I see you out there. Posting. You should post here too. Why aren't you? Genuinely curious actually.
This is what they're talking about.
This is a hairs breadth away from "I'd vote for Obama a third time if I could"
I don’t get the Obama reference sorry. But yeah, I was being sarcastic.
That "would if I could" is an awfully defeatist sentiment, isn't it? Wouldn't you rather think constructively of active steps you can take to improve the situation?
Well given the dominant thought process of this instance, and the way comments are going, I thought it was obvious. But you asked and found out that way.
You know, one day before you made your account, a three years' user of Hexbear made a post sincerely equating indigenous rights movements to anarcho-primitivism. So, clearly one cannot rely on people on a website with open registrations being fully aware of and well-read on racial issues, not even long-term users who up to that point had seemed to have consistently good and informed views.
But even putting that aside, it's never a good idea to assume that sarcasm written in the same way as sincerity is obvious. Never ever ever. Sarcasm should always be distinguished in some way, through tone indicators or upside down smileys or trademark symbols or parentheses or nonstandard capitalization or even just recognizable phrases.
bear it in mind
Keep this bear on your mind while you're at it
I come here because it's less white than my normal surroundings
Yeah, it's perfectly valid and fair to need some time away from people acting white as fuck sometimes, my soul needs some time away from my body whenever I catch myself acting white as fuck too
100% real; sometimes you only catch it in hindsight and just "fuuuuuck..."
Every morning is a process of killing the white man in your head
Marxist hipsters that engage in the “you’re not as leftist as me or you haven’t read as much theory as me so your opinion is not only going to be brigaded but is also a bannable offense” is what causes me to never post shit on here.
I don't really see this much anymore, which is maybe because everyone is genuinely too afraid of being banned to effortpost, or because the culture has changed such that it doesn't happen anymore. I know it USED to feel like this and that actually did get me to stop posting more than once, so, I don't disagree. Maybe give it another try though, if only because I haven't seen it in a while
Lots of effort posting in the news mega thread still. For those scared to engage, just best the Marxist hipsters at their own game and post theory. It's what I do lol.
I am glad that someone sort of hears me. It's still like this as of today and IMO, it will never, ever change as long as there are people moderating this instance who believe that even a slight variation from any one of their beliefs must be resolutely banned or brigaded lest it metasticize and grow into a counter-movement.
oh word, which slight variations have you seen being banned?
Someone dared to insinuate that North Korea is perhaps not totally awesome after all.
if only more people had the courage to speak up and chime in with all capitalist media to give license to 75 years of genocidal occupation
This child I keep punching in the face has some personality traits I think are maladaptive
And I'm brave enough to say it
i'm sympathetic to this but genuinely, if we don't critique on account of the overwhelming imperialist information network, but also largely discount/reject the imperialist narrative, how do we arrive at a real perspective? the opposite of the west's narrative cannot be true in all cases
if someone is going to come in with a critique it's going to have to at least acknowledge all of the stuff that is usually elided by capitalist media, because that's the ocean we all exist in and unfortunately it's necessary to distinguish yourself from the mass delusion to be taken seriously.
it's not great and we're on the other side of this sometimes, like when liberals accuse Hillary detractors of misogyny and you have to first establish your feminist bona fides to have any hope with someone steeped in that defense
EDIT: now that I think about it it's way worse because a sizable portion of mass media was anti-Hillary. there is no mass media that favors DPRK or even deviates from the crazy hermit kingdom narrative
this just feels like a dead end in this context, intellectually i get where you're coming from but how this interaction went was: user explains hesitance to post because of they're afraid of getting piled on-->someone baits an example out-->dogpile
rhetorically i think the conversation's just been terminated or forced into a confrontation instead of something educational. and sort of proved their point.
idk where im going with this because i totally get not wanting to coddle liberals and the desire to dunk---but i also see how it sucks to have to exonerate yourself of holding water for imperialists just to begin a conversation about DPRK or some other AES
yeah I hear you, I knew that was a risk. I just don't know if there's any real gain to outsiders for a left critique of DPRK until the occupation ends, I mean they are still at war even.
I guess it's hard for me to keep my mouth shut when someone whines that they get pushback for being negative about a country that's vilified in literally every piece of western mass media. how can anyone expect not to in that environment? and now that I think of it it doesn't even map to Hillary because there was plenty of mass media shitting on Hillary
EDIT: I wasn't trying to be an asshole in my initial comment, I hoped my tone was more mild and mostly sarcastic. but I am a little wasted rn so if I misjudged things I apologize
Let's not give them too much credit
Someone dared to insinuate that North Korea is perhaps not totally awesome after all.
They were being condescending and hyperbolic. It wasn't some uwu smol bean talking about their concern over the cult of personality, problems with the special economic zone, reactionary messaging from state outlets, or any number of other real criticisms that you can easily enough offer and get at least thoughtful replies, if not broad agreement on. It was none of that, it was "radical free-thinker dares to wrongthink against absurd dogma."
Like, I disagree with plenty of hexbears -- I've had you blocked for a long time and had to remove it to reply to your comment here. There's a difference between that and being a patronizing piece of shit over it, so assuming that jackass had something worthwhile to say instead of the same absolute horseshit that 99% of the anglophone world would offer on the topic is silly.
idk I think whatever you did that bothered me you stopped doing, since I always forget that you're blocked when I'm reading this site while logged out (which isn't true of most of the other people on that list). For what it's worth, you're off the list now
how do we arrive at a real perspective?
There's no real way to get anything close to a real perspective if you only know English. That's the reality. To approach a real perspective, the bare minimum is learning the relevant language and engaging primary sources written or spoken in that language. English is the tongue of Western imperialism, so the vast majority of material in English will support the Western imperialist line and the majority of material in English that don't either come from state actors who have the resources to hire English translators or independent content creators who completely rely on those same state sources.
There's plenty of nuanced discourse on North Korean defector who fled to South Korea. And they're all going to be in Korean. For English, it's either the DPRK line that they're doing it largely for economic reasons or the US/ROK line that they're doing it for freedomTM and democracyTM.
that functions well enough as an excuse to keep your mouth shut but it's quite in conflict with the idea of study. there hasn't been a socialist country that spoke english, it's ridiculous to circumscribe looking into how actual socialism was implemented/is without learning 2+ more languages. i assume most yankees here didn't get to go to private schools that offer russian or korean
What was the specific content of their statement? Do you remember or could you link it?
I have to agree with this. I have some opinions that slightly deviate from the more sanguine attitudes on foreign policy I've seen others express here and I've been reluctant to voice that.
What do you mean by "brigaded"? I think the in the way it's commonly used, that term means: when one community (traditionally a subreddit, but here on lemmy, an instance) goes into another community they normally would not participate in to mass-downvote or comment-spam that second community, usually as an organized effort. If someone were to post something on hexbear, hexbear couldn't brigade that post, by definition.
Do you just mean dogpile? Where a bunch of people all jump on and criticize someone who said something they didn't like? Because that definitely happens here, sometimes for good reason, other times not (which I realize is somewhat subjective). It especially sucks when it is due to something seemingly minor to the person getting dogpiled but the people doing the dogpiling treat it like the infraction was this terrible crime. Or worse, when it is all due to a misunderstanding but the person getting dogpiled feels hounded out of the thread. Hexbear can be really bad about this. It has happened to me and it is one hundred percent the reason I don't post more and it's part of the reason that by default I use rotating alts. Asshole trolls and reactionaries deserve it, that's one thing everyone on hexbear I think agrees, so it has been strongly reinforced in the community here. Also because on the wider internet it's almost always the reactionaries doing the dogpiling and drowning out the reasonable voices, whereas hexbear is more or less a safe pace for more vulnerable groups who are usually the brunt of it. It's no fun to be on the receiving end of a dogpile and I do think that hexbear sometimes gets way too overzealous about it to the detriment of the community and outside participation. If that's what you mean, I think that's a completely valid criticism and one I agree with.
