It has become clear that some of you need this.

First wave feminism:

  • Focused on combating legally explicit oppression (mostly the right to vote).

  • Succeeded in all their goals.

  • Wish they had more goals lol.

Second wave feminism:

  • Rekindled struggle for women's equality. This part is cool, enjoy it, because it's all downhill from here.

  • New theoretical basis where women are the keepers of the ineffable moon spirit or some shit. (Okay fine, it's more nuanced than this, but not in a way worth giving a damn about.)

  • Only cares about white women.

  • Yes it's more nuanced than "ineffable moon spirit," but not in a way worth giving a damn about.

  • We needed third wave feminism for a reason. Anybody who still identifies with second wave feminism either really likes ineffable moon spirits or is willing to put up with them so they can be a TERF.

Third wave feminism:

  • Gendered oppression is just one of a number of different, sometimes overlapping, kinds of oppression in our society (also race, sexual orientation, gender expression, ability, etc). The loosely overlapping collection of kinds of oppression is called the kyriarchy.

  • The ranking of people within the kyriarchy is intentionally loose. Who has less rights between a white trans woman and a black man with Asperger's? The answer will be determined on the fly, in whatever way is most convenient for people in power, in that moment, for that case.

  • People facing overlapping kinds of oppression face different oppression than just the sum of the parts. The oppression that a black trans woman faces is different than the sum of the oppression a black person, trans person, and woman face. The best way to understand oppression is to look the complete intersection separately. This is called intersectionality.

  • The best way to understand an intersection is to ask people who live in it. This does not mean leaving them to their own devices sans support, it means fucking ask.

  • We will not win liberation for women until we win it for black women, trans women, disabled women, lesbians, and every other intersection with women. We will not win liberation for black people until we win it for black women, black trans people, disabled black people, gay black people, yadda yadda yadda and so forth for every other group.

Marxist feminism:

  • Is still third wave feminism, all aspects of that apply.

  • Let's add class as an axis of oppression within the kyriarchy.

  • Hot damn, that turned out to be a really useful addition.

  • Despite the name, not all Marxist Feminists understand class in the Marxist sense. A lot of the time they end up just meaning wealth rather than relation to the means of production. Wealth actually ends up being a useful thing to add to intersectionality too though, so I'd recommend adding both wealth and class (this time in the Marxist sense). *slaps roof of kyriarchy* this bad boy can fit so many axes of oppression in it

  • Class ends up being the most important axis of oppression. However, the other ones still matter. Marxist feminists is prone to over-simplifying things and pretending that only class matters. This is called class reductionism, and it makes you a bad feminist. It also makes you a bad organizer.

  • Revisiting intersectionality with class: The oppression that a black transwoman worker is different than just the sum of the oppression a black person, trans person, woman, and worker face. (Aside: holy shit are trans people illustrative here; the difference in experience between a wealthy trans person and a poor one is stark as fuck.)

  • We will not win liberation for the workers until we win it for black workers, trans workers, disabled workers, lesbian workers, female workers, and every other intersection with workers.

  • Mardoniush [she/her]
    ·
    4 years ago

    I'd like to point out that while the mainstream first/second wave feminists were pretty bougie, the Marxist current in feminism was there at the start in the Socialist movement, and Radical class based approaches go right back to the Cool and Awesome Mary Wollstonecraft and her Vindication of the Rights of Women in 1792.

    • Owl [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      4 years ago

      I wasn't too worried about missing out on details, because this community is full of cool and well-read people like you.

    • Orannis62 [ze/hir]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Fun historical fact, Mary Wollstonecraft was also the mother of Mary Shelley, the author of Frankenstein

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Vindication of the Rights of Women is so frustrating because you can tell she wants to just beat those assholes to death with a cricket bat but she has to put on this whole high femme performance of "The Gentler Sex" to basically baby-talk The Men so they actually listen to her.

    • sailorfish [she/her]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      I'm relatively sure second wave also tried to normalise the pill, push for abortion rights, make people actually aware of the concept of sexual harassment, etc. 60/70s feminism did some cool stuff, though it was still white-centric. Anybody claiming to identify with a 60 year old feminist wave in 2020 is obviously sus tho, which is (part of) why they get such a bad rap I think

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        It's unironically "No more 2nd wave feminism, the world has progressed beyond the need for 2nd wave feminism". It was very radical for it's time, despite flaws that both are and were glaring and obvious, but we are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past that shit and, like, maybe there are some chill 2nd wave people somewhere but all the ones I've met were 1.) TERFS 2.) whorephobic and 3.) extremely down on people enjoying and exploring non-traditional P in V sex.

    • Owl [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      4 years ago

      This is a good addition.

      I also noticed I somehow skipped over critical theory. Whoops.

  • a_jug_of_marx_piss [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Thanks for the good post.

    It's really funny how chuds characterise the waves of feminism, most of it is just reflecting the flaws of second wave on the third wave.

    • PorkrollPosadist [he/him, they/them]
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      4 years ago

      I don't think chuds conceive any of the nuance even on that level. They just think some stupid shit like "well if feminism is so good why did it take three tries? lmao got'em" However, there are other reactionary elements which certainly do, and will cherrypick history to paint whatever picture they are trying to portray.

      • Orannis62 [ze/hir]
        ·
        4 years ago

        There definitely are some chuds who specifically call out the waves and call the Third Wave bad and then the Second Wave good (while also ascribing the bad aspects of the Second to the Third). They just do that more out of a reflexive desire to say anything that any feminists are currently doing is bad than for any actual understanding of what they do and what they've done

    • Owl [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      4 years ago

      Thanks for posting a source instead of asking me for one. I'm always self-conscious about lacking a bibliography.

    • sonartaxlaw [undecided,he/him]
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      4 years ago

      Yeah honestly I never got the impression that 2nd wave was particularly spiritual if for no other reason than white women spirituality tends to be extremely shallow and fragile.

    • Marius [she/her]
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      4 years ago

      Did you learn anything you didn’t know already? Or do you have a theoretical audience in mind?

      • LaBellaLotta [any]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I didn’t know the term kyriarchy and I didn’t really understand what a comprehensive and nuanced view of overall oppression was presented in third wave feminism but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised because the chuds hate it.

  • dolphinhuffer [comrade/them]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Let’s add class as an axis of oppression within the kyriarchy.

    Hot damn, that turned out to be a really useful addition.

    • Owl [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      4 years ago

      Oh no! That sounds super embarrassing.

  • LaBellaLotta [any]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Still a good ass post. Used the notion of the Kyriarchy on my lib family the other day to explain why class politics must come before identity politics but that does not mean that identity politics aren’t or important or don’t matter and aren’t central to the struggle against oppression and patriarchy.