My family are mostly Democrat voting liberals and I identified as one for years. When I was in 5th grade I spent more time with my Fox News-watching grandparents and became a Republican for like a year or 2 and became an apolitical lib for a while. From like 2015-2019 I was a Bernie bro who had some objectively shit takes. The biggest 180 I did was probably on the sex trade. I used to be for it as a horny teen like “huh? Did someone say SeX?? Well it’s all ConSeNsUAL so why cockblock someone from getting some PuSsY?” Obviously now I realize that’s a disgusting sentiment and that most people in the industry are not happy and would rather do anything else. Just because a few are happy with their line of work, it doesn’t make it right to force so many others into a position where they feel abused and humiliated or threatened. “Legitimacy of industry” in terms of prostitution always means lining the pockets of abusive pimps (physical or anything else) who will use the opportunity to get rich and usually fund illegal markets (source: Look at Nevada). Enough about me, what topics have become more clear to yall after becoming a communist? I could probably list a few others but I’m interested in seeing what yall say.
Hmm for me a pretty recent 180 i took was on Deng Xiaoping. I was a commie but I really wasn't super educated on the state of AES(even though i am part of the chinese diaspora) and was always under the impression that it was capitalism. That deng xiaoping turned china capitalist. Probably not really as big of an 180 as some other people here but really learning about china was really inspiring and restored my hope in the world ig. I feel way more patriotic towards china right than amerikkka.
Thinking of possibly doing my master's in china after my undergrad.
Unworming yourself from the hegemonic propoganda related to AES/NK/China is a difficult one to do comrade, it took me actually meeting people from China to understand this fully.
The European Union. I used to think it was a somewhat flawed but reformable stepping stone to a more just and strong European (liberal) democracy. After becoming a Marxist it seems obvious now it is a neoliberal power structure with some pro's for the common people (Schengen Area), but so many more ways for the ruling class to get their way (that same Schengen Area facilitating cheap labor and trade).
While a socialist pan-European organization would be amazing, it is laughable to think the EU is just slightly flawed or even reformable into this. Like parliamentary politics itself, the EU has some limited uses as a platform to us socialists and anti imperialists (Clare Daly, Mick Wallace), but limited they truly are due to its inherent neoliberal nature. State and Revolution was a great book that really put me into the ML view on Marxism, and taught me that existing power structures like the EU can not be reformed to serve the working class.
I'd have to say the same. The EU is nothing but an institution by and for capital. Ironically I remember my first real encounter with "EU bad actually" came from a Brexit leaver perspective, but that doesn't mean they're not wrong.
Since then I have come to the conclusion that the EU has successfully achieved with the pen what the Nazis failed to achieve with the sword, namely intra-European imperialist relations.
Seeing how the EU handled 2008 really made that last bit clear
Same, i though it's the run of the mill succdem org but the one that ultimately work for the members benefits and posing some hope for multipolar world, especially when it was closing to Russia and China some years ago. Reading Marx and Lenin make me seriously doubt its purpose. Year 2022 moved me to "EU delenda est".
Around 2019, on China. I was like "not real socialism and it opress minorities". Holy shit thanks Chapo.
I respect all sex workers But the economy of sex work is something I've had a complete 180 on. It's not an industry that should be enabled under the current capitalist parameters.
Same. I used to think this is simply, "sex workers are the ones carrying all the risk and harm, so only their opinion matters. sex worker organisations call for full decriminalisation. /thread"
Until I learned decriminalisation of sex work in the first world leads to increased human trafficking from the Global South: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X12001453#s0045
To put it bluntly, brown women who would otherwise lead their normal lives, are kindapped and smuggled to be raped by white men, in large numbers, whenever a first world country decriminalises prostitution.
This works both ways - criminalising prostitution reduces human trafficking, as shown above in the case study.
People trafficked from the Global South are completely marginalised and poweless, they don't have a voice. The voices we hear, calling for decriminalisation, are mostly from self employed Westerners. And while I genuinely do care about their right to safer work conditions, for me it doesn't trump the right of brown women to not be kidnapped and raped by white men.
I think the policy under capitalism should be complete decriminalization of the actual workers but harsh punishment for Johns and pimps.
I couldn’t agree more. It reminds me of a liberal take I saw where they suggested making weed fully illegal and prostitution legal. They posited that weed dealers are worse for society because you can just avoid a prostitute but friends may offer to sell weed. The weed dealers certainly aren’t GOOD. But at least they don’t exploit a person for money and they don’t usually siphon that profit into skeevier and more dangerous black markets. Pimps do BOTH of those things and somehow someway libs and even misguided lefties try to make prostitution into a good societal practice. I’ve also heard the argument that “it’s one of the oldest professions on Earth” and so is monarchy, so are mercenaries. That doesn’t make these professions more honorable or less. It’s what the institution stands for as a whole and prostitution takes vulnerable people in any given society, exploits their lack of opportunities and resources and forces them into an environment that is not good for their health in any ways. Sorry for the rant, Ik we’re all on the same side here but the mere EXISTENCE of that industry, let alone the concept of people outside of that industry defending it just enrages me to no end.
They posited that weed dealers are worse for society because you can just avoid a prostitute but friends may offer to sell weed.
With marijuana legalized it won’t be your friend selling it but some massive corporation. My semi-ironic anti legalization take is that legalization takes weed selling from an industry of small business owners that helps them get by to an industry of massive corporations (who tend to have whiter owners). Of course we should legalize so the small sellers don’t go to jail for nothing. The other anti-legalization argument I have is that the legalized industry as it exists is environmentally destructive, though that calls for nationalization and regulation.
One of the worst prostitution takes I’ve seen is that it’s needed to stop incelism. Why do “sexologists” always have to start with half decent takes and take them to the total extreme?
I’ve also heard the argument that “it’s one of the oldest professions on Earth”
It’s not even true though. What about farming or crafting? In many places sex used to be “freer” and uncommodified.
Sorry for the rant, Ik we’re all on the same side here but the mere EXISTENCE of that industry, let alone the concept of people outside of that industry defending it just enrages me to no end.
Totally agree
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Of course! Sex workers should be provided all the care and support they need to get out of the abusive situation.
I dated someone back home in Central America very briefly and she told me about the sex tourism and how they use minors to cater to pedo $.
Most of these man start by offering to fly them back to their country, that's a pedophile power dynamic, where you take a young child out of their home country and somewhere they don't know nothing of, they solely have to rely on this pedo.
I do believe sex workers at the end of the day will be the ones to decide what happens outside of capitalist parameters, but the sex work industry right now under capitalism is filled with sex trafficking, because they're really one in the same.
Even outside of capitalism issues of pedophilia and social ills would still be relevant in the discussion
Pedophiles get the wall
As for SWers what do you do if they still exist in socialism?
I don't want SW to exist in any form, btw I hope that's clear
I admit when it comes to the concept of prostitution in a socialist society, I have more questions than answers. Like what happens if one SWer is more “popular”, for lack of a better term, than others? Do they deserve extra credit for their labor or is it more evenly distributed? If so, what would be the hours? What would be the terms of rejection of a customer? How would customers or “johns” work in this scenario? Who would run the business while simultaneously not being objectively a “pimp”? If it’s an established place that serves food or drinks, is it also just a bar for regular customers or is it ONLY a brothel? It gets confusing to me and obviously if there were enough CONSENTING SWers it would be hypocritical of me to deny them access to an occupation they feel comfortable with, but keeping the industry fair and safe seems like a juggling act that I can’t imagine working well on the first implementation. Maybe after a few tweaks and changes but it seems rather complicated
I am with you 100%. I just want to clarify that
Every time I try to express similar sentiments I'm hit with left book responses
I agree comrade, I just don't wanna offend any SWers amongst our ranks. I don't think there is anything ethical about it.
I dated an ex SW... And it was around the time I was very pro sex work because of the leftbook environment that I was in at the time. But she opened my eyes, the topic requires a lot more nuance, and we can't fall victim to romanticizing the economy of SW. Really one can argue that whether voluntary or not the industry of SW preys on young people, especially minors.
The girl I dated said, it happened so fast, she thought it was all on her terms, until years later when she realized how powerless she was. She was into deep, and unfortunately the experience had a very negative effect on her mental health. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Most people (not customers obviously) that are for legal sex work don't think it's good. They (myself included) think it would make it not as bad as it is now.
It's the same as legalizing drugs. People don't use them much more, they just do it with less shit and less violence on average.I agree, even if it sex work were legal it would lead still bring a lot of harm towards minors, and women. Because of the sex trafficking dynamic laced into the industry of it
I would say legalizing drugs and sex work are two different concepts, as someone who smokes weed and had their life changed by psychedelics I wouldn't want people criminalized for recreational, religious, or spiritual drug use. That being said, crack, heroin, and cocaine are drugs that are only lead to self harm, and should be outlawed.
I used to be a heavy meat eater who said that 'I could never abandon meat'. Until I actually tried abandoning meat and I haven't gone back since. It's easy, cheap, healthy and I learned to cook many different things now.
How do you feel about the Impossible meats and stuff like that?
I don't eat them that much. Many of the recipes I use don't include them and they oftentimes are more expensive than lentils, beans, mushrooms, chickpeas, whatever.
They did get better in the past few years though. A lot of them now taste pretty good. I don't mind them but I always give starting vegans/vegetarians the advice to not buy them too often and instead look for other culture's recipes. You will save money and it will probably be better quality of food.
Bean substitutes can go a long way, and that’s coming from someone who isn’t even vegan or vegetarian
Impossible meat isn’t really vegan as they have been known to use animal testing. I (and many other vegans) don’t consiter their products to be vegan
The idea that the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were a horrific but sadly necessary evil to end the war. Endless propaganda got to me and I never put to much thought into it.
I learned the history and found out that it was all a lie. Japan was ready to surrender, they were finished, the attack was senseless evil power projection.
That story about building the torture nexus, theres no way they're going to let anyone stop them from using it on innocent people
I'm new to learning about a loooot of stuff. I used to support Ukraine's side at the beginning of the war
Good for you for getting out of that. Not a lot of people are capable.
Fucking everything lately. I understand now most of the people we call leftists online are historically-illiterate historical extremists speedrunning the 2nd International in the midst of a golden opportunity to live new history lol
That the Holocaust was an aberration. If anything it was a continuation of what came before.
Maybe this has long been clear to some of you but it's been interesting for me coming to this conclusion. I went to school in Canada, where we of course learned about the settlement and colonization of Canada, but in a "oh this was bad but it was a long time ago and for the most part the white people didn't know any better." It was also always the British or French colonists doing these horrible things, once Canada requested independence a few unimportant treaties may have been broken but all in all everything's fine now. Well except for residential schools, but that was an honest mistake. And except for unbelievably awful living conditions on native reserves, that's their own fault. So goes the state written and approved school curriculum, of course they can't admit to their generations long history of crimes.
Of course the colonists and later the US and Canadian governments knew exactly what they were doing. They killed about a hundred million people on purpose.
Around the same time during high school I took a course that focused on the Holocaust, with material written by a Zionist NGO, basically placing the Holocaust as the pinnacle of crime against humanity to which nothing can compare.
And that's all while ignoring colonial atrocities in the global south, as I've only really started learning about those as a part of my journey into ML.
Honestly I'm not really sure. Most of my "stances" before I became a communist were uninformed because like every other person living in Amerikkka, we're indoctrinated to believe the lies of the empire.
As a kid up till I got into college I was mostly apolitical (as much as a Black person can be) aside from thinking Bush Jr was a fucking idiot and that Amerikkka shouldn't be acting like the world's policeman and telling others what to do. When Obama became president I (like other uninformed Black folks) celebrated cause we finally had someone that looked like us in the White House so no more racism (lmao)!
Wasn't until the BLM protests that started in 2014 (ironically during the Obama administration) that I became woke (the REAL, OG woke) and realized that this country was not built for people who look like me. Also around that time I was on my own in the world of capitalist Amerikkka and the struggles I went through made me question why things like food, housing and education can't be free.
It wasn't until 2016 that I actually became active on social media during Bernie's campaign, and I was hooked by the idea of free education and a higher minimum wage, etc. When he got fucked by the Democratic Party I was so pissed, I voted Green Party that year cause I really believed in Jill Stein (the only fucking party that had reparations as a part of their platform) and ended up rubbing shoulders with actual communists (they called themselves "watermelons", green on the outside but red on the inside). This was when I discovered leftbook...I could write an entire post about my experience with leftbook...ugh.
That aside, I was a anarcho-communist cause I thought anarchism was cool but after learning more about the Black Panthers I dropped the anarcho and just became an ML and pretty much never looked back.
I voted Green Party that year cause I really believed in Jill Stein
Stein is more of a comrade of mine than many so-called communists who call her a quack or a fraud.
How many of us have been kidnapped and interrogated by the fucking FBI for posing a threat to the oil industry?
I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Baraka as well. If Stein is a comrade, he's a goddamn comrade. I will never forget shaking that man's hand.
Of course they had no chance cause of how bourgeois elections work but it was the first time I was really excited about politics cause I actually knew what was going on.
Never voted again after that lol.
I thought anarchism was cool but after learning more about the Black Panthers I dropped the anarcho and just became an ML and pretty much never looked back.
"If it was good enough for Bobby Seale, it's good enough for me" became mantra.
AI. even as a communist, i thought that we could just make minor progress in AI research and then overthrow capitalism and have socialist AI which will be awesome. but after seeing the internet polluted with AI-created drivel (that "internet is mostly bots" theory might be true in all honesty...the capitalists would absolutely do something like that to make the internet look more populated because a lot of industries now rely on the internet) and ben shapiro using AI generated fake images to fuel hate against palestine, i want to see AI completely gone. i despise it. if i had the choice to destroy AI and LLMs and all that shit, i would. and i say this as someone in a field that is currently seeing some fledgling AI implementation.
Shits fucked, I am searching for a software engineer job and I stumbled upon a job listing that offered 50k USD a year. The job wasn't about actually coding, but about overseeing the training process of an AI that generates code. They will pay you more that x5 of what my teacher parents make in order to train your replacement, it makes me fucking mad
I don't leave my house anymore ever since cops tried sneaking me with weapons drawn for going for a jog in the springtime. That day, I went from "reform the police" to "fuck the police, I'll shoot back."
LAPD shot someone on my block two weekends ago, he was asking to die (he was saying he wanted to be shot by witness accounts), and was flaunting something at them. But he was clearly distressed and to see one of my people laid out bleeding under their truck with their working supplies piled on the back.... Well its an image in my brain reminding me that I'm one mental breakdown from the same fate
That’s very troubling to experience, I can’t imagine seeing something like that. Stay safe out there comrade, and keep your eyes peeled
Thank you, comrade
I'm trying to find the ways to channel that anger and distraught
There have been a couple of times my worldview has collapsed, and I took better/more accurate positions afterward.
- That I was male, with a considerable amount of low-key sexism and not-so-low-key queerphobia thrown in. That was a hell of a shakeup, and probably responsible for the spark that started the rest.
- I was raised an evangelical bible thumper and oooohhh boy, does that carry some hefty baggage—ranging from Isreal being -THE- holy land, Evolution is a lie, and those godless, evil queer commies have it coming. So much cringe. Karma is not without a sense of humor.
- Was a right-wing Libertarian, very interested in military theory, military history, and was offered full scholarships to military colleges type. Was, unfortunately, definitely on the proto-fascist track politically. Although it did result in reading my first book on any kind of communist thinking in the form of SOVIET MILITARY STRATEGY by Vasiliĭ Sokolovskiĭ.
- The Hollywood, mainstream Western storytelling methods are the best/key/correct/fundamentals of the craft. This happened around the time I started becoming a communist. With all the liberal assumptions modern storytelling makes/requires, I had to re-evaluate and relearn my career craft completely. This is the only one I openly talk about because it can be presented as a safe topic in all circles, isn't as cringe to admit to, and ML Narrative Theory is unfortunately not touched on that much—especially here in the West. And I believe it's one of our great weaknesses because we have little to challenge the subtle and constant torrent Hollywood and mainstream entertainment douses us with. This is a shame because storytelling is humanity's evolved mechanism for sharing our experiences navigating life—we should have this tool in our toolbox. Maybe I should post some lecture/essay posts on narrative theory, how it relates and connects to ML theories, and how it breaks away from Hollywood's simplistic formulas...
I am a 5th year Animation student, currently working on my group's and mine second 3d animation short so far. It's anti-capitalist in its message, but I rly wonder how the storytelling could be different in a marxist direction. Obv we weren't exactly taught to create communist films (tho we got at least one communist teacher.) Either way, I'll take anything you can give me o.O
Would the work of Bertolt Brecht be of any use to you? I'm unsure of the overlap but it seems that a Marxist approach to theatre/drama could be helpful?
Yoo totally! Thx for the suggestion, I'll make sure to look into him. Any specific work you'd have in mind?
Brecht on Theatre seems to be the go-to place to start.
There's a summary here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zwmvd2p/revision/1 but lol:
In 1941 Brecht became resident in the USA but returned to Europe in 1947 after appearing before the House Un-American Activities Committee. Ostensibly against communism, this committee also targeted intellectuals.
Yeah, communist intellectuals mf!!
That's a testament to how well regarded he is. He's so important for Western canon that they can't forget him but they want to carve away his Marxism. Familiar story. Be careful about what you read about Brecht. I can't recall how much of a Marxist he actually was. It's been a long time since I looked through On Theatre and when I read it I wasn't a Marxist and didn't notice that he was one but I was oblivious to that kind of thing back then.
You probably know this already, but the Soviet Union produced a lot of animations that ventured into uncharted territory, such as "Shooting Range", "Hedgehog in the fog", or "Polygon". They used lots of experimental techniques whose effects you can study and apply. As for storytelling, you might enjoy "The Key", I really like how it builds up towards its final moral.
There isn’t a whole lot of Atlanticist liberal film or TV that I can stomach anymore. Novels don’t require the capital that the visual narrative arts do, so there are stories to be found there.
Wouldn't happen to have any suggested readings for ML narrative theory would you?
I'm unsure how ML these suggestions are but maybe they'll help.
Bertolt Brecht could be a start. And/or Walter Benjamin?
Michael Rosen wrote a book called The Author. It's more about narrative/poetry for children. I'll dig out my copy and see if it might be relevant.
I believe China Miéville edited a collection of essays on Marxism and sci fi. Don't think he's ML. You could do worse that carefully read and analyse his The City and the City, then do the same to the TV miniseries adaptation.
Might also be worth a ctrl+f+'Aristotle' in Marx's works, probably starting with Capital, then reading Aristotle's Poetics in light of Marx's broader engagement with him.
Karl Marx and World Literature by SS Prawer could be relevant.
I think he's a Trotskyist but Terry Eagleton is sure to have written something about narrative. His intro to literary theory has some great bits.
Edit: I read the thread out of order and realised you were reply-asking @Adhriva@lemmygrad.ml, who might actually have some relevant recommendations! Hopefully that's the case because I'm also interested ☺️
Of a strictly ML nature, not many immediately come to mind. We have the Socialist Realism movement, but it is often examined through a western lens, which loses much of its nuance unless the audience is well-versed in art history. A few speeches by important figures touch on art and it's purpose, but rarely in a way that would help us construct better, more engaging stories. But all this was also the problem identified. We don't have a strong tradition to compete with capitalist media and their methods of confining stories to mere, and often shallow, entertainment. And what examples I have stumbled across, such as Han Qixiang, I'm not fluent enough in the language or culture to delve into their work as much as I'd want for contextual analysis to really comment or advocate from. And Western works, usually more hidden in history (pockets of French and German expression), such as Walter Benjamin's DER ERZAHLER, I should probably re-visit before fully recommending since the last time I read through it I was only a baby commie.
I was a teenage anarchist. You can imagine I’ve changed my mind on a lot of things 😂
My brother legit has an A tattoo on his arm and now he's a chud libertarian/fascist.
Oof. I just got the Disco Elysium Communard symbol tattooed on me, but I definitely considered getting the A when I was younger. Thankfully I’m terrified of needles and couldn’t get over it until I started doing martial arts recently, or I probably would have gone through with the A.
I def still need to play Disco Elysium.
I only have one tattoo and it's Hunter Thompson's initials on my wrist. I'm a fan of his work and it's sort of a reminder to me to stay weird.
It hurt and I was like "never getting one again" but now I'm considering getting an ASD infinity symbol somewhere noticable but out of the way. I don't know if I'd ever get anything that showed my political affiliations but I guess to be fair. To my edgy ass brother, at the time anarchy meant something not related to actual theory. I doubt he even knows that there is anarchist theory.
That’s what I like about the Disco symbol, is I can just tell most people it’s from a video game, but those who know will know it’s political meaning.
I do have a few buttons on my hat that are sort of "if you know, you know". I have the Anarchist black flag, an AnCom flag, and a Anarcha-feminism flag button.
But I also have a button that says "All Cats Are Beautiful" and no one has picked up on it being an allusion to ACAB.
I forgot to look up the Disco Elysium symbol until just now and yeah, I can see that definitely working lol.
Non-Gommunism GrainEater?? I don’t believe that such a thing is even possible.
I either came too late to see it or the @GrainEater@lemmygrad.ml getting here before me is no coincidence and admin powers came with the ability to reverse the process of turning grain into bread.
It depends on your time zone. My bread day is October 27th. If it’s the 28th for you then you can’t see out anymore.
But thank you!