The main reason I point out the distinction between "brigade" and "dogpile" is that when federation was new, hexbear got constantly accused of "brigading" by certain users on other instances just because hexbear is so active and would comment on posts they saw pop up in their feed, which is a good and normal thing to do. That is not brigading. It got very tiresome very quickly for me to be accused of brigading just because I commented in a thread where other hexbears were also commenting. It was used as an excuse by some instances to defederate from us even though it was obvious they only defederated because they didn't want to have to deal with dissenting voices. This was especially galling because we can't downvote, only upvote. This is not a valid criticism of hexbear.
I know this is already an old thread but I still think it's an important difference that should be kept in mind.
Fuckin yep. There's only so many times people are willing to put up with certain cadres being absolute assholes, writing huge debatebro posts about how you're wrong about every detail and wherever you're right you shouldn't say it, and how you're a reactionary anticommunist westoid before it just isn't worth it anymore.
People who have the "correct position" have a lot of license to behave poorly here, and it sucks.
This isn't even to touch on the feeding frenzy when someone whose home instance isn't here isn't exceptionally careful with everything they say.
People who have the "correct position" have a lot of license to behave poorly here, and it sucks.
This is a big reason why I don't post a lot of responses to some positions I disagree with. Even though I only mean to be constructive, I don't want to attract that kind of attention nonetheless.
You're saying you don't want the Red Guards to think you're a counterrevolutionary because you had the nerve to suggest maybe having specialized workers is good, actually?
Its funny how much this scenario seems to mimic the worst parts of our movement irl.
I just want to discuss this stuff in peace in hopes that we make lots of progress towards understanding how to apply Marx in the conditions of our ongoing 21st century polycrisis. The fact that I don't necessarily believe that communism is inevitable makes that a bit more pressing when I think about it. I guess I get it from listening to a lot of Marxist commentators who many would call pessimistic when they hear them evaluate the Left's current situation. It's from there that I guess I sometimes describe us here as being a bit too optimistic at times.
idk about that. For instance, a lot of users like the concept of the "PMC" (Professional Managerial Class) that many well-read Marxists would scoff at. I just like Lemmygrad because I know the communities better. Hexbear feels more like shitposts.
You absolutely nailed it, sorry the thing you hate happening happened to you because you explained how you hate when it happens, that sucks
I haven't read much theory and they still allow me to post once in a while, as a treat.
I hate to say it, but the owlposting scares them away anyways here's a triforce
uh, we already went over this on another account. let me pose a question to you:
Redditors of Lemmy, why have you built a cargo cult around a set of forum rules which has produced the most annoying scenarios we've seen in our lives (Reddit)? why haven't you used this as a bridge to the fediverse, and instead become overly involved with pruning your garden?
Reactionaries of lemmy, why do you hate trans people, queer people, non white people, marginalized people, oppressed people, and all people who aren't white straight wealthy men? This is why Hexbear has defederated from all over the place, because most of the fediverse is incredibly hostile to anyone who isn't a white straight wealthy man. And no, "just sharing ideas" and "freedom of peach" and "it's the internet just don't read posts you don't like" and "censorship pushes people away" and whatever else anyone might say in defense of the rest of the fediverse are not valid excuses for harboring literal hate speech. Stop using slurs, stop rabidly defending racism and oppressive institutions, and maybe folks like you won't get banned. It's not a cargo cult, it's literally just providing basic human decency.
you have no idea how gay we are on mastodon and its forks. this place is practically straight to me now. there are loads of gay people to connect with on the fediverse
I can't go find out how gay the rest of the fediverse is because they're too busy supporting people and policies that are literally trying to kill me
🤠 i literally make these people fear for their lives. they r complaining about lgbt doxxers almost as often as the are complaining about black lives matter. you can just imply ur stalking them and they go nuts for like years with reminders.
go on any instance and go to the account @palestine@a.gup.pe it's a group that aggregates tagged posts across all instances. we are beating these liberals within an inch of their life. what are they gonna do ban me from mastodon.social AGAIN? i already muted it or blocked it on half my accounts.
you do not have a monopoly on hating joe biden. eugene does not have a monopoly on the main twitter alternative. he is a sick bastard good at capturing mindshare tho
i will never understand chan and redditor elitism towards twitter because i have repeatedly made bridges to represent each other's posts on each other's software because it's nigh identical outside weird mistakes like misskey not being able to read lemmy bc it hardcodes some stupid shit
😭😭😭 what are you talking about we have them cordoned off into lib and poastie containment zones what the fuck
Why do you assume I'm from the rest of Lemmy when I'm trashing it as training wheels for redditors 💀💀💀💀💀
Honestly, I've always hated the twitter/microblogging format; and would go back to phpBB if it was feasible or populated in this day and age, but unfortunately, I have to make do with what the masses have elected as "the new format".
