Honestly I don't meet the Yanks all that much regularly. I have a couple friends who I see semi frequently, and they're obviously ok. The Americans here at Hexbear are super cool. Since Covid lockdowns are breaking, I've been seeing more of them randomly. And in the conversations with them, I'm seeing a lot of mean-ish comments along the lines of "haha, you did something I'm not used to".
For example, in the past month, I've gotten called out for:
- asking a guy at a literal commie beer event if he was a "comrade"
- using the metric system
- moving away from a boring conversation topic by asking a person what their job is, without a good convo transition
- saying colonisation changed African countries
- saying conservatives care more about aesthetics
- joking that I pray to Lenin every morning (thank you lib for pointing out that this isn't what socialism is)
Honestly sarcasm is good and fine with friends. Like, if the love is clearly there, then ya tease me a bit. Dunno, but it feels like these people treat conversations as a competitive sport. Oh ya, these people are all massive libs as well.
I got called 'a fucking commie' by a fascist furry (I'm not even joking the fella proudly shows off pics of his time at the local convention. Red fox in German field grey) co-worker for using Celsius, and then he looked at my hat then saw the actual Soviet pin that's been lodged in my hat for years that nobody other than a ukrainian noticed and his eyes went wide and actually started screaming loudly "you're a fucking communist"
I also got called out for a pin on my bag. A guy at a mall stopped me, asked me why I had a sickle and hammer. I just kind of laughed and he said his dad died in the Korean War. He said I should get arrested and killed, then it was like the one video of the "why are you closed??" guy. He followed me around and tried rousing other people into a chant against me, shouting "communist! communist!" and then he'd get frustrated like "why doesn't anyone care???" I quickly left.
he said his dad died in the Korean War.
Should have said "good"
he said his dad died in the Korean War
owned. His dad shouldn't have been there.
Reddit-brain leaking into offline? When you describe "these people treat conversations as a competitive sport" all I can think of is how every single interaction on reddit is a competition where one person is trying to get another person downvoted so they can get upvoted and "win" the conversation.
Perhaps what I've considered to be reddit-brain is just american-brain and I never realised it.
Never spoken to an American in my life but I wouldn't have thought anybody from the country responsible for "/s" would be remotely capable of using sarcasm
Australian here (sort of), no they don't seem to be super snarky compared to other people I'm around. There is a form of anglo masculine friendship that involves covering over any real emotional intimacy with almost constant jokes and jockeying for clout.
There is a form of anglo masculine friendship that involves covering over any real emotional intimacy with almost constant jokes and jockeying for clout.
Ya I have no patience for this nowadays. Thank you to leftism (and feminism) for pointing this out, so I can avoid it.
Same thing for me. Just like your comment. Thanks for writing it!
I'm not very "sensory" and intimate with my relations, but I always encourage it and never treat people's emotions as a joke.
I used to think I wasn't a "very touch and feel person", but a lot of that had to do with social programming. (I'm still not very touchy, but that has to do with consent (knowing I'll be touched), personality of the other person and my sensory issues.) Kinda like "being Rational" is for internetizens. It was a way to project what I wanted to be as a way to cope with not having my emotional needs met (nor the abilities to meet them!). The same goes for smiling and other very normal human things that for some reason our society pathologized.
All my homies
hate is a strong word, it gives you gastritisdisapprove of toxic masculinity.
There is a form of anglo masculine friendship that involves covering over any real emotional intimacy with almost constant jokes and jockeying for clout.
Based, every single westoid normie destroyed in 1 sentence.
There is a form of anglo masculine friendship that involves covering over any real emotional intimacy with almost constant jokes and jockeying for clout.
This. At my workplace rather than asking a coworker "Is anything wrong?" it's usually "Damn! You look like shit. What happened last night, man?"
This is hard for me to answer since I'm American myself, but I've had at least some exposure to folks from other cultures. And I try to be a sort of armchair sociologist. But take what I say with a grain of salt:
The snarkiness is mainly limited to online spaces and as someone else pointed out, between some masculine friendships in younger folks meant to hide real intimacy. Overall in person, Americans are very non-confrontational, cowardly, and superficial. There's this expectation for example, that everyone here should make conversational small talk and be generally pleasant. Bluntness and being forthright is frowned upon. If someone asks you "how are you?", you're expected to just say "I'm fine, how are you?" And the initial asker is expected to say "I'm fine". If you're not fine, you usually aren't supposed to say so as a response, not even to friends.
The confrontational thing, idk it feels a little harder to describe. I think you'd be surprised how much you can get away with in the US if you're willing to deal with disapproving looks and judgmental thoughts. I recently asked here about Americans' experiences not standing for the national anthem at sporting events. I was expecting a lot more "some dude yelled at me and threatened me until I stood up". But it was mostly just getting looks and people not saying anything, despite it almost certainly being noticed by everyone around and 99% thinking you must be some asshole who doesn't love America.
I think it relates to how capitalism alienates us from each other, breaks apart real communities, and prevents close relationships. And also the suburban lifestyle of giving every (white, middle class) person their own little fiefdom.
I substitute teach and some high schools play the anthem over the announcements. Recently had a class where nobody stood up except for the one white boy with American flag pins. I was so proud lol, and it was likely because the school was vast majority PoC.
saying colonisation changed African countries
I'd have gotten enraged if someone tried to get snarky about that. whitewashing the slave trade and multiple genocides is unforgivable.
Honestly I'd get mad at anyone who thinks colonisation isn't still happening in Africa.
yep, we opened up slave markets in Libya last decade and we're still helping the Saudis genocide Yemenis. and that's not even touching extant European colonies.
The IMF and World banks and international corporations simply replaced colonial governments.
A lot of Americans are just waiting for you to stop talking so they can talk. You can see the impatient expression on their face while the words are bubbling up inside them. People here frequently interrupt others or start talking over them. It's frustrating if you're a normal person who knows how to converse. There is definitely an element of "points scoring" if there are other people around to virtue signal to, and that's probably where the snark comes in. When there's a lot less people around, thanks when you can get people to really talk about weird stuff. The less witnesses to commiting a social no-no like asking if someone believes in aliens, or something like that, the better. That's when they get racist, sexist or political on you though. It's like they know they shouldn't have these opinions and are low key embarrassed about it.
Just my experience working blue collar jobs my whole life.
Yes. All of us are just aspiring MCU actors who failed to get the gig. Also former redditors, so you know our IQs are too high to talk to regular people normally
I think there was a literal "well that happened" in the newest Dr. Strange.
Lol. Ya it's the MCU snippyness. I feel like pop culture, from Friends to Seinfeld to fucking capeshit is heavily to blame.
Americans, as a rule, are almost just dumb assholes. Sounds like the ones you've met have been no exception
I really have met nice ones, so they're not that bad. And the people I'm meeting are educated and progressive, so my expectations is that they'll be ok. And generally they are, just the snarkyness.
I think that most Americans you see traveling around the world will be the Americans who are somewhat wealthy and lib careerists or sexpests. Not a great bunch. Not to say people in the States are much better but I just mean this could be why. I think the normal people are all in the US struggling to pay rent.
Wow, this has to be the first time that I have ever seen anyone attempt to say that Americans without passports are better than those with. It's an original idea, to be sure. Daring, even, when so much evidence is on the other side.
Nah I'm not trying to imply that. I misspoke and should have said "are any better". There are plenty of bad people who don't leave the US. I was just meaning to identify why this specific type of person is the way they are.
All the evidence points the other way: people who have passports are way better than the Americans without. It's one thing that this group of Americans and the rest of the world can agree on.
What evidence? Like I was just speculating but you keep referring to this nebulous evidence but haven't really said anything about it.
Uneducated Americans are on the whole better than educated Americans. If you can avert the onset of antisemitism, the Dropout Heart is the sweetest of all American hearts. Plus in that world, aliens and ghosts are fully real, at the same time. Its awesome
There is a sort of American who pretends that they are a character in a sitcom.
They try to make snarky points, dunk on you, and taunt you at every chance. Just like characters on sitcoms do to each other. They don't understand that sitcoms aren't real life, and that they come across as super rude or even sociopathic. Their brains are utterly convinced that this is what the world is like and anyone who doesn't do this, who treats the world with sincerity, doesn't deserve to be treated seriously.
using the metric system
I gotta admit this is pretty funny though. It's a nice dose of your own medicine for the unending abuse we get any time inches and pounds are mentioned.
My morning routine used to involve me rolling out of bed and saying "Death to liberalism" every morning before I decided that that I was being dumb ass and larping for myself
America is not a monolith, it is big and attitudes vary across it and within it, and any generalization this broad you make about its culture is gonna be wrong enough times that it is useless. The truth is some Americans are like that and some aren't and for all sorts of reasons. But while we're playing at this bad game...
I have lived for extended periods of time in several countries, one of which is America. Americans are not in my experience more prone to either jokey masculine ball-busting or actual snootiness and criticism than any other anglo country, though they are moreso than many non-anglo places. Ball-busting is not uncommon in America but in the UK and England especially it is a sport. Men in England will stop you on the street because they thought of a mean joke to tell you about your appearance, and expect you to laugh, and it happens all the time. That exact 'conversation as competition' thing is stronger there than anywhere I have lived, but points are scored by being 'funny' rather than correct, as it may be in America. They are also terrible about using it to enforce norms, though, jokes or no. The comparison on snark levels in every way comes out worse for the English. Its just bants. Americans are, as someone else said, usually too concerned with what they are about to say to really worry about what you are saying at all.
That said. There are whole cities in America with the rep of everyone being an asshole to strangers (East Coast), though there are also states with the rep of high-strung passive-aggression where people will only ever be totally nice... to your face (Middle Coast). Could be people are just genuinely nice and considerate in my part of it (West Coast). That says nothing of value though because people are very nice here but there is a great deal of incestuous child molestation and everyone knows someone in the KKK (PNW).
One thing I will say though. The sliver of Americans that are the worst for just annoying corrective snark, by a mile, is politically active people on the left. You get this behavior from democrats and communists alike, unforgivably in the latter's case since it is liberalism of the highest order. The internet is to blame I think in that case.
So totally generalising here (sorry again). But I found East Coasters a bit more tolerable as they'd voice their frustration directly. There's been many times that I feel someone from the West Coast is annoyed, but they're trying their damnest to be positive. Or maybe I'm totally wrong here, as I haven't traveled enough.
I love to generalize myself tbf do it all the time its just a game, we are just playing as long as everyone reading us understands it isn't real - especially about California lol. For every Californian 'type', there are more 'atypical' in California than there are people overall in other states. I definitely think you are correct there, there is a fake nice problem, there is a smile through the pain problem. But idk Californians are not non-confrontational or repressed by any means. Just wait until someone gets their drive through order wrong
and any generalization this broad you make about its culture is gonna be wrong enough times that it is useless
Ya I agree with this
moving away from a boring conversation topic by asking a person what their job is, without a good convo transition
can you expand on this? like the american(s) gave you snark for doing this?
**edit: i ask because i (american) find myself incapable of "normal conversation", so i try to be amiable to talk about anything. i mean, unless you want to complain about minorities or whatever. then i'll be curt and excuse myself. i have been told, anecdotally, that americans are "job obsessed" and think asking someone what they do for work is normal, when, apparently, it's not outside the U.S. admittedly, i think asking someone what they do for a living is normal and i'm curious if it's really that strange or presumptuous or sad.
alternatively, if the americans are the ones that gave you a hard time for asking about their job, i have experienced that a few times among americans as an american. there are a few types of americans who don't want to be asked what they do:
- people who hate their job but do not want to admit it to themselves
- rich people who have a completely bullshit job they don't know how to explain, usually through nepotism or social connections
- extremely rich people who have never had a job or even a vanity project and live well off passive income
We were talking about relationships during covid. It was interesting enough for 20+ minutes, but there was a lull in the convo for five seconds. So I tried to change the subject.
I think she was an OK enough person. It was just so out of place to call someone out on the rhetorical faux pas.
Edit: changed minutes to seconds
my guess would be one of those above options, or her career is stalled in a way that she's uncomfortable talking about and decided to be hostile about it.
in any event, 100% a them thing, not a you thing.
It’s the first one mostly. Neoliberalism measures a person’s worthiness to live based on how successful they are by capitalist and heteronormative metrics, so an American with a shitty job or no girlfriend is going to get hostile because they think you’re judging them.
Ya you're 100% right. I think these 4 experiences have been kids that graduated uni with massive hopes, only to be stuck somewhere mediocre, and now they have forever bruised intellect egos. They're way better than actual chuds.
