The people pushing it are wreckers that would rather burn down one of the most active leftists spaces on the internet than feel even the smallest iota of personal discomfort.
I think that's fine. You should not be pushed to publically use pronouns if you don't want to.
The comment I responded to said people pushing pronoun use are trying to burn down a leftist space because they don't want to experience discomfort (the discomfort being invalidated in their gender identity). You are talking about a separate issue.
I think the problem isn't that trans people are being misgendered (tho you can scroll down and find neo-pronouns being invalidated so that is a part of the issue) but that making selecting pronouns a "trans thing" is harmful and sets people up to be distinct and makes it not the norm. Users don't have to pick a pronoun. If they feel comfortable they should tho. I'm fine with people not picking a pronoun.
I don't think anyone is against pronouns to be available to users. This originally started because a group of users posted that not selecting a pronoun is transphobic. If you are arguing that pronoun use shouldn't be a "trans thing," I agree with you. But it was the original group that based their argument on assuming that all trans people have or want to select a pronoun and that if you don't, it's because you're transphobic.
There are trans posters in this thread that said they don't want to be forced into selecting a pronoun they like a blank default. So maybe the issue is some trans users assuming that their experience on chapo.chat is representative of all trans people. If it's cis users making this into an issue then idk what to say except that they're likely just wreckers
I understand that - I'm not going to condemn not using a pronoun as a transphobic action overall- I would call it garbage allyship if you can and just don't. If you struggle with gender identity I don't count that as a choice to not use a pronoun and respect that. Trans people actually count for a sizeable amount of people who don't want to display their pronouns and I stand with them on that. Basically- if you are cis or comfortable using public pronouns- use them- if you aren't you should not have to.
That is not what your original comment was about at all. You said the entire discourse was wreckers unwilling to face personal discomfort. The personal discomfort you want them to deal with is being misgendered or not having their pronouns used.
I think there's some level of misunderstanding here. I was specifically referring to the people behind the myriad posts today with the general message of "anyone who doesn't set their pronouns is a TERF/transphobe/piece of shit and needs to leave this website."
Everyone can and should be able to choose pronouns they're comfortable with, and expect other people to respect that. The people I'm referring to are the ones who would kick people out of this space for not wanting to label themselves with a specific gender identity just for posting.
No one should be kicked off for not wanting to use pronouns (which are gender signifiers, not gender identity.) If you choose not to set your pronouns despite not having a problem with gender identity whatsoever- the most common group of people who do this being cis men who just can't be bothered- what exactly is the motivation there and why should I respect it?
Yes, I understand. People want to have everyone set a pronoun. I think cis people should to normalize pronoun use. I also think we should not force anyone to box themselves into the use of a pronoun. The split right now is between people who think it's fine to leave it blank vs people who think someone who does not want to publically specify a pronoun should use "none". I think saying none is also a choice we should not force. I think a conversation is healthy and normal. You seem to think even the discussion is so polarizing it must be a purposeful wreck attempt. You also framed this as a matter of personal discomfort when that is super trivializing.
I was summarizing the stuggle sesh. My entire problem is with the framing of the original comment which makes the entire conversation seem driven by like purposefully negative actors. Acting as if TALKING about pronouns is going to collapse the user base of chapo or something.
The people pushing it are wreckers that would rather burn down one of the most active leftists spaces on the internet than feel even the smallest iota of personal discomfort.
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NORMALIZED OPPRESSION IS NOT PERSONAL DISCOMFORT. Stop expecting people to be happy or okay with being misgendered or having their pronouns not used.
Me not wanting my account to be gendered is normalized oppression how though
I think that's fine. You should not be pushed to publically use pronouns if you don't want to.
The comment I responded to said people pushing pronoun use are trying to burn down a leftist space because they don't want to experience discomfort (the discomfort being invalidated in their gender identity). You are talking about a separate issue.
The issue isn't that trans people are being misgendered though, since people can select their pronouns if they'd like to.
The original comment is that some users are having discomfort because other users aren't selecting a pronoun.
I think the problem isn't that trans people are being misgendered (tho you can scroll down and find neo-pronouns being invalidated so that is a part of the issue) but that making selecting pronouns a "trans thing" is harmful and sets people up to be distinct and makes it not the norm. Users don't have to pick a pronoun. If they feel comfortable they should tho. I'm fine with people not picking a pronoun.
I don't think anyone is against pronouns to be available to users. This originally started because a group of users posted that not selecting a pronoun is transphobic. If you are arguing that pronoun use shouldn't be a "trans thing," I agree with you. But it was the original group that based their argument on assuming that all trans people have or want to select a pronoun and that if you don't, it's because you're transphobic.
There are trans posters in this thread that said they don't want to be forced into selecting a pronoun they like a blank default. So maybe the issue is some trans users assuming that their experience on chapo.chat is representative of all trans people. If it's cis users making this into an issue then idk what to say except that they're likely just wreckers
I understand that - I'm not going to condemn not using a pronoun as a transphobic action overall- I would call it garbage allyship if you can and just don't. If you struggle with gender identity I don't count that as a choice to not use a pronoun and respect that. Trans people actually count for a sizeable amount of people who don't want to display their pronouns and I stand with them on that. Basically- if you are cis or comfortable using public pronouns- use them- if you aren't you should not have to.
So the only people that should be left without a pronoun are trans users? Doesn't that then make that into a trans thing?
How does one person not listing their pronouns cause another person to be misgendered, or stop them from having their pronouns used?
That is not what your original comment was about at all. You said the entire discourse was wreckers unwilling to face personal discomfort. The personal discomfort you want them to deal with is being misgendered or not having their pronouns used.
I think there's some level of misunderstanding here. I was specifically referring to the people behind the myriad posts today with the general message of "anyone who doesn't set their pronouns is a TERF/transphobe/piece of shit and needs to leave this website."
Everyone can and should be able to choose pronouns they're comfortable with, and expect other people to respect that. The people I'm referring to are the ones who would kick people out of this space for not wanting to label themselves with a specific gender identity just for posting.
No one should be kicked off for not wanting to use pronouns (which are gender signifiers, not gender identity.) If you choose not to set your pronouns despite not having a problem with gender identity whatsoever- the most common group of people who do this being cis men who just can't be bothered- what exactly is the motivation there and why should I respect it?
Nobody is being misgendered though. Are you sure you understand what this stuggle sesh is about?
Yes, I understand. People want to have everyone set a pronoun. I think cis people should to normalize pronoun use. I also think we should not force anyone to box themselves into the use of a pronoun. The split right now is between people who think it's fine to leave it blank vs people who think someone who does not want to publically specify a pronoun should use "none". I think saying none is also a choice we should not force. I think a conversation is healthy and normal. You seem to think even the discussion is so polarizing it must be a purposeful wreck attempt. You also framed this as a matter of personal discomfort when that is super trivializing.
Right. Which is not the same thing as misgendering users, which is what you've been posting about
I was summarizing the stuggle sesh. My entire problem is with the framing of the original comment which makes the entire conversation seem driven by like purposefully negative actors. Acting as if TALKING about pronouns is going to collapse the user base of chapo or something.
Well I'm not the op that you originally commented to so lol