Won't lie. We're almost at BBQ season and I'm going to be smoking up all kinds of goodness on the pit that'll make yo mouth water. I'll post pics but if it's too offensive I'll just keep the food pr0n to myself.
No, vegans and vegetarians see meat everyday. It's only the most online who throw a fit if they so much as see meat. If we want to become a parody of ourselves, we should absolutely make this a content warning. Is this bait? The wreckers literally tried this tactic already.
My take as well. I'm vegan but I won't be shocked at seeing a steak - I've seen them basically all my life, and even ate them before I became vegan. And while I consider eating meat immoral (for environmental and animal welfare reasons), I also won't berate someone for doing it, especially when they're in a culture where it's basically the norm.
I also won’t berate someone for doing it, especially when they’re in a culture where it’s basically the norm.
Why won't you berate g*mers and r*dditors?
My wife
iseats vegan cuisine and has been eating with me Mr. Omnivore at most meals for going on 25 years.Dietary choices don't define people.
Not everyone who eats vegan food lives a Western vegan lifestyle.
My wife was raised Buddhist, and she has no problems with wearing leather, but she won't touch food made out of animals.
That is the same stance that the monks take at the temple she goes to.
No I'm pretty sure if your wife buys leather she isn't a vegan.
It isn't a sliding scale its a binary thing
I didn't say she was vegan. She just eats vegan style cuisine.
She doesn't eat dal or much asian tofu dishes. She eats the vegan-branded option for burritos, burgers, etc. Veganism isn't just a lifestyle or ideology, it is its own cuisine.
I don't define them for my wife.
She tells me she eats vegan food -- but doesn't consider herself vegan -- and I say she eats vegan food.
She treats it like a cuisine. She grew up eating pork and fish but her dad died of a heart attack very young which shocked her into choosing vegan food minus the lifestyle.
I guess vegan food I would consider the westernized style of cooking dishes which normally would have meat in them. She doesn't eat ethically plant-based diets like certain Asian cuisines. She is like 50% made of Boca burgers and fake cheese.
when it isn’t necessary.
That’s interesting, are there examples for that you can think of? Genuinely curious.
I'm not a wrecker (which is exactly what a wrecker would say!). I know I'm half fucking around but I am just asking a question. I remember a while back some people were adamant about not posting meat and struggle sesh's ensued. If I start posting BBQ and whatnot I just don't want to piss off the community.
No, content warnings are for protecting people from reexperiencing trauma, not for bitching about a thing.
Every vegan has seen like, fuckloads of meat and will see it constantly in day to day life.
How can you call yourself a leftist, yet support factory farming, where billions of sentient beings are tortured to death?
Doesn't that strike you as a contradiction?
Consuming animal products doesn't mean I support factory farming anymore than buying a phone means supporting rare earth mineral mining practices.
An individual consumer choice won't even put a dent into the practices of business. There's large capital invested into farms, slaughter houses, etc. Even if the demand for meat products dropped a bit, the price would also drop and demand would pick back up as consumption would be made up by thise who do consume meat consuming even more of it.
Veganism as an individual consumer choice under an moralist framework is super lib
Is there anything that you don't do, because you believe its wrong to do that thing?
Honestly, that excuse reads like the stupidpol version of the prisoner's dilemma or something. Surreal.
many people call themselves leftist but are racist, transphobic, classist, homophobic, sexist, capitalists, assholes etc. nobody seems to really bat an eye then.
this doesnt diminish being against factory farming but its weird when this moralistic argument gets pulled with such pearl clutching and gasping that its as if other oppression doesnt exist. Or as if we don’t live in a primarily meat eating non vegan context, as if some people have the money or option of choice in their neighborhoods. As if people don’t come from specific POC or regional cultural contexts that prioritizes meat.
i wish people would stop being racist to me but im not needlessly evangelizing others because its annoying and sanctimonious. trust me, we all have experience caring so much about a super fucked up morally reprehensible issue that it's often on our minds.....the pushy vegan stereotype exists for a reason and it probably has to deal with your accusation of someone supporting factory farming when they simply said "no" in response to being encouraged to go vegan.
people acting like this is exactly why i dont support the CW for meat; there are other people in the world other than yourself and there are things with equally high stakes, if not more that we comparatively don’t grind people down with in normal conversation. Normal zealots of equal causes don’t act like this and often veganism is talked about with this weird moralistic judge mental rhetoric that makes people not like you. The CW feels like an extension of that.
The last thing I would ever want to be is annoying or sanctimonious, thanks for the advice. Better to do nothing that might upset someone.
I am not talking about how people are leftist but are still bigots on this specific site, i'm, talking about leftists in general often making a practice of calling themselves leftist while being a bigot towards another marginalized group.
Chapo as a site is way more advanced in terms of leftists being aware of bigotry compared to other internet and real life places.
