It’s almost like they didn’t hear a word he said.
link
https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/wio72z/roger_waters_is_denying_chinas_genocide_on_uyghur/
For people who like to invoke Orwell for literally any reason, redditors do seem to think a lot of times that war is actual peace.
What they're talking about is the creation of the Military Industrial Complex but without directly saying it. New Deal programs were replaced with military ones and American production shifted heavily into a constant state of arms production.
The reason it "helped the economy" had nothing to do with war or violence, just the fact that military production lines require massive amounts of labor and are centrally planned and funded by the state.
If America had decided to centrally plan light industrial production and invest in infrastructure (continuing New Deal policies) it would have had the same effect, but you can't genocide Koreans with trains in Chicago.
Libs inadvertently defending the efficiency and efficacy of central planning
The new deal was cool and good and helped alleviate a lot of suffering during the depression
its false conservative cope and just a page away from their real ideological sticking point of 'the new deal prolonged the great depression & hoover would've solved it by doing nothing'
Idk how much effect the New Deal had, but being more or less the only industrialized economy that wasn't bombed flat with incredible loss of human life worked out really well for the US.
"War is great and good because it creates innovation!" :so-true:
-Actual take that was taught to me by my (not american) history teacher
It's not completely untrue. War makes the capitalist state willing to push aside liberal-conservative orthodoxy and invest in R&D, overrule patents and centrally plan research and production. When the features of capitalism that inhibits innovation are pushed back you get more innovation. All of this is of course for military purposes so civilian applications are incidental but the efficiency of central planning is evident.
This is true. Funnily enough this was not what he meant and more like "Innovation just happens because free markets in your country want to kill more than the free markets in their country!" :so-true:
He also said that the space race was a pure competition between privately funded and state-funded R&D, which is hilariously untrue.
I get why someone who only have a superficial knowledge of things might believe that Space X was privately funded but NASA? How does one arrive at that belief?
Because it was a great ideological battle between two competing systems and capitalism won, btw :very-smart:
I've had to dislodge so many brainworms because of that fucker. Definitely one of the top reasons why I can't trust anything this fucking country says about it's own history, it's all lies built on top of more lies garnished with some russophobia on top. :deeper-sadness:
Just look at how good WW2 was for the United States!
Or 9/11, for that matter. Image how our economy would bloom ifwe had a 9/111 every day.
Yes because redditors are mostly young, well-off westerners who are bored. And war (wars in which they have no skin in the game) is "exciting" to them. It's like a real life action movie combined with sport where they get a "team" they get to root for. It's why IMO they treat Zelensky like some Marvel hero. It's all just entertainment to them.
How dare Roger Waters blame NATO for provoking a war they provoked
These people have the intelligence of a fucking door knob. Just braindead, slobbering morons rabidly regurgitating whatever the media funnels into their empty heads.
You live in the West, asshole. Take a look in the fucking mirror! You don't have the ground to lecture anyone else about human rights and illegal invasions.
The same people who cry china 1984 censorship want your head on a pike and your family executed for daring to question their paper-thin narrative.
Pretty sure they all claim to be open minded. It's the summit of the narcissistic, self-aggrandizing liberal mountain. Problem is, there's no mind to be opened.
It’s interesting that ideology has nothing to do with intelligence.
"Intelligence" isn't even a real thing. It's funny to make fun of people for being dumb but it's important to realize that's literally just not how humans work. There are countless types of 'intelligence' and none of them work the way it is commonly understood.
This a big moment for status quo PR, this is how they reach the average person who doesn't pay attention to this shit. I guarantee there are feds in that thread. I'm also fairly certain his career is "over", I mean he can retire comfortably numb at this point but they will make an example out of him I guarantee it. I'm preparing for massive psychic damage.
I think the opposite. They'll ignore it completely. It is much much more effective to utterly dismiss and ignore the opposition than it is to try and refute them when you are the one doing disinformation. Every single conversation that brings up the topic reaching just a handful more people at a time and making them see the correct side of the issue is bad for them, it slowly creates a situation they get forced into addressing.
We saw this here in the UK with the ukrainian nazis initially, they desperately wanted to make it into an incredibly minor thing and propagandise people. It worked initially, but over the months we slowly turned more and more people on the topic, little by little. Now there is widespread acceptance that Ukraine has a very real nazi problem. They didn't want that reality to get addressed but they basically can't do shit about that now.
If people like Rogers actually get engaged they will turn people.
Reddit also only has an audience with a very specific crowd of 20 something males. They're not as important as they believe. Rogers will turn a lot of people that are 40+ if they try and argue with him or destroy him. Reddit is not the major influence group that Rogers words will reach.
Reddit also only has an audience with a very specific crowd of 20 something males. They’re not as important as they believe.
:this:
Go out into the real world and ask folks about the Uyghurs or even Ukraine, and see how much they actually know or care. Basically no one does (in the US at least). My partner for example is vaguely aware Russia and Ukraine are fighting but probably hasn't given it a second of thought in months.
(That said, propaganda has worked well enough that most Americans do hate China, but more for vague reasons they can't explain or something about "taking our jobs")
At the end of the day it's not about turning everyone at once. We can't do that. We don't have the media power.
What we do have is the truth though. They want the large crowds of screaming angry people to deter us from pushing back, they want the social anxiety of being completely clear about the matter to make us mince our words, not address things directly, or literally shut the fuck up out of fear.
If you push through that, if your attempts to get through only turn a few people at a time, that matters over thousands and thousands of leftists doing it over months and months and months. We must never stop explaining, on a long enough timeline we will always win.
I've had a lot of people bring up Uyghurs irl. I know a lot of people who pride themselves on staying "informed" which means listening to npr and reading nyt opeds
I mean we'll never know how much a pop culture foray into geopolitics sways people one way or another, its not like anyone will say yeah I was brainwashed until this rock star said something in an interview. I think my point is that the media will spin this as a tool of saying "look at the clown who believes clown things! What a washed up loser" and that sort of thing will work on far more people than will question these narratives. Anyone who is thinking yeah way to go Roger, already probably knows the US is fighting a proxy war with Russia using neonazis, or the Xinjiang "genocide" is bullocks.
So yeah they might ignore it completely but as someone who follows boomer rock star news, I've never seen anything quite as based and correct. Usually its just liberal status quo drivel, Trump bad fascist man type of shit. I guess maybe I'm a little excited by this, its the most punk rock thing I've seen in a long as time. I mean even "punk" bands these days are mostly radlibs screaming about authoritarianism.
I mean McAfee was able to be influential despite being a washed up loser living in the middle of nowhere. Boomers and Gen X have very few voices that sound and look like themselves who speak authentically, by which I mean the only figures they have in media are news presenters and bullshit commentators who have a persistent aura of pure fakeness.
They have nobody that sounds authentic and when someone speaks authentically even if they're speaking complete nonsense it is influential to them, they value hearing an earnest voice from someone that looks and talks like them. The only people that get into media to do that are washed up rockstars. More washed up rockstars are reactionary than like Rogers though.
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I’m also fairly certain his career is “over”
no it's really not for two reasons, one he's in pink floyd which is too big a band with men of a certain age, two people probably won't connect the name Roger Waters to pink floyd because liberals are really dumb
Roger Waters has been touring PF music under his own name for years and the rest of the band kept the name. Gilmour is a massive lib and hates Roger and won't do another cash grab reunion with him after this. His audience of mainly boomers who are either lib or chud will no longer pay $80-150 to see him, and RW ego will never have him play smaller venues.
I'm not saying that he isn't open about being in PF I'm saying that the fans like the music enough most people just aren't online enough to care about this sort of thing
He hasn't been in Pink Floyd since 1985, except one short reunion tour in 05. Pink Floyd just recorded their pro-Ukraine song without him, which maybe was a catalyst for these latest interviews.
"can we please stop giving this man our money" lol he's like 80, this does not deprive him of anything.
I'd like to point out that Vijay Prashad has a Roger Waters blurb on the front of his book Washington Bullets (recommended reading)
well that's just more evidence for horseshoe theory :galaxy-brain:
They work so hard to push down leftism of all flavors because they know the second we start winning the slightest victory, it's all over, we are just too coherent and lacking in contradictions.
Gonna start using this next time I'm scolding liberals.
Famous tankies, all the capitalist African leaders that didn't want their counties to starve
if europeans were sensible this would be their reaction as well
Europeans are not sensible. I thought people here would at least come down from the high of pure ideology once their energy bills doubled but no, they are completely insane.
It's basically the coloniser god complex warmongering mentality that has been passed down for centuries.
Never forget that The Soviet Union actively fought against this ideology and was beaten down for it.
If Europeans were sensible they would have put the breaks on NATO thirty years ago.
I've always known Waters was a belligerent, megalomaniacal asshole... he's blaming the US, NATO...
Noted trait of megalomaniacs: criticizing the most powerful institutions for things that said institutions did.
We must rally around and protect smol, innocent, NATO, who is obviously incapable of protecting itself.
Big fan of the comment that points out Reddit would be fully onboard with the invasion of Iraq if it happened today. 100000% true. People were straight up calling others terrorists for criticizing the Afghanistan strike just last week.
Gee, I wonder if Roger Waters, a guy whose dad died at the hands of Nazis, might be on to something regarding how dangerous allowing Nazis to flourish is? :thinking-about-it:
We don't do that enough. We basically have an impregnable fortress from which to sail out and cause problems.
I always go agitate whenever anybody posts some dumb reddit thread here, I thought that's what I was supposed to be doing. I don't think I'm very good at it though because the bad takes piss me off too much so I end up just calling people names and stuff
When you remind Americans that both Republicans and Democrats are liberals...
:troll:
Liberal-conservatives. The two ideologies merged a long time ago and the only difference between liberals and conservatives today is the segments of the society they direct their messaging towards.
Those with liberal vibes are completely fine with 99% of the police state, nationalism and white supremacy. Those with conservative vibes are 99% fine with how capitalism tears apart traditional communities and values.
Someone with a :reddit-logo: account should go in there and point out that China deals with religious extremists to protect society from them while :amerikkka: appoints them to the Supreme Court for life with no vote
:agony-shivering: love to live in a free democracy like this
westerners, especially liberals, are completely unused to having their worldview challenged
I'd argue they're too used to it. Everything's just another Debate. And winning is what's important so they just keep doubling down blindly assuming they can't lose if they never concede defeat.
“Delenda est”? What are you a Roman centurion? SPEAK ENGLISH: Death To America!!
are you fuxcking kidding me I misspelled my fucking username fuck
This thread is dogshit yes.
But this user dropped one of the most legendary burns I've ever seen.
:liberalism: Idk if you can speak about his credibility given you can’t even spell Zenz’s name.
:gigachad-hd: Sorry I was given a mission from god to destroy the spelling of names
:marx-ok:
I could write something racist here as :zenz: to do a bit, but I choose not to. :quokka-smile:
