call me transphobic or a boomer or whatever but I dont really see myself referring to anyone as a deer regardless of their want. I imagine I would more likely just not refer to them at all.
that is...transphobic to misgender someone because you don't see their neo-pronoun as valid. they/them is a neopronoun in the scope of things. at one point in english she/her was a neopronoun. you cant just be the arbiter of pronouns.
I'm going to jump off a bridge. We are never going to achieve liberation, the imperial core will forever be self-obsessed people that care about personal validation over people's liberation and we will be talking about fucking deer pronouns until the last drop of potable water evaporates or the last two "leftists" burn to death from climate disaster.
My problem is this is the western left. This is what we are. If we continue this way we will be rounded up and fucking shot and the immense suffering in the world will chug along until the last sucker gasps their last breath of air. This is an exercise in privilege that would make any self-respecting global south Communist execute every one of us on sight, myself included.
Calling Chapotistas the "western left" is perhaps too high a praise. What percentage of people here actually organize or act on their ideology?
No one using this website will be rounded up and shot because no one on this website is of political or economic importance. The most obvious leftward party in the United States is... the DSA. What does that tell you?
I mean it's not far off. There is a reason that regular people from marginalized communities roll their eyes at us. I can't fathom the reaction that any of the poor black folks or immigrants I work with on the regular seeing this shit. If people want to talk about alienating potential comrades, I think that's the direction I'd take the conversation.
Why do neopronouns come before Imperialism and Capitalism? Is Imperialism not the primary contradiction in the world rn? I'm sorry but I'm a Marxist, my understanding of the world and the struggles we face is informed by dialectics. The order of priorities has been accepted for decades by Marxists that actually fight for liberation. If we have to wait for everyone to be comfortable using deer pronouns before we achieve liberation for the exploited masses we might as well kill ourselves now because it's never going to happen.
Gatekeeping the left over shit like neopronouns is the biggest gift to reactionaries we could give them.
The vast majority of people are not ever going to be comfortable with deer pronouns and that's just a fact. What you're saying is that we must box these people out until they're sufficiently compliant with radical social values held by a fraction of a fraction of a percent of people in the world.
Like I don't care. I will call you a deer if it makes you happy. But I'm not everyone, and the struggles for Liberation needs mass support. Not just locally or domestically but globally. People are saying "if you don't use neopronouns you're not a leftist" and all I can think is "would a devout muslim refugee whose family was slaughtered by US-funded wahhabists be comfortable using neopronouns, and would we box them out of the struggle of they weren't"
STFU. Are you stupid on purpose? TALKING ABOUT PRONOUNS is not what is stopping "liberation". You are creating the problem by not using people's pronouns- you literally admit to not seeing yourself using people's pronouns. JUST USE PEOPLES PRONOUNS. you don't need to understand neo-pronouns to respect them. and FYI not being misgendered isnt about "personal validation" it is a serious and harmful action to misgender someone.
I don't misgender people, but you're wrong, it is about personal validation. Like you're literally validating someone's personal gender identity by calling them correct pronouns. Misgendering someone is about as serious and harmful as calling someone a fat fuck, it's mean and can probably do real emotional damage, but it's not the same as cops executing black men for reaching in their pocket or the military drone striking a hospital.
Please just log off and reflect or something. Something does not need to kill you to be important. Not having your correct pronoun used may not bomb or shoot you but it does serious mental harm- being invalidated isolates you and harms you. Affirmation at no cost to you is harmless. Why would it be harmful for you to just use pronouns as people indicate they want you to. Even if you don't get it.
First of all, I literally started that comment with "I don't misgender people" so idk why people keep saying "just use the pronouns". I do.
Second, my problem is that western leftists care way more about the "serious mental harm" of people in the global north over the absolute physical slaughter of people in the global south, or even people in marginalized communities in the global north. The social gatekeeping is an exercise in extreme privilege that is severely fucking grim.
Deer pronouns are doe/deer, and doe has used them for a long time.
It's pretty simple in this case for the most part, doe/deer can be largely used as she/her would. If you'd otherwise say she say doe, if you'd say her use deer.
I genuinely dont mean this in any offensive way, but I had no idea what your first sentence was even supposed to mean until I realized you were talking about a person after 3 or 4 re-reads and I was literally the person to ask you for an example.
It kind of defeats the purpose of a pronoun if nobody realizes it is even referring to a person when it is used. I am arguing from a point of practicality whereas your opinion is very clearly emotionally charged considering this is your friends preferred pronouns which is understandable.
I feel that this specific discussion has only minor relevance to transgenderism overall, and is a bit more complex than that.
if you say so.
It seems weird to me that when asking for a means of referring to a person comrade is considered bad faith in that regard...
dunno about the comrade thing but doe/deer is the neopronouns used by one of our comrades on here, and should be treated with respect o7
edit: why downvote this comment, one which conveys only information and solidarity for a comrade? Wtf y'all
call me transphobic or a boomer or whatever but I dont really see myself referring to anyone as a deer regardless of their want. I imagine I would more likely just not refer to them at all.
that is...transphobic to misgender someone because you don't see their neo-pronoun as valid. they/them is a neopronoun in the scope of things. at one point in english she/her was a neopronoun. you cant just be the arbiter of pronouns.
I'm going to jump off a bridge. We are never going to achieve liberation, the imperial core will forever be self-obsessed people that care about personal validation over people's liberation and we will be talking about fucking deer pronouns until the last drop of potable water evaporates or the last two "leftists" burn to death from climate disaster.
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My problem is this is the western left. This is what we are. If we continue this way we will be rounded up and fucking shot and the immense suffering in the world will chug along until the last sucker gasps their last breath of air. This is an exercise in privilege that would make any self-respecting global south Communist execute every one of us on sight, myself included.
Calling Chapotistas the "western left" is perhaps too high a praise. What percentage of people here actually organize or act on their ideology?
No one using this website will be rounded up and shot because no one on this website is of political or economic importance. The most obvious leftward party in the United States is... the DSA. What does that tell you?
My point stands, bridges are looking pretty tempting
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I mean it's not far off. There is a reason that regular people from marginalized communities roll their eyes at us. I can't fathom the reaction that any of the poor black folks or immigrants I work with on the regular seeing this shit. If people want to talk about alienating potential comrades, I think that's the direction I'd take the conversation.
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Why do neopronouns come before Imperialism and Capitalism? Is Imperialism not the primary contradiction in the world rn? I'm sorry but I'm a Marxist, my understanding of the world and the struggles we face is informed by dialectics. The order of priorities has been accepted for decades by Marxists that actually fight for liberation. If we have to wait for everyone to be comfortable using deer pronouns before we achieve liberation for the exploited masses we might as well kill ourselves now because it's never going to happen.
Gatekeeping the left over shit like neopronouns is the biggest gift to reactionaries we could give them.
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The vast majority of people are not ever going to be comfortable with deer pronouns and that's just a fact. What you're saying is that we must box these people out until they're sufficiently compliant with radical social values held by a fraction of a fraction of a percent of people in the world.
Like I don't care. I will call you a deer if it makes you happy. But I'm not everyone, and the struggles for Liberation needs mass support. Not just locally or domestically but globally. People are saying "if you don't use neopronouns you're not a leftist" and all I can think is "would a devout muslim refugee whose family was slaughtered by US-funded wahhabists be comfortable using neopronouns, and would we box them out of the struggle of they weren't"
STFU. Are you stupid on purpose? TALKING ABOUT PRONOUNS is not what is stopping "liberation". You are creating the problem by not using people's pronouns- you literally admit to not seeing yourself using people's pronouns. JUST USE PEOPLES PRONOUNS. you don't need to understand neo-pronouns to respect them. and FYI not being misgendered isnt about "personal validation" it is a serious and harmful action to misgender someone.
I don't misgender people, but you're wrong, it is about personal validation. Like you're literally validating someone's personal gender identity by calling them correct pronouns. Misgendering someone is about as serious and harmful as calling someone a fat fuck, it's mean and can probably do real emotional damage, but it's not the same as cops executing black men for reaching in their pocket or the military drone striking a hospital.
Please just log off and reflect or something. Something does not need to kill you to be important. Not having your correct pronoun used may not bomb or shoot you but it does serious mental harm- being invalidated isolates you and harms you. Affirmation at no cost to you is harmless. Why would it be harmful for you to just use pronouns as people indicate they want you to. Even if you don't get it.
First of all, I literally started that comment with "I don't misgender people" so idk why people keep saying "just use the pronouns". I do.
Second, my problem is that western leftists care way more about the "serious mental harm" of people in the global north over the absolute physical slaughter of people in the global south, or even people in marginalized communities in the global north. The social gatekeeping is an exercise in extreme privilege that is severely fucking grim.
I think you responded to the wrong person, this isn't the person who said they don't see themselves using people's pronouns
Sorry!! My bad I meant to @Bread_In_Baltimore who had that shit take. Literally typed too fast.
You did, its just that Bread and Lad are two different posters and I think you merged their shit takes into one super shit take
unless my boy whom I love @Bread_In_Baltimore also said he cant see himself using people's pronouns.
say it ain't so
I'm sorry, I'm fighting for my friend here and she for her comrade. Pardon me if I don't appreciate shitheads like this lad who invalidate deer.
OK, sure. Let's say I give you this one. Can you give me an example how I would use doe/deer as a pronoun to refer to a person.
Deer pronouns are doe/deer, and doe has used them for a long time.
It's pretty simple in this case for the most part, doe/deer can be largely used as she/her would. If you'd otherwise say she say doe, if you'd say her use deer.
I genuinely dont mean this in any offensive way, but I had no idea what your first sentence was even supposed to mean until I realized you were talking about a person after 3 or 4 re-reads and I was literally the person to ask you for an example.
It kind of defeats the purpose of a pronoun if nobody realizes it is even referring to a person when it is used. I am arguing from a point of practicality whereas your opinion is very clearly emotionally charged considering this is your friends preferred pronouns which is understandable.
I feel that this specific discussion has only minor relevance to transgenderism overall, and is a bit more complex than that.
Yeah fuck off with that :)