I am literally translating chinese posts with one click, this is posting heaven. Hexbear can be a little fun sometimes but it's just goofiness, dooming, or aggregation. It feels like there's something actually happening there. Half the time I translate chinese and it works PERFECTLY now (maybe the guy hosting me is using deepl pro or something else idk) I just learned way more than i knew there was to learn about the discovery that tea poured into milk turns out differently than milk into tea
I feel like I missed something, what platform or instance is this that supports automatic translation? That sounds like an incredibly useful feature.
mastodon and misskey and their forks do this, not every server uses the same translation service or even provides it. it loads almost instantly underneath the original text with one tap. yes, i am serious, chinese that is written in non-shitpostese translates immaculately. we are living in the future. oh, you didn't know there are chinese shitposters on the federations? :3
That sort of machine translation is something that I've always wanted from Lemmy, since I am very interested in the idea of writing more posts and comments in languages other than English, but I also feel like most people wouldn't want to bother copy-pasting the comment into a translator. But if on Mastodon or Misskey it's just one click to translate, and it loads instantaneously, then... Well, it gets me curious, even though I've never been the type for microblogging, regardless of character limits.
Hexbear itself doesn't even let people select a language other than English when writing comments, which has always bothered me.
Piping jlai and other foreign language posts into Mastodon etcetera is preferable to me anyways since there are loads of other features like watching threads, actually getting notifications further down a thread from you, muting a thread, filtering posts for files only, or hiding replies from the timeline. But yeah it's worth it for the translation, since you all work with an allowlist thing I'd recommend just using a microblog instance already favored by others here, and ask the admin to set it up to fetch all the posts from some lemmy instances. It doesn't really have a lot of problems except Misskey hardcoded their check for image thing so it fucks up on the Lemmy posts. Might be fixed soon. Lucky I was mainly using Mastodon when I made my whole lemmy relay and rss server combo otherwise I would have run into more issues.
破坏者 翻译 不是每个服务器都使用相同的翻译服务，甚至不是每个服务器都提供翻译服务。只需轻轻一点，它几乎立即加载到原文下方。 :::
这段文字是用DeepL。
Well maybe I'm an insane person, because it turns out I love it now that te charlimits are exploding from 5,000 to 50,000 lol. What was twitter? SMS style 160? Fuck!!
The point is they're all just timelines of posts with replies. No idea why you guys want to click on next page and expand post hundreds of times when you could literally have auto scroll auto refresh and 6 parallel timelines. It's like TweetDeck but free.
Misskey forks are getting into actually usable territory, I would try that before you write off the whole software and posting format. Go look at how the Japanese people on there post, it's insane. Coming back here is like seeing American infrastructure after traveling, complete with people arguing with you about why it should be that way. That being said someone on https://tech.lgbt/ just exposed how bad Msky's code for defederation is lmaooo
Also good to point out the libs technically have us in our containment zone and the creation of mutual containment zones is one of the features of federation. 🤠 But Mastodon and Threads definitely are chonkier. We are creating a network of thousands of websites with hundreds, thousands, tens, even hundreds lf thousands of non-bot non-alt active users, where people are free to speak the truth. I'm not super good at figuring out digital activism strategies anyways, I am a better organizer imho. I am fine at creating online analysis spaces but that's not a proliferating thing. It's a place I work on reading guides and articles with friends.
I'm not saying every space should be about letting everone in, I'm saying there are places on microblogging instances that would play well with you all. There are also blahaj-zone type weirdos to be fair but seems like a minority to me.
I think Hexbear would