No, it's not because of my age. Young people these days are even more in-your-face, "toxic", nasty etc than the teens I knew growing up. I don't think this really changes based on their politics
Basically young people have less chill today than they did 20 years ago
This extends to every form of media. Kids shows like Amphibia and other Disney channel stuff have faster dialogue and animation sequences than stuff from 20 years ago.
Video games: FPS shooters have become faster. Halo was the standard back in 2003, but the Call of Duty overtook it to become way more popular. CoD is way faster paced and you die in 2 shots instead of Halo's 20 or so.
MOBAs: the entire genre is a symptom of this.
Overwatch: combining MOBAs with FPS is also a symptom of this, the amount of stuff you need to pay attention to is insanely high
Everything 20 years ago, and even 10 years ago, was just way slower and normal.
I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me
Okay, for all the naysayers, this video was the impetus for me posting this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0DEVvjkuIU
Someone posted this here in a different thread, and I realized that if this show were made today, over half the population would be screeching about it. If you posted this in like...25% of all english-speaking discord servers out there, it'd be met with hundreds of racial slurs and threats of violence.
This wasn't the case in 2002. There would be racist comments, but it would be mostly grumbling from older people. Nowadays it's literal "Kill all Ns and dropkick Ns into the trashcan" and it's coming from white teenage girls and boys AND poc girls and boys who hang out with them.
It's just so obvious to me that the fundamentals of behavior have changed, even if you look at other issues that have nothing to do with racism
2002 was real close post 9/11 wasn't it? were the teens less racist or were you less aware of it? like not asking as gotcha question just kinda wanna know your opinion on this
2002 was real close post 9/11 wasn’t it? were the teens less racist or were you less aware of it?
I'm Indian and I never got any racist comments even though I came of age in the 2000s.
I lived in NJ/NY though
There's definitely more racism now than post-9/11. Both specifically against Indians, and also just in general against other POC. Maybe less Islamophobia specifically.
If you posted this in like…25% of all english-speaking discord servers out there, it’d be met with hundreds of racial slurs and threats of violence.
This wasn’t the case in 2002.
Well for one discord wasn’t around in 2002. I think you might have a severe case of Too Online. Fortunately there is an easy fix. Log off for a bit.
Well for one discord wasn’t around in 2002. I think you might have a severe case of Too Online.
Police violence, racist shootings, and Karens calling the cops on you for no reason have increased too, but thanks for the whitesplanation
You know what, you’ve turned me. I’m convinced. The shiny lights and fast paced action of Overwatch really did make children more reactionary or whatever.
It's more that the lack of chill, a critical element needed in the stepping back in order to analyze something properly, has made people both more reactionary AND more hooked onto faster-paced video games
It sounds like you're bent on proving me right!
No it hasn't.
All of that has gone on forever, but no one was able to record it with a smartphone and the news wouldn't report it because it was business as usual.
Be careful using online behavior to gauge general outlook. These voices only seem numerous because the internet collapses geography -- it's a self-selected group of angry people, scattered across the english speaking world, who are posting hateful things because they haven't got anything better to do. They don't represent the median attitude.
discord is not even used by like 70% of youngsters, and among those that do most aren't super active. people who use discord a lot are weird, they do not represent the majority of youth.
"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress." (From a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274)
Taken from: https://proto-knowledge.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-is-wrong-with-young-people-today.html
Hell, there's a quote from Socrates or Plato about how youths are so impatient and impolite
I thought this would be from the early 1900s lol not the fucking 13th century!
Once chess became speed chess the kids started calling me slurs! Many people are saying this.
So off the top of my head, I think this is what happens:
- you have a farming society
- the society starts becoming urbanized/modernized, the "materialism" and "hedonism" etc ensues
- the society keeps going until it collapses from war or famine
- everyone who isn't a farmer dies of starvation, rinse and repeat cycle
I think we're probably just on the tail end of that cycle now, which is why people can look back and point at ancient Egypt or whatever having the same comments that I made
the society keeps going until it collapses from war or famine
doing a ton of heavy lifting. "it keeps going until it falls, but it's defintely the fault of materialism that it falls even if there is more time between materialism and collapse than materialism and founding."
If you had a society where everyone opened eh door for each other and only played checkers, they would still get invaded and eventually have a really bad harvest. And the farmers would die because they also need to eat and whomever is strongest decides where the food goes, not the people who made it.
doing a ton of heavy lifting. “it keeps going until it falls
well yeah, it wouldn't do anything else. Unless you have communism with a 2-child policy you will eventually just collapse, or invade a bunch of other people. Because otherwise the population keeps rising to meet the food glut produced by efficiency adaptations, and you're just as susceptible to famine as you were before
tbh I'm not really sure what your point is
My point is that this has absolutely nothing to do with your point about kids being too materialistic. You've just done the cycle of empire but included a step where the kids are rude.
I actually disagree with the OP about how kids these days generally are, but even so, I'm getting really tired of the "hehe old people thousands of years ago ranted about young people therefore nothing changes and nothing can ever change" memes. They're about as grating as "Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory" was and terminate thoughts in much the same way.
There is a wider point beyond mockery of cantankerous contempt for youth by their elders implicit in the mockery itself: The young are different, subversive, and divergent of their parents' mentalities and psychological makeup. Because youth stand to inherit society, they are also critical of it as they actively shape it, and that creates an existensial crisis in living antecedent generations who built and maintain that society and its systems of exploitation and oppression.
When one's children or considerably younger siblings deny the virtue of our social existence through direct action, cultural trends, and criticisms , that creates a cognitive despair in the mind of elder reactionaries. The person I quoted, was basically an exclamation to the young of his generation: "know your place is beneath me!".
There was a post on Hexbear a few weeks ago about children and the way American society - and affiliated cultures at large - treat children and by extension, the young. With fear at the root cause, youth are treated as people whose humanity and rights are as conditional on obedience and compliance to their guardians and the state. Instead of an attitude of creativity and possibility being nurtured, it is punished with an environment of conformity and limitations.
My point is that experience and defeat should serve as guides for all living generations of humanity and not fetters on humanity's emerging generations, but this behavioral trend of condescending, patronizing, and existential angst over the young is nothing new.
You made your argument well and I find myself agreeing with it. :order-of-lenin:
What? Kids were fucking vile 20 or 30 years ago and the consensus among longtime teachers seems to be that kids now are substantially more supportive of each other, informally polite, and there are way fewer homophobic pieces of shit than there used to be
I hate knee-jerk "nothing ever changes and nothing can change" cliches that cite Greek old people rants from thousands of years ago, but that said, generally the kids I work with seem all right to me. :edgeworth-shrug:
This thread is fucking hilarious. I work with kids they are so much better than any generation in a while.
The things they have less chill for are, with few exceptions, things that it actually suck to be chill about, like homophobia for example. The fact that they're less chill is a good thing.
I don't know what this has to do with video games or children's cartoons either stop thinking about both of those things.
I work with kids they are so much better than any generation in a while.
Same. As far as I can tell, bullying has gone down since when I started, and it's no longer normal for homophobic slurs to be flung around. :I-was-saying:
Not only is it no longer normal it's considered like terminally lame and kind of pathetic
I've noticed that even in online games. Sure, some hateful shit is spewed, but if some :grillman: says "gay" as a bad thing, it's very likely to get responded to with "ok boomer" or suggestions to take a nap.
In certain state legislators that is a thing thats happening right now.
We need to bring back "We're here. We're queer. Get used to it."
Video games: FPS shooters have become faster.
get the fuck off my lawn kiddo lmao
I know! I am so bored with fps games that move at a snails pace and have no movement so it's all shotgun campers and sniper campers bc there's no way to manuever vertically and your running speed is capped at like 20kph at most. It sucks. CoD is just funnel after funnel after funnel bc you move so slowly and can't manuever vertically. Does rocket jumping even exist outside Team Fortress?
Here’s a thread full of quotes, complete with citations, of people complaining about how aggressive and pleasure-seeking the youth have become. Most of them are dated BCE.
I agree there are differences that come with growing up inside the attention economy, but they’re more subtle.
EDIT: Disclaimer: I actually disagree with the OP about "kids these days" and generally see them as all right even if I am not "with it" anymore. :I-was-saying:
That said, society :society: can improve or worsen somewhat regardless of what a :reddit-logo: popularized quote about grumpy old people said thousands of years ago.
Yes, generally old people are mad at what young people are doing, but things do change and going too far with the "hehe thousands of years ago old people were mad too" meme can have weird conclusions like "nothing ever changes ever and nothing ever can change" which is ideological poison to the left.
Fwiw I read the :reddit-logo: quote in a newspaper before :reddit-logo: existed. But point taken, especially since the particular quote you’re talking about is likely fake. If you read the examples in that thread, you can actually see that what adults complain about has changed. But I think the point still stands that it’s pretty normal for adults to perceive young people as more deviant than they were at that age, even when that’s not true.
it’s pretty normal for adults to perceive young people as more deviant than they were at that age
That can be true at the same time that "because :grillman: tend to be out of touch that means nothing ever changes and nothing ever can change" is also false.
Personally, I've hit my head a lot in that time so I'm going to blame the brain damage instead of the kids.
I've got a seizure disorder and I skate so I've had to come to terms with it.
What?
Video games: FPS shooters have become faster. Halo was the standard back in 2003, but the Call of Duty overtook it to become way more popular. CoD is way faster paced and you die in 2 shots instead of Halo’s 20 or so.
TTK (Time to kill) is a terrible metric to measure the speed of a game. Apex Legends and Overwatch both have much slower TTK than Valorant and CS:GO. Also, I would argue that Team Deathmatch modes are much faster paced than Battle Royale games, which have a lot more downtime and were huge in recent years.
MOBAs: the entire genre is a symptom of this.
Overwatch: combining MOBAs with FPS is also a symptom of this, the amount of stuff you need to pay attention to is insanely high
It's the exact opposite. MOBAs are literally a result of players wanting to have to pay attention to less stuff.
The first MOBA was a mod for Warcraft 3, a mode where you control only your heroes and all the other units are automated. This was a mod because in Warcraft 3 itself, you had to manually control and pay attention to everything. Not just your heroes, but also your weak minions, your workers, your buildings, all stuff that is completely automated in MOBAs. Go play the original StarCraft Broodwar and tell me MOBAs are faster paced than their RTS predecessors.
Lastly, Overwatch is not "combining MOBAs with FPS", it's a hero shooter. It has nothing in common with MOBAs except for named heroes, but like, you wouldn't say that Mortal Kombat or Mario Kart have MOBA elements.
The earliest online shooters like unreal were so fucking fast most of the time you could barely tell what's going on. You would rocket and nade jump around the map so fast everything would be a blur. When I moved over to halo and cod it was like playing a shooter in slow motion. Idk how this person could think shooters got to fast. If anything they got significantly more playable to the average person.
Also to op if it was taking you any more than 3-5 shots to kill somebody in halo you were just really bad lol.
Yeah this, I have played and watched a decent amount of Brood War and it's probably the biggest-brained clusterfuck management click-fest that's ever been created
The entire goal of StarCraft 2 was to raise the soft skill floor and lower the ceiling, allowing you to do cool shit without needing the speed and precision equivalent to literally Mozart
And I'm not exaggerating - they make Flight of the Bumblebees look like fucking Mary Had a Little Lamb. These players can be hitting bursts of 10 completely different keys per second or even higher. If you have just 6 spellcasters and you want them not to waste all 6 spells on the same exact target, you're doing shit like hitting:
lmb ctrl+1 lmb ctrl+2 lmb ctrl+3 lmb ctrl+4 lmb ctrl+5 lmb ctrl+6 1 T rmb 2 T rmb 3 T rmb 4 T rmb 5 T rmb 6 T rmb lmb-drag rmb ctrl+f1
And doing that in the space of like 2 seconds where every mouse button click is on a different 20 pixel target on the screen, and then hitting another 30 buttons to reposition the army and oh, right in the middle of the first 30 and second 30 buttons of this single attack you're hitting:
f4(camera moves away from fight) lmb z lmb z lmb z lmb z lmb z lmb z lmb z f2(camera moves again) lmb p f1(camera moves back to fight)
to make like 7 units and 1 workers.
Then now that you've cast those 6 spells you drag your view window around and reassign all your hotkeys back to the units they had been on before
lmb-drag ctrl 1 lmb-drag ctrl 2 lmb-drag ctrl 3 lmb-drag ctrl 4 lmb-drag ctrl 5 lmb-drag ctrl 6
That's all in like 5 or 6 seconds for these people.
Every single keyboard action including P, L, and control+9 are all one handed by the way.
Imagine you're boxing and you duck under a punch, you throw a punch back, and as your fist is flying you glance way off to your left at two numbers, add them in your head and then as the punch is landing you shout out the sum of the two numbers, and then you keep doing it over and over and over again for an hour.
--
Now compare this full sequence in Brood War:
-
lmb ctrl+1 lmb ctrl+2 lmb ctrl+3 lmb ctrl+4 lmb ctrl+5 lmb ctrl+6 1 T rmb 2 T rmb 3 T rmb 4 T rmb 5 T rmb 6 T rmb lmb-drag rmb ctrl+f1
-
f4(camera moves away from fight) lmb z lmb z lmb z lmb z lmb z lmb z lmb z f2(camera moves again) lmb p f1(camera moves back to fight)
-
lmb-drag ctrl 1 lmb-drag ctrl 2 lmb-drag ctrl 3 lmb-drag ctrl 4 lmb-drag ctrl 5 lmb-drag ctrl 6
To the same exact move in StarCraft 2:
- 3 hold T lmb lmb lmb lmb lmb lmb
- 5 z z z z z z z 1 e
(Step 3 is rendered unnecessary in StarCraft 2, and step 2 does not make you look away from the fight at all)
-
Maybe you are just slower? 10 years ago i had a 1700 elo in age of empires now i somtimes lose to the bots (900). So i have become that much slower.
Also. Rts gave way to mobas and total war. Both are les taxing on short term memory to play.
That being said kids these days dont seem to know how to use a computer.
And milenials are the harry potter/ marvel generation. The stereotype is that they are conformist and a little slow.That being said kids these days dont seem to know how to use a computer.
the consequences of slick mobile operating systems are kids who don't even grasp the concept of file structures
Maybe you are just slower?
tbh I feel faster than I was 10 years ago. But I'm 30, idk how old you are
Video games: FPS shooters have become faster. Halo was the standard back in 2003, but the Call of Duty overtook it to become way more popular. CoD is way faster paced and you die in 2 shots instead of Halo’s 20 or so.
Hold on let me check the comments to see if the boomer shooter and arena shooter fans are already getting after you for this.
ok yeah they are ok no need for me to continue this comment then
Not even boomer shooters, call of duty modern warfare 2 from 2009 has a much faster time to kill then anything you can play nowdays. Thanks to the stopping power perk and grenade launcher spam.
Like an assualt rifle would kill you in two body shots from across the map.
OG Doom 2 deathmatch is still the best and the fastest. By comparison, even Quake and UT were molasses.
Most of the kids I work with are generally good kids even if I'm old and not as "with it" as they are. :I-was-saying:
sorry, i've wired myself to hate anything that sounds like some old-people-complaining-about-the-old-days bullshit. even funnier is that you're probably like 30 years old.
even funnier is that you’re probably like 30 years old.
damn. on point.
many people think the time that they were age 0-mid 20's was the best era, and the current era is worse. I would say most people from each generation say this eventually.
i do wonder if it's a phenomenon since the 20th century after we moved away from being mostly farmers. I have a hard time imagining a farmer in the 1700s thinking their childhood was the best of times, when change(and news of change) happened so much more slowly. Also we face less hardship today. we don't have droughts or famines, and we don't have a shitload of our family members dying because we have vaccines.
Here is the video that made me think about this the most. When was Saturday Night live the best? When you were a teenager: https://youtu.be/AGjxX4gvaqk
i do wonder if it’s a phenomenon since the 20th century after we moved away from being mostly farmers.
I've read old texts and studies, and yes they do say this. I specifically remember 1900s Brits complaining about how "city life" brought on an increase in "nervous energy" or something like that
It's easy to chalk this up as "every generation being nostalgic".
But on the other hand, it could also be that we're heading towards the theoretical limit of a cycle that started with industrialization, and that every subsequent generation REALLY ACTUALLY IS more nervous and anxious and faster paced than the last, until it all comes crashing down and civilization starts anew again.
