need to consider that there's a history of Western countries using their power to attempt to impose cultural and political hegemony on China, and not the other way around. It wouldn't be helpful to have Chinese people associating gay rights with western Imperialism.
This is also why I get so mad at people who invoke women's rights as a reason that the US should have stayed in Afghanistan. For one, women's rights were never any part of the real reason for the occupation, and also women's liberation there has probably been set back decades because many Afghanis likely see women's advancement as synonymous with colonial rule!
Additionally, as someone else in this thread pointed out, some people have linked the restrictions on gay and GNC people to increased militarism within China and a desire to appear strong. That would almost certainly be reduced if tensions with the US relaxed. So combatting anti-China sentiment here might help LGBTQ people in China.
Never struck my mind but it makes a lot of sense. It will be hard to convince a lib of this because they consider China the aggressor for some reason.
they limited the amount of time that underage people are allowed to play online games, iirc they're trying to reduce how many kids get addicted to things like gacha games
My understanding is that interpretations that it's about LGBTQ+ people are Western projections onto what discriminating against K-pop beauty standards means in China. The trend getting targeted is about cishet-presenting male entertainers adopting a particular style in order to appeal to a female audience.
