That was a joke as I couldn't believe the reply wasn't one.
Show me the huge swath of accounts that were unjustly banned and didn't return, I know of a handful that did talk to someone and it got sorted out. I know of a significant amount of trans accounts that left the site because of the issues hence my initial comment poking fun at the cissexism that is preventing people from taking the easy action to not be shitty to comrades.
It isn't a site based algorithm banning anyone who downvotes 3 times there are people looking into the downvoting history and comments to establish a harmful pattern.
The problem comes from what constitutes a pattern. Mods have already said that they can't looking up a users vote history, they just look at a post and record the upvoters/downvoters.
So if someone downvotes multiple shitty trans-related posts and then upvoters multiple good trans-related posts, they'd still get flagged as a transphobe, some mods are just looking at individual posts.
The mods are working together compiling the data and then examining the profiles of those in question as well as previous warnings. It isnt a haphazard or automated process, and it's based in lessening a quantifiable harm done to people and solidarity.
As someone who frequently experiences harassment based on being visibly trans I would appretiate a space free from stupididpol types to discuss leftist theory and ideas.
I've been involved in many in person organizations dedicated to the embetterment of life for trans people but it is more important to work on reconciling this in a movement that would have the means to improve everyone's lives.
This are spitball numbers but if 25 chapo accounts of trans people left this month due to the intentional downvoting and 5 innocent accounts got banned during the purge and 11 of those previous trans accounts return that's a net benefit not to mention the show of solidarity to the rest of the trans people here.
Finally as posted elsewhere trans people arent a political monolith plenty have internalized cisexism that manifests in wanting to make things easier for cis people as to not be a burden rather than criticizing the system that causes trans people to be constantly accommodating.
It's not neoliberal vapid actions to demand that people make an effort to be considerate.
if 25 chapo accounts of trans people left this month due to the intentional downvoting and 5 innocent accounts got banned during the purge and 11 of those previous trans accounts return that’s a net benefit
Yea I just don't see this as a good thing. There's got to be better ways to deal with the problem then an action that knowingly bans innocent accounts
If the issue is that trans users are seeing the number of downvotes trans-positives posts receive and that makes them feel unwelcome, then just remove the icon that shows the number of downvotes a post received. Still allow downvotes, but make it like reddit where you only see the net voting. There's any number of reasons why someone might downvote a post and I understand that trans users might see the downvotes and think it's targetted because of trans reasons. This fixes the immediate issue at hand. Obviously there is some deeper community building that should go on on making the community welcoming, but that kind of thing isn't something that can be solved with new rules and mods.
Yea that's a good idea, from some I've talked to it is mass downvoting not long after the post is made so you make a trans positive post and check an hour later to see it's at 1 that feels shitty and confusing. You are right that more needs to be done for community building.
Your suggestions are things that iirc need back end programming which takes time, during which the concerted effort to intentionally downvote trans posts would continue resulting in sustained negativity for some trans users.
And it isnt some imagined slight by trans folks it has been verified there are bad actors intentionally pushing stupididpol.
Again to me this seems like placing the freeze peach of a small set of users upset about not being able to downvote with abandon above the wellbeing of trans people hence me calling it cissexism as it is centering the desires of cis people at the extend of trans people.
And it isnt some imagined slight by trans folks it has been verified there are bad actors intentionally pushing stupididpol.
Absolutely true. But mods need to focus on weeding out brigadiers. Not blanket banning users based on downvoting.
And there needs to be room for pushback when vocal trans users call any disagreement transphobic. That harms the community too.
For example, when there was the debate about requiring pronouns for all users, I was opposed to it. Not because I have reactionary opinions on pronoun usage, but because this is an anonymous forum and it felt weird to constantly reinforce the importance of IRL gender when digital accounts are inherently genderless - and nobody refers to each other in the third person anyway. It felt as strange as putting a label for your race next to your username.