But regardless, in the left community (not just chapo.chat) I see problematic faves get hailed for their "broken clock is right a day" takes while still being absolute bigots (theyre mean to everyone because theyre assholes but their main targets seem to be black people and/or trans people) to name a few of the problematic faves who are entertained despite routinely being transphobic/racist : the chapo hosts, particularly amber , glenn greenwald ---who although this sub doesnt like him, is very much still considered a left voice some people weirdly lie down their generally anti bigotry to entertain - shuja haider, lee fang, the nagle woman, etc.
This isnt a point brought up to play oppression olympics, although I will say that a hierarchy of being directly effected by marginalization and how that informs the way you engage with others is at play here.
This point is specifically a response to the whole pearl clutching of "HOW COULD YOU CALL YOURSELF A LEFTISTTTTTTTT" when it's like, "I dont know, but everyone since the beginning of time has called themselves progressive while being a bigot to marginalized people and causes so.....why are you acting precious and surprised, as if your new to the idea that your pet cause will be ignored by others. at least it's not your own identity that's being ignored but alas".it's up there with the white girl who cries in 2020 over racism being a thing because "I never knew it was THAAAATTT bad". It's day late dollar short behavior where the shock of someone learing about the big bad world gets needlessly carried over into all of their interactions even though theyre usually talking to people who have been known whats going on.
I understand how most activists are considered trouble makers by those aligned against their interest but also by normies.. I have done tenant organizing work for the last 10 years. I believe that housing is a human right and nobody else (im talking about lay people not leftists) seems to agree. It's very frustrating and per my job i've had to really raise my voice over the years. However as an organizer I also understand how to bring people to my side, how to socialize with people and outside of any political conversation, how to just be a person people want to continue to engage with. Activism is pushy by nature but being a wantonly pushy activist in my line of work is being a bad activist. We dont needlessly pop up behind people when theyre just thinking out loud, plowing them with assumptions and facts that even though are true, dont need to be spouted out every single time. It's an incredibly inauthentic and very very rude way to interact with someone.
Yesterday I did a know your rights training where some very poor small landlords were in the crowd. That doesnt mean they didnt deserve to know about benefits available to them, because we're all hurting during covid, and who am I --a person with a stable job, the ability to pay rent, someone who can be remote --to outwardly judge them for being landlords? Should I have just withheld the knowledge i wanted to share until they left the zoom call? Should I have used that time to berate them? Even though i've also been a victim of gentrification/horrible landlords/ eviction/ racism when renting? I've seen some white (transplant, gentrifier, college educated, wealthy) organizers do this sometimes to poc and poor small landlords. I saw a girl even quote Mao once when doing it and it was incredibly embarassing and harmful to our work.
I know vegans arent predomionately white, I know that veganism has been sold as being extra constly, extra privileged and extra white, regardless of whether or not that's true. My boyfriend is vegan! My friends are vegan! I brought sistah vegan to my college to speak! and it was great!
I brought up potential barriers to people being receptive to being vegan not because there arent solutions to them, but just to hammer the idea that people are in different places because of different reasons when it comes to being vegan/ thinking about consuming meat / factory farming shit etc. And that really sucks but it needs to be approached as something normal, to be expected, and something people will want to actually work with, rather than shouting "you support X worst thing ever"
What i'm calling out is the weird reactionary way that vegans tend to pop up behind someone spouting facts and even projecting aggressive judgements of people's behavior when theyre just simply thinking out loud.
Yes we all care about different types of bigotry, oppression, harm etc. but I've notice that this weird ass aggressive behavior only really happens with hyper online vegans and its rude. And It's very glaring because when you consider that activists of other types of oppression (oppression of which also has similarly horrific consequences as consuming animals) usually do no pull those weird ass aggressive tactics in normal conversation.
And yes, while veganism is very diverse, I will say that i've been a poor black queer woman my entire life. I was born into the oppression I face and have been facing it as long as I remember. Vegans as a whole are not similarly born into their cause, as the cause they are advocating for does not as directly effect their personal safety and well being. And yet, vegans are the ones who constantly do this weird aggro reply shit, using the passion and urgency of the movement as a justification, when there are movements that are just as urgent that don't do this.
Because of this it's hard to see the CW for meat be anything but an extension of this special snowflake "my cause is the best cause" behavior.
but yall can do you, just dont ban me if i accidentally forget to tag some food as CW because honestly that would be absolutely crazy for all the reasons i mentioned above ( i will make every effort to tag the CW for meat though because I dont feel the need to lord my specific quirks over others as this CW, which other vegans in the comments dont even want, would do)
I know this is a day late, but holy shit, can you post more? This is an incredible comment
This question was raised a while ago. There was some struggle session-ish back-and-forth, but this was in the days of downvotes, and the post got a lot of downvotes. If I remember correctly the general consensus was that CWs shouldn't be required for meat.
There's an entire food-centric comm, !vegan@hexbear.net, guaranteed to not have any meat. Perhaps a few motivated vegan comrades should take it upon themselves to cross-post posts of vegan food from here to c/vegan.
exactly, it's a way of living that seeks to abolish the oppression of animals, "eating plants" is a bit reductive
As long as it doesn't look like a corpse I'm not really bothered. At worst I'll just think it looks kinda gross. Appreciate the asking though!
It looks gross. Seared flesh is just not appetizing at an aesthetic level.
we dont CW police brutality (from what ive seen but maybe we do, but also it seems like we dont) but i guess we CW meat lol .....is this what portland is like
case in point: https://hexbear.net/post/83399 ; https://hexbear.net/post/5048
congrats on dismantling the white self absorbed racist vegan stereotype (this isnt directed towards OP ofc who was half joking)
guess the hierarchy goes:
gamers
pigs (CW)
black 9 year old girls pepper sprayed while handcuffed by cops as her family watches in horror
where in those posts is the police brutality? There's just links to articles and tiny non-graphic images. Videos and images of police brutality definitely need a CW
i thought the suggested CW would also include thread headlines and give a CW for the topics that the thread discusses, kinda like how people write "CW: Homophobia" even if there's not a homphobic image that needs to be protected // that seems to be how i've seen the content warnings on this site
also people have posted images from reddit threads showing racism / baised behavior towards other marginalized groups without content warnings
they also post images of derek chauvin and other murderers of blacks without CWs so
https://hexbear.net/post/35780
I'd say that image and text CW are different and apply differently. I'm sure you see the difference between racism (or in this case speciesm) and images of corpses. This site isn't always great about CWs, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best
okay image and text CW can be different and that makes sense.
but we're not talking about censoring only animal corpse images, we're talking about censoring any pictures of meat while not censoring images of chauvin / marginalizing screenshots , also
i just think that's weird
lets do our best but let's also keep the same energy towards all possibly triggering images
only animal corpse images, we’re talking about censoring any pictures of meat
it's the same picture.
Do you think images of cops need a CW?
i think images of murderers like chauvin should probably get one but hey thats just my opinion, and i dont feel the need to lord that over anyone else despite the fact that I am a black person who has been a victim of police violence
and while you think corspes and meat pictures might be the same, clearly other vegans in the comments dont
i think images of murderers like chauvin should probably get one but hey thats just my opinion
I'll bring it up in the modchat. Yeah vegans all have different experiences and opinions, I think adding a CW isn't much work, so even if a minority of people want/need it that should be enough
Is meat actually potentially triggering for someone's lived trauma? Like factory farming is fucked for sure but...nobody here is a factory farmed animal freed from their bonds. I guess if someone had some traumatic edible animal abuse situation that they're trying to cope with and they want to avoid that? Maybe don't sub to the food comm then.
My gut take is that folks asking for a CW on pictures of cooked or prepared meat are sort of delegitimizing the actual purpose of the CW. Diluting what it should be used for. You can easily get into a space where we just CW anything. Do we CW any post about religion because of trauma people experienced there? CW any post about school because folks experience trauma there? I hate the whole slippery slope thing but there's a line somewhere
True enough, but I'm struggling to see where the trauma is at here at all, secondary or otherwise. I mean yes, animal abuse is awful, and factory farming goes well beyond abuse, but there's a gulf between "posting pictures of factory farming" and "posting pictures of a brisket." I'm genuinely not trying to say that anyone's trauma is invalid, I just struggle to see where "a picture of meat" is genuinely traumatic to anyone. Uncomfortable? Absolutely. Disgusting? I can definitely understand. But traumatic? It's a big word that has real weight behind it and I think it's important to keep it that way. We aren't talking about people here, we're talking about animals. Do I think animals should have rights? Yeah definitely. Do I think it's appropriate to anthropomorphize them and equate animal struggles to human struggles? No chance, and I think that equating the two as if they're the same is harmful to all of the humans who are struggling too. So I think my main point is that I don't see how a well-removed-from-the-process picture of an animal that may or may not have struggled at all is going to be traumatic and triggering to a human. I'm not seeing the connection; humans are not factory farmed anywhere in the world, and humans and animals are not the same.
If this is something that IS traumatic to you, sorry that I'm not understanding, and please note that I have no expectation that you relive it just to try to help me understand either. Not trying to debate bro you either, I think it's an interesting topic and I'm happy to learn something from the process.
There is already c/vegan though. Isn't that supposed to be a place where vegans can post about food without ever having to see or discuss meat?
Thanks. This article is interesting. I agree with basically everything you're saying with regards to animals and animal rights, I think we just disagree on where the line is between animal rights and human rights. It's an interesting topic, so thanks for the discourse on it.
