- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@sh.itjust.works
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1338851
Archived version: https://archive.ph/yDjTx
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230811193345/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-fire-all-regional-military-recruitment-chiefs-zelenskiy-2023-08-11/
Never heard of hexbear but why does an instance that claims to be leftist use Trump memes and back Russia?
Trump is funny. Obviously. Terrible but hilarious. We don't back Russia we just understand NATO to generally be far more destructive and deadly. That's just old Tom Bombadilaros thoughts.
That's so dumb... To consider a defensive alliance more destructive and deadly that a corrupt state waging a war of expansion
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A defence of what? The people who invented global warming? Nah, hard pass.
Sure it's defensive, I just wish the people it's defending were attacked more
Hell yeah brother we defended the shit out of Libya
A Defensive alliance made up of all the great colonial powers.
Defensive alliance that bombs every third world country that dares to go against the interests of the imperial core? Who are they "defending again?
Also how much has NATO expanded since the end of the cold war with its mafia protection racket style tactics in Europe?
NATO is defensive? lol, lmao
That's Ukraine, it used to be considered the most corrupt place in Europe by the Western media right until February 2022
That's also Ukraine since they're trying to take territory from the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics after they declared independence following the coup against Viktor Yanukovych in 2014
Serbia, Libya, and Afghanistan were all defensive operations.
"That's so dumb, to consider a defensive alliance with the Serbian Black Hand more destructive and deadly than the Central Power's Imperialism waging a war of expansion" -Average Allied Nations Second International Member, 1914
this is why we support Russia (Donbass to be Precise ) , this is also why Propagnda does not only happens to "other people" Mr. @Revanee@lemmy.one
A military alliance of several superpower nations VS one angry revanchist state. Who's more dangerous?
Russia - starts wars and threatens nuclear holocaust - you sleep
NATO - literally just exists - you wake
Russia's #1 export is troll farms and that's why Russia is the most hated country in the world. Y'all just give people more reason to hate Russia.
How many millions of civilians were murdered/killed/starved/driven from their homes/displaced by American and NATO led imperialist wars such as the bombing of Yugoslavia, the invasion of Afghanistan, the bombing of Libya, or Isr*el's genocidal occupation of Palestine, which is proudly supported by the US and NATO?
Fewer than Russia but you LOVE when Russia does it.
You honestly think less civilians were killed in all those things COMBINED than by Russia? Really? That's actually one of the most wild liberal claims I've ever seen, and thats saying something. You've lost attachment to reality.
Prove me wrong. If you can't, well of course you're a troll farm and you're part of the reason Russia has a reputation as the shitstain of the world.
You made the extraordinary claim. Your job to provide proof.
Also I'm an American communist from New England. One of the posts on my profile is about weird shit in the American Pie movies. Another recent one you can actually see is about Skyrim. Clearly troll farm shit. (I'd point out the idea that the Kremlin would bother to astroturf lemmy is INSANE, but that ones been falling on deaf ears because you all are so self important).
So I'm supposed to believe that a bunch of queers are simping for a dictatorship that murders queers?
Jesus I really doubt someone with Fae in their name is cishet but you used that word really slurishly.
I'm not. Looking at the Ukraine War with the nuance and knowledge of geopolitics it deserves isn't simping for Putin. I hate the Putin regime, especially what they do to their queer community. Its not like Ukraine is that much better on queer issues though?
My posting history goes back three years before federation. You'll find very few of my posts were about the Ukraine war.
I'm obviously queer af. And wtf about that was slur, and how could you be more bothered that someone used the word "queer" online more than a dictatorship that genocides queer people.
Unless you hate queer people, and hate being reminded they exist, and you want them to be removed from the world.
What nuance? No one from Hexbear has posted anything nuanced, it's all whataboutism of every other country that isn't Russia.
Y'all are literally more offended than anyone would criticize Russia than anything else.
I am a bisexual man. I have two girlfriends and they are both trans. I have a trans cousin. And a litany of trans and otherwise queer friends, on and offline. The way you used queer in your post came off slurish whether you intended it or not. If you want to do liberalism solipism and not believe I could genuinely hold these positions as an american queer go ahead, but I do. I can both hate the Vladimir Putin and the Russian government for what they are doing to their queer population (I am actually very upset and offended by that, much more than your slightly slurish use of the word queer), and recognize that America and NATO do more evil in the world in general than Russia could ever dream of. And that if I want to advance the cause of Communism, the current imperialist world order lead by the United States needs to fall first.
People have posted about the history of the War in Donbass, Ukraine's Nazi problems that the western media was admitting to right up until the invasion, and NATO encirclement plenty.
I would like to remind you that this is a thread about the Ukraine war. In other threads, believe it or not, we talk about other subjects.
hey are you and your two girlfriends single
I mean, one has like 20 other partners and the other one has one other partner so its an open polycule I guess lol, though I dont know any of the first's other partners. I do exchange Star Trek memes with the second girlfriend's girlfriend though.
Russia is more imperialist and more capitalist than the US.
Communism, like actual communism? Sounds great to me.
Russia? Is just as close to communism as the sun is to being cold.
Russia is not even close to being more imperialist than the US. I'd describe its actions in Ukraine as revanchist, not imperialist, and to be clear thats still bad. But United States does like 1000% the amount of neoimperalist garbage throughout the global south and thats well documented: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
And that article is just the overt stuff, not the just regular old economic plundering of the global south they get up to usually.
More capitalist? Eh, I guess that can be argued. Both countries are run by oligarchs though. The USA is just more polite about it.
We don't disagree on this and I never stated otherwise. You have very clearly strawmanned me.
I put forth the idea that an oligarchy where the oligarchs are somewhat nerfed by infighting and changing of power between presidents is marginally better than an oligarchy with a dictator that cannot be removed.
American oligarchs are barely infighting. At the end of the day, the capitalist class has class solidarity, even if they quibble over abortion. There's a communist term (you say you are fine with actual communism, so you shouldnt have a problem with it since its a term Marx invented) called "dictatorship of the bourgeoise". Thats what Americans live under. The difference between that and a more overt autocracy is basically politeness about it. I won't deny that the United States has better queer rights than Russia (for now... I'm not confident in how long that will continue to be the case, I am deathly afraid the United States is quickly sliding towards fascism) and I would rather live here than Russia as a bi man. On that we don't disagree. We disagree on the geopolitical implications of the War in Ukraine. We do not disagree that Russia's government is bad, or even that Putin did a bad thing by invading.
What's your goal then anyway?
Any time in history a dictator starts invading, it's never just one country. We literally just went through this with Hitler in WW2. Germany is just reuniting culturally similar people, and everyone looks the other way, until he isn't.
This isn't about just Ukraine. It's not the first or the last. Russia would happily conquer US territory if there was no one to stop him.
So what's your goal? Disband NATO, let the US fall?
Let China and Russia carve up the US between them?
Despite every valid criticism of the US, and they are endless, you admit it's better to live as a citizen of the US than under a homophobic dictator.
My goal is creating the material conditions for revolution, and for that to happen the global south needs to come out from under the imperialist heel of the United States and its allies. It is a completely necessary step towards communism. That does not mean I think that Russia is communist like you said before. It just means that I think the US and allies are the current greatest evil in the world and I support things that weaken its power. That is pretty much the ML view of geopolitics at its root. If the US and Russia were both equally or near-equally bad imperialist powers doing equally bad things around the world, I would feel differently, but they aren't.
And I don't think there's any evidence that Putin is an insane megalomaniac to that extent. With Hitler there was evidence, it was always part of his ideology. I definitely think its its wild to imply that he has ambitions conquering the US or anything like that. Thats just not based in reality. Based on the evidence I've seen, and the peace deals he has offered only to be vetoed by NATO, I dont even think he seeks to reconquer all of Ukraine. I think his invasion, as much as I disagree with it, was mostly motivated by Donbass and NATO encirclement.
See, this is where you are completely out of touch of reality.
There's no evidence that Putin ISNT another wannabe Hitler. He's a dictator that can't be removed because he kills off all his political rivals. He's a liar who will pretend his invasion force is just running training exercises. He's threatened to use nukes, even though it's basically just mutually assured destruction.
And sure, Putin now wants "peace" because this war is insanely costly for him, everyone expected Ukraine to fall within days. Putin was supposed to conquer Ukraine before NATO could act. So Putin has no choice but peace if he wants to keep the 1/5 he's already conquered. Pleace, that is, until he starts running training exercises along the border again.
The real question of the day for y'all is, why is Russia conquering neighboring countries instead of making alliances? Why didn't Russia and Ukraine start a Eastern European Treaty Organization? A treaty would have massively reinforced Russia against NATO without gutting it's military. I don't see any benefit for Russia turning it into a way except for Putin being an expansion thirsty megalomaniac.
Show me the numbers, liberal. Post your source for that wild claim.
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You're counting both sides but then blaming only Russia lol? Hard to take that seriously. Give us Ukrainian deaths, preferably only civilian deaths, and then we might have a conversation.
That would be the United States actually. Especially the last thing since Russia has never nuked anyone and America has.
You know how US Republicans like to claim that they are the party that ended slavery?
If you have to dig way back in history to make your point relevant and ignore everything that's happening in the present day, your point is stupid and your mental stretching looks ridiculous.
I don't have to dig back very far to find US atrocities actually. The Afgan war ended two years ago and was one of the counterpoints brought up to you.
But the idea that the United States is acutally better today than when they dropped the bombs is rich. At least we were nominally fighting fascism then.
ETA: OK so if by "nuclear terrorism" you mean... the mere act of having nukes and the implicit threat of using them. America has nukes too. Today. In 2023. Or is it only nuclear terrorism when bad country has nukes?
Putin has threatened nukes. Biden has not threatened nukes.
America was fighting a fascist enemy, not against fascism itself. America practically invented fascism.
There are no limit of ways to criticize the US, but it's slowly, marginally getting better. The US is slowly progressing.
Russia is getting worse.
You dont need to say the words "I threaten nukes!" to threaten nukes. Thats the whole point of mutually assured destruction. Merely having nukes is nuclear terrorism.
Well we agree on something lol.
The US is demonstrably getting worse on trans rights, an issue I assume'd you'd care about.
And its definitely not gotten better about imperialist power projection overseas.
Very much and on the STATE LEVEL, some states are taking right away. On a national level, trans people have never been so socially accepted before, and it shows. Trans people being out has never been higher.
Now in your precious Russia, your life is at risk just for being under suspicion of being gay, much less being publically trans.
State level for now . And those states are like half of them. The GOP is gearing up for a genocide, whether they'll be successful I don't know. But all my trans friends in the US are scared, including those living in Blue states. All of them wish they could get the fuck out of this country.
Stop this. Its a ridiculous strawman and I have stated that it is not my opinion multiple times. Russia is a hellhole in many ways and its record on queer rights is one of them.
And go where? Russia?
Maybe you can disband NATO, and they won't have to leave, you can just bring Russia here instead.
And while Putin is carting them off to camps, they can say, "well at least it's not the GOP."
No, they don't want to go to Russia. And you knew that, you're just being annoying and obstinate.
Your accuse us of obsession over Russia but you're clearly obsessively paranoid about them if you think NATO disbandment would lead to Russia conquering the United States.
Then go where?
If they want to get the fuck out of the US, where do they want to go and why aren't they going there?
who has Russia nuked
Putin has threatened to use nukes as recently as this year.
Are you defending a dictator who threatens to start a nuclear holocaust?
My favorite part is saying that Russia exports "Nuclear terrorism" when saying that Russia is worse than... the only country that has dropped a nuclear bomb.
Yeah, that really was the cherry on top of the
Sunday.
You ignorant gnome. We hate Russsia more than you. Russia is the liberal democratic nation built by the US from the corpse of our comunist forebears. I'd ask if you ever read a history book but your Midwest tag proves the only ones you got were written by Haliburton so it isn't your fault you are the way you are. If I wver visit your region I must try to trap you I in a circle of salt and force you to actually read some theory.
Also, just do a quick browse of midwest.social vs hexbear. Your instance acts and talks like 4chan or the_donald.
Is it an actual book or is it wojak spam, because I love reading but your wojak spam is insufferable.
We are a quarrelsome bunch. We do not deny this.
Actual books
Russia is not liberal or democratic. It is a corrupt capitalist oligarchy/dictatorship with limited human rights. It was built by the US from the corpse of the USSR.
Y'all claim to hate Russia but also spend a suspicious amount of time defending it.
It is exactly as liberal and democratic as america.
Absolutely not. America is more liberal and democratic, even if marginally. America has not had a single dictator in power for 2 decades and it's actually fairly okay to be gay in America.
I would 1000% rather live in the US than live in Russia.
The US has more money. There are for sure places where there that is not true. As history progresses we will see which way America grows. I have no reason to expect it will become anything other than more russsia like as conditions intensify.
Literally just existing, chilling, sprinkling unexploded cluster bombs throughout the country side for Ukrainian children to step on for generations to come, vibing.
dog how can you be this clueless about NATO and still have such a strong opinion lmao
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1052756
the idea of NATO "just existing" is a straight up rejection of history
HOLLLLLYYYY FUCCCKKKIIIINNNNGGG SHIIIIIIIITTTTTT
We also use Hillary Clinton and Biden memes, doesn't mean we support them lmao.
Ever heard of this thing called "irony"? Might be worth checking out
Because Russia is the same as America in pretty much every way. So it is fascist infighting. Trump is also the same as pretty much the same as every other president. Liberals just hate him for idiosyncratic reasons. So it is funny
Russia is America's every bad quality dialed up to 12 on steroids. Russia actually manages to make America look good, that's just what a steaming pile of garbage Russia is. The bar is so low even America can get over it.
NATO - starts wars and keeps the meat grinder rolling all in the furtherance of capitalist dogma - you sleep
Russia - literally just exists - you wake
NATO’s #1 export is war and that's why NATO is hated around the world. Y'all just give people more reason to hate NATO.
Russia starting a war with 350,000 casualties and threatening to nuke the West is not literally just existing. If Russia wanted to literally just exist, they never would have literally invaded another country while lying about "training exercises".
You're pro-Russian terrorism, it's not a good look.
NATO encircled a world power and for the last couple decades have worked to instigate a war that has led to the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people on the gamble that Russia would fall and allow the west to loot the country, exactly as they plan to loot a war torn Ukraine. For capitalism.
You’re pro-NATO terrorism, it’s not a good look.
That's pure speculation.
You literally have to create a fantasy about NATO doing something in the future to justify Russia actually doing evil things right now.
Being pro imaginary terrorism is way better than being pro real terrorism.
NATO started this war by intentionally instigating Russia into conflict, using Ukraine as a proxy. Multiple times NATO have stood in the way of peace talks. That’s terrorism.
Russia, defending ethnically Russian peoples against a state government hostile to their continued existence, and guarding against being encircled by NATO is not terrorism it’s kindergarten level geopolitics
Calling Ukrainians "ethically Russian" is a real fascist type of perspective.
Murdering Ukrainians and caring it "defending them" is just plan psychopathic.
The fuck are you talking about?
Admit it, you just hate Russia because the name "Joey Steel" burns your fae lips to say.
In case you're unaware, the "ethnically Russian" people being mentioned in the previous comment aren't Ukraine as a whole but the citizens of the Donbas who have been the victims of an ongoing genocide by Ukraine since ~2014.
This is true. Maybe nato has a history of behavior we could investigate to see what their likely actions are going forward... Yeah, turns out it is a literal nazi army created to do war crimes to keep capitlaism strong.
Literally makes no sense because capitalism would still be just as strong without NATO.