Too some people, that probably came off as transphobic rather than what, from my standpoint, is something closer to the abolition of gender.
Yeah good faith is difficult to discern in an online space and with bad faith comes the terf dogwhistles that can look similar. The conflating of race and gender and abolition of gender are both such things. Idk I feel like I keep going back to the same place better to ask forgiveness for banning innocents than permission to weed out terf/stupididpol bad faith actors.
One big issue is that accepting that you will fuck over some innocent users with aggressive bans doesn't just drive away those that get caught up in it. It drives others away that know those people as good posters.
You can have a perfectly safe space for trans but it will only have 200 users and even then it'll only last for a few weeks before the community fractures over some issue.
Have you been on a trans-focused discord server? It's a shitshow.
I have and I'll assume you are stating that discord as a medium is drama prone rather than the misogynistic implication that trans focused servers are shitshows.
Again if they are committed to building solidarity they will have grace for the admins who mistakenly ban in pursuit of greater good, imo
Again, I've already stated that the immediate issue at hand can be solved with a change to the site UI. Banning innocent users isn't necessary, but its feeling like some mods and users want to do it anyway just to prove a point
Again as far as I know those are back end changes that take time and in the meantime LGBT users are leaving because of the inaction. It's a rock and a hard place but as privileged comrades the cis-het need to accept an inconvenience in order to lift up LGBT comrades.
It's what i mean by the emotional and mental effort. So rather than trans people feeling horrid at what is occurring a cis person needs to spend a bit of extra attention making sure they dont accidentally downvote or at worst message a mod on an easy to make new account, "hey i got banned but dont think I've downvoted trans stuff, what's up?" Bam it gets sorted, so I defer to this issue being one based in cisexism
Honestly I'm logging off for a while. This site used to be a decent place to fuck off during breaks at work and stuff. Users now constantly assume bad faith. Constant fights. It's getting more and more insular. It's been getting worse over the past several months.
I hope the devs can fix the UI, but it honestly seems like some mods and users want to maintain the problem so they can fester in the drama.
Why not just post to a trans only forum then?
That was a joke as I couldn't believe the reply wasn't one.
Show me the huge swath of accounts that were unjustly banned and didn't return, I know of a handful that did talk to someone and it got sorted out. I know of a significant amount of trans accounts that left the site because of the issues hence my initial comment poking fun at the cissexism that is preventing people from taking the easy action to not be shitty to comrades.
It isn't a site based algorithm banning anyone who downvotes 3 times there are people looking into the downvoting history and comments to establish a harmful pattern.
So again what's the problem?
The problem comes from what constitutes a pattern. Mods have already said that they can't looking up a users vote history, they just look at a post and record the upvoters/downvoters.
So if someone downvotes multiple shitty trans-related posts and then upvoters multiple good trans-related posts, they'd still get flagged as a transphobe, some mods are just looking at individual posts.
The mods are working together compiling the data and then examining the profiles of those in question as well as previous warnings. It isnt a haphazard or automated process, and it's based in lessening a quantifiable harm done to people and solidarity.
As someone who frequently experiences harassment based on being visibly trans I would appretiate a space free from stupididpol types to discuss leftist theory and ideas.
I've been involved in many in person organizations dedicated to the embetterment of life for trans people but it is more important to work on reconciling this in a movement that would have the means to improve everyone's lives.
This are spitball numbers but if 25 chapo accounts of trans people left this month due to the intentional downvoting and 5 innocent accounts got banned during the purge and 11 of those previous trans accounts return that's a net benefit not to mention the show of solidarity to the rest of the trans people here.
Finally as posted elsewhere trans people arent a political monolith plenty have internalized cisexism that manifests in wanting to make things easier for cis people as to not be a burden rather than criticizing the system that causes trans people to be constantly accommodating.
It's not neoliberal vapid actions to demand that people make an effort to be considerate.
