From one of the comments;
"Weird how we immediately had a plague after this comment was made."
Isn't Obama Christian? Cause a prophet making choices is like, the main part of that religion.
Muslims are the ones who believe Jesus was a prophet, not Christians
wait
Back then we didn't have adults in the room to ask what effects :jesus-cleanse: had on the dow and gdp.
In the sense He was a speaker of truth, He was a prophet. However, He is not counted in the list of prophets by us. It's like how you'd call someone the writer of a paper, but probably wouldn't call them a writer if it wasn't their profession or hobby.
All the Catholic resources I’m finding agree that he was a prophet. It’s in the Catechism.
https://www.loyolapress.com/catholic-resources/scripture-and-tradition/jesus-and-the-new-testament/who-do-you-say-that-i-am-names-for-jesus/jesus-prophet-priest-and-king/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threefold_office
783 Jesus Christ is the one whom the Father anointed with the Holy Spirit and established as priest, prophet, and king. The whole People of God participates in these three offices of Christ and bears the responsibilities for mission and service that flow from them.
Thanks for handling that. I was raised an atheist but like read the Bible regarldess
I'm not christian, but I'm familiar with the teaching, and I think I can argue against that.
However the messiah was described before birth, I don't think Jesus fits the description of a prophet. Either in the literal modern sense, or in the way each of them were described in the new testament.
As far as I'm aware, none of Jesus's miracles tell the future. They heal the sick and raise the dead, etc., but they don't make predictions. I believe there are cases where he says what he and/or God are about to do, but that's not really a prophecy.
Generally, the way 'the prophets' are described in the stories of Jesus is as a group of elite conservative elders making pronouncements. Jesus's job is to tell them how they are misinterpreting the word of God, and are misleading people.If you have a strong opinion on another interpretation, I would be happy to hear it, but I probably will just defer to you and won't debate about it.
Edit to clarify what I'm saying here:
In the sense of 'prophet' as fortune teller: Jesus textually said things that later happened as he described. But following the teachings of Jesus is not intended to give christians insight into what will happen in the future.
In the sense of 'prophet' as having a connection to God, that would certainly describe Jesus, but from the way prophet is often used in the new testament to describe people falsely claiming to have that connection, I think many people would not use that description in that context.Being a prophet in Judaism and Christianity isn’t about telling the future, it’s about having a message from God.
Rabbi Lord Sacks (often rather CHUD adjacent, but occasionally eloquent) said that the difference between a prophecy and a prediction is that if successful, a prophecy doesn’t come true. That is, the purpose of a prophecy is to provide a threatening condition from God to change human behavior.
Yes, I agree with you. I was just emphasizing that he “fits the description of a prophet” in the original sense of the term as well as in the modern definition.
And also, I don't think this has anything to do with the obama quote that started this, but I wanted to defend that "Jesus wasn't a prophet" is a consistent view in christianity.
This is so insane. First just the metaphor that he decides to invent. In the Bible, ignoring the prophets usually means doom for everyone, especially the king.
But also - he is saying that Bernie is "a moral voice giving us guidance", but he is also completely ignoring that moral voice and working against him behind the scenes, making himself the anti-moral guy by his own definition. And then saying that kings just have to be immoral because that is their job somehow, kings can't just choose to be moral because... why? And what choice is Bernie here expected to make here, except "you get nothing, bye"?
Eh, I don't know how his justification would work, but I have no trouble accepting that all of that is pretty much what obama sincerely believes.
Can’t he just say what he wants to say? What is with all this fake eloquence
I think it makes him feel like he is some kind of enlightened expert, and to try to push an explanation that both tries to explain a situation and yet mystify it.
Him laying it out that way is him trying to paint himself as someone who understands the "deep magic" of politics and he is offering you a peek into his mighty world. He is presenting views like this in a very patronizing way, and at that same time trying to passive-agressively tell Bernie that he doesn't understand or deserve to run for president.
It is also amusingly tone deaf on how ghoulish his own metaphor is. Literally liking the presidency to an unbreakable dynasty of kings. Also admitting that deep down he knows Bernie is right but he is too pure and naive to do the "necessary evils" of the presidency.
In a nutshell, he dances around talking about it directly because he knows he is nothing more than a lesser evil and thrives on it. But outright admitting that is unthinkable.
That fake eloquence is part of his appeal to a lot of people who tend to think that bombastic speeches indicate a capable politician. A sort of elitist demagogy, if you will.
I don't think he'd want to say "your ideas are great, but our corporate donors don't like them" out loud.
He did say it in elite speake- the translation is "take your "New York" ideas and sit down".
"uh, let me be clear Bernie, if you wanna be the alpha wolf you gotta kill the prey"
"i don't care Barack, i'm not gonna eat that baby"
"uhh, so be it"
reminds me of another phrase he liked when people criticized him or offered better alternatives that didn't work for the party elite.
- "Don't make perfect the enemy of the good." - Obozo
as though there was ever a shot at perfection anywhere on the horizon of U.S. policy. Bernie's slow rolled SocDem ideas were the compromise. and you know what, if the chance came for a perfect shot, you fuckin' take it you dipshit.
4 years of Trump and ? years of Biden after the brilliant Harvard brainking, and this place is about near more fucked than when Obama came in. Reagan era inflation, housing market cornered by speculators and inaccessible to most, a million dead from a plague just in the US, nuclear exchange back on the menu, Yemeni genocide, women's reproductive rights gutted, supreme court packed with psychos, cops more vicious and highly funded than ever. thank god obama played 5-D chess to a stalemate with healthcare and the wall street regulations. imagine, horror, we had national healthcare and powerful institutional stakeholders advocating against vaccine apartheid, making nurse:patient ratios transparent, and not allowing juked stats on hospital bed availability.
but yeah, "purity" politics: bad! negotiating against your constituents before your adversary gets in the room: good!
fuck you obama. i hope your giant estate in hawaii gets swept away by hashem.
it's not surprising that Obama believes the thing about difficult choices because that's been liberal ideology since at least Clinton was president. Probably got more severe when West Wing was airing. That's their entire thing, when a Democrat president does something bad, it's because they had to make a hard choice between something bad and something worse, and so we should be thankful the good serene wise Democrat had the foresight to prevent as much harm as possible. Liberals don't believe in doing good things, they only believe it's possible to mitigate worse things.
David and Solomon were prophets and kings. Probably not the only ones who did double-duty, either.
Aaaaand I find further depths of hate for :obama-drone: that I didn't know I had
What if during the white house correspondences dinner or whatever the words "mene mene tekel upharsin" appeared on the wall behind joe biden
Why the fuck would you not have someone, in this hypothetical scenario, who could know the fucking future and thus have a good idea of the consequences of people’s actions, be the ruler of a state over some fuck who literally bombed a charity organization? Or someone who was the architect of the 1994 Crime Bill?! Or SOMEONE WHO TURNED LIBYA INTO A OPEN AIR SLAVE MARKET?!? HUH? WHERE’S YOUR MEGABRAIN THAT GIVES YOU RULERSHIP THEN? OR ARE YOU JUST ADMITTING YOUR PSYCHOPATHY :matt-jokerfied:
