they enlisted while stating that movie as their inspiration
If a movie about space marines fighting bug monsters was the underlying impetus behind your entire career... idk, man. That sounds like there's another problem buried (shallowly) under the surface.
That, or someone is just jerking your chain.
About as plausible as the folks that claim Terminator movies got them into designing ChatGPT.
People can and do sometimes do stupid things because they got the idea or inspiration from their entertainment.
We're getting dangerously close up "DOOM caused Columbine" levels of discourse.
Star Trek drove some kids to try to develop hyposprays and communicators, citing the show as their inspiration in adulthood.
The proximate cause for a marginal improvement to jet sprays is not Star Trek, I'm sorry. No more than the proximate cause to a marginally improved welding torch is Star Wars.
You’re willing to believe people power sliding into parking spaces but you’re not willing to believe impressionable young people don’t decide to enlist
Yes. Because one is an trivial impulse decision and the other is a career choice five years minimum.
I don’t think my claim is incredible
I watched Hairy and the Hendersons once and now I think Bigfoot is real.
You have seriously never met or been related to someone making bad impulsive decisions with minimal forethought to them that had years of consequences before?
There is an abundance of demographic data that predicts which kinds of people are most likely to enlist. Social and economic precarity. History of family enlistment. Access to higher education. Regional geopolitics (ie, 9/11).
I've yet to see a successful military recruitment drive that involved repeated screenings of Starship Troopers.
That isn’t the same thing
Its the same Culture War nonsense I've been seeing my entire life. Starship Troopers turned my daughter into a war criminal! Teletubbies made my son start wearing a purse! Showgirls turned me into a pole dancer!
apparently UKIP believes in Bigfoot
They are one of the worst-run parties in a country overflowing with dogshit politicians. It would not surprise me even slightly to find out half their leadership bought into some kind of Cryptid hoax.
the Department of Defense is really wasting its time and surely never has gotten a single recruit through coercive messaging
The coercive messaging over the last 20 years has only gone up while recruitment has only gone down. There's definitely some value in the Pentagon reminding people that a career in the military exists. But if I had to guess how many people signed up to join the Navy after walking out of the the latest Top Gun versus how many joined the Navy because a recruiter showed up at their school and directly propositioned them, I'd consider a 1:100 spread generous on the side of direct recruitment.
You’re hyperbolizing what I said into something I never claimed.
Starship Troopers -> provoked me into joining the military -> So now I'm participating in war crimes...
Which step did I hyperbolize?
I’m supposing Reese’s Pieces didn’t sell a single additional bag of candy after E.T. was a hit.
Selecting a particular brand of candy to eat is not comparable to dedicating the next five years of your life to indentured servitude.
But you're right. We've definitely hit :wall-talk:
I am certain that entertainment "does" have an impact on the people who consume it. However, the degree to which it impacts people varies and is probably pretty hard to gauge in most cases. I heavily doubt Starship Troopers turns people into Fascists by the droves but it might further enhance reactionary sentiments in people that already harbour them or that are responsive towards them. (Which I assume depends heavily on the individual and many other factors). What im saying is that while you have a point to some degree (I think) you basically have to look at every single case and I doubt that in "most" cases a single piece of propaganda (especially one of the quality of Starship Troopers) is the deciding factor that makes someone join the US Marine.
Like lets turn this around ...the reason I want to balkanize and demilitarize the USA is NOT "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" even if it might have nudged me towards thinking more critical of republicans. It was merely one step on a long road towards radicalization from a somewhat "centrist" person and I think its a process (most of the time)
Im sure there are instances in which one single piece of propaganda captures someones heart but I dont think they are "that" common.
The problem isn't really the individual piece of propaganda, but rather the fact that the entire culture is steeped in it.
Like lets be real Starship Troopers "might" influence some nerds but stuff like Fox News is a much bigger problem and rots the minds of entire generations on a nationwide scale.
I think it is a really interesting topic, and I don't consider myself above or free from the influence of propaganda. However, you would have to get people on board with the idea that everything is propaganda. While it is true that liberals may agree that "Mein Kampf" is propaganda, they perceive the New York Times or the BBC as unbiased, factual sources that serve the common good. Which sure it might be better than Fox News but come on.
It's not that people join the army because of CoD, it's that games like CoD or novels like Starship Troopers make the army a "cool" job. That way when the recruiter is at your high-school and you're picking between that and the meat packing plant, it's the one you go with.
games like CoD or novels like Starship Troopers make the army a “cool” job
I'll spot you CoD. But, again, I can't help notice a negative correlation between hours of CoD played as well as copies sold and per-capita recruitment. Media might be raising the public approval of the military, but it isn't encouraging any significant number of people to actually do military work as a career path.
when the recruiter is at your high-school and you’re picking between that and the meat packing plant
You're going where the pay is. And the meat packing plant pays much better.
You don't need a degree to pack meat. And, unless you're enrolled in a military college (highly competitive and officers-only) assistance is capped at $4500/year.
People have both options and are choosing the military.
Military recruitment has been falling continuously since 9/11 and its been nearly a decade since any branch has hit its recruitment targets.
there is no safety net beyond banning jokes that could catch someone so historically ignorant as to enlist in the actual army over fucking starship troopers. we cannot blueprint society from immaculately hilarious edgecases.
off-the-charts failure of society that level of ignorance and possibility for enlistment may be, lying that blame at the feet of the satirists is unfair. testimony in the thread alleges the game sticks to the film's themes so we shouldn't jump to the assumption this game is engaging in glorification & making people enlist.
you're contending all this but what's your prescription? should satire not be made or shown on the grounds that people it targets sometimes embrace it?
I think it would be cool if we had a tradition of absurd comedic mask-removal scenes at the end of satires, or even in the end credits. They just get gradually more and more explicit until at some point they run into the camera and the director comes around into frame and is like GUYS DONT DO THIS ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID?
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If a movie about space marines fighting bug monsters was the underlying impetus behind your entire career... idk, man. That sounds like there's another problem buried (shallowly) under the surface.
That, or someone is just jerking your chain.
About as plausible as the folks that claim Terminator movies got them into designing ChatGPT.
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We're getting dangerously close up "DOOM caused Columbine" levels of discourse.
The proximate cause for a marginal improvement to jet sprays is not Star Trek, I'm sorry. No more than the proximate cause to a marginally improved welding torch is Star Wars.
This is pure clickbait
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Power sliding in the parking garage is certainly dumb. But I'll note they didn't quit their jobs to become professional car thieves.
Incredible claims require incredible evidence. The relationship between Verhovan films and military enlistment is casual at best
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Yes. Because one is an trivial impulse decision and the other is a career choice five years minimum.
I watched Hairy and the Hendersons once and now I think Bigfoot is real.
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There is an abundance of demographic data that predicts which kinds of people are most likely to enlist. Social and economic precarity. History of family enlistment. Access to higher education. Regional geopolitics (ie, 9/11).
I've yet to see a successful military recruitment drive that involved repeated screenings of Starship Troopers.
Its the same Culture War nonsense I've been seeing my entire life. Starship Troopers turned my daughter into a war criminal! Teletubbies made my son start wearing a purse! Showgirls turned me into a pole dancer!
They are one of the worst-run parties in a country overflowing with dogshit politicians. It would not surprise me even slightly to find out half their leadership bought into some kind of Cryptid hoax.
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The coercive messaging over the last 20 years has only gone up while recruitment has only gone down. There's definitely some value in the Pentagon reminding people that a career in the military exists. But if I had to guess how many people signed up to join the Navy after walking out of the the latest Top Gun versus how many joined the Navy because a recruiter showed up at their school and directly propositioned them, I'd consider a 1:100 spread generous on the side of direct recruitment.
Starship Troopers -> provoked me into joining the military -> So now I'm participating in war crimes...
Which step did I hyperbolize?
Selecting a particular brand of candy to eat is not comparable to dedicating the next five years of your life to indentured servitude.
But you're right. We've definitely hit :wall-talk:
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I am certain that entertainment "does" have an impact on the people who consume it. However, the degree to which it impacts people varies and is probably pretty hard to gauge in most cases. I heavily doubt Starship Troopers turns people into Fascists by the droves but it might further enhance reactionary sentiments in people that already harbour them or that are responsive towards them. (Which I assume depends heavily on the individual and many other factors). What im saying is that while you have a point to some degree (I think) you basically have to look at every single case and I doubt that in "most" cases a single piece of propaganda (especially one of the quality of Starship Troopers) is the deciding factor that makes someone join the US Marine.
Like lets turn this around ...the reason I want to balkanize and demilitarize the USA is NOT "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" even if it might have nudged me towards thinking more critical of republicans. It was merely one step on a long road towards radicalization from a somewhat "centrist" person and I think its a process (most of the time)
Im sure there are instances in which one single piece of propaganda captures someones heart but I dont think they are "that" common. The problem isn't really the individual piece of propaganda, but rather the fact that the entire culture is steeped in it.
Like lets be real Starship Troopers "might" influence some nerds but stuff like Fox News is a much bigger problem and rots the minds of entire generations on a nationwide scale.
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I think it is a really interesting topic, and I don't consider myself above or free from the influence of propaganda. However, you would have to get people on board with the idea that everything is propaganda. While it is true that liberals may agree that "Mein Kampf" is propaganda, they perceive the New York Times or the BBC as unbiased, factual sources that serve the common good. Which sure it might be better than Fox News but come on.
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It's not that people join the army because of CoD, it's that games like CoD or novels like Starship Troopers make the army a "cool" job. That way when the recruiter is at your high-school and you're picking between that and the meat packing plant, it's the one you go with.
I'll spot you CoD. But, again, I can't help notice a negative correlation between hours of CoD played as well as copies sold and per-capita recruitment. Media might be raising the public approval of the military, but it isn't encouraging any significant number of people to actually do military work as a career path.
You're going where the pay is. And the meat packing plant pays much better.
The meat packing plant will pay my college?
The fact is both processing and military recruitment are concentrated in the American south. People have both options and are choosing the military.
You don't need a degree to pack meat. And, unless you're enrolled in a military college (highly competitive and officers-only) assistance is capped at $4500/year.
Military recruitment has been falling continuously since 9/11 and its been nearly a decade since any branch has hit its recruitment targets.
there is no safety net beyond banning jokes that could catch someone so historically ignorant as to enlist in the actual army over fucking starship troopers. we cannot blueprint society from immaculately hilarious edgecases.
off-the-charts failure of society that level of ignorance and possibility for enlistment may be, lying that blame at the feet of the satirists is unfair. testimony in the thread alleges the game sticks to the film's themes so we shouldn't jump to the assumption this game is engaging in glorification & making people enlist.
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you're contending all this but what's your prescription? should satire not be made or shown on the grounds that people it targets sometimes embrace it?
I think it would be cool if we had a tradition of absurd comedic mask-removal scenes at the end of satires, or even in the end credits. They just get gradually more and more explicit until at some point they run into the camera and the director comes around into frame and is like GUYS DONT DO THIS ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID?
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