Yea I just don't see this as a good thing. There's got to be better ways to deal with the problem then an action that knowingly bans innocent accounts
Yea if you have an idea I'm sure it would be considered. It's a rock and a hard place
If the issue is that trans users are seeing the number of downvotes trans-positives posts receive and that makes them feel unwelcome, then just remove the icon that shows the number of downvotes a post received. Still allow downvotes, but make it like reddit where you only see the net voting. There's any number of reasons why someone might downvote a post and I understand that trans users might see the downvotes and think it's targetted because of trans reasons. This fixes the immediate issue at hand. Obviously there is some deeper community building that should go on on making the community welcoming, but that kind of thing isn't something that can be solved with new rules and mods.
Yea that's a good idea, from some I've talked to it is mass downvoting not long after the post is made so you make a trans positive post and check an hour later to see it's at 1 that feels shitty and confusing. You are right that more needs to be done for community building.
Your suggestions are things that iirc need back end programming which takes time, during which the concerted effort to intentionally downvote trans posts would continue resulting in sustained negativity for some trans users.
And it isnt some imagined slight by trans folks it has been verified there are bad actors intentionally pushing stupididpol.
Again to me this seems like placing the freeze peach of a small set of users upset about not being able to downvote with abandon above the wellbeing of trans people hence me calling it cissexism as it is centering the desires of cis people at the extend of trans people.
Absolutely true. But mods need to focus on weeding out brigadiers. Not blanket banning users based on downvoting.
And there needs to be room for pushback when vocal trans users call any disagreement transphobic. That harms the community too.
For example, when there was the debate about requiring pronouns for all users, I was opposed to it. Not because I have reactionary opinions on pronoun usage, but because this is an anonymous forum and it felt weird to constantly reinforce the importance of IRL gender when digital accounts are inherently genderless - and nobody refers to each other in the third person anyway. It felt as strange as putting a label for your race next to your username.
Too some people, that probably came off as transphobic rather than what, from my standpoint, is something closer to the abolition of gender.
Yeah good faith is difficult to discern in an online space and with bad faith comes the terf dogwhistles that can look similar. The conflating of race and gender and abolition of gender are both such things. Idk I feel like I keep going back to the same place better to ask forgiveness for banning innocents than permission to weed out terf/stupididpol bad faith actors.
One big issue is that accepting that you will fuck over some innocent users with aggressive bans doesn't just drive away those that get caught up in it. It drives others away that know those people as good posters.
You can have a perfectly safe space for trans but it will only have 200 users and even then it'll only last for a few weeks before the community fractures over some issue.
Have you been on a trans-focused discord server? It's a shitshow.
I have and I'll assume you are stating that discord as a medium is drama prone rather than the misogynistic implication that trans focused servers are shitshows.
Again if they are committed to building solidarity they will have grace for the admins who mistakenly ban in pursuit of greater good, imo
Again, I've already stated that the immediate issue at hand can be solved with a change to the site UI. Banning innocent users isn't necessary, but its feeling like some mods and users want to do it anyway just to prove a point
Again as far as I know those are back end changes that take time and in the meantime LGBT users are leaving because of the inaction. It's a rock and a hard place but as privileged comrades the cis-het need to accept an inconvenience in order to lift up LGBT comrades.
It's what i mean by the emotional and mental effort. So rather than trans people feeling horrid at what is occurring a cis person needs to spend a bit of extra attention making sure they dont accidentally downvote or at worst message a mod on an easy to make new account, "hey i got banned but dont think I've downvoted trans stuff, what's up?" Bam it gets sorted, so I defer to this issue being one based in cisexism
Honestly I'm logging off for a while. This site used to be a decent place to fuck off during breaks at work and stuff. Users now constantly assume bad faith. Constant fights. It's getting more and more insular. It's been getting worse over the past several months.
I hope the devs can fix the UI, but it honestly seems like some mods and users want to maintain the problem so they can fester in the drama.
:fidel-salute-big:
:chavez-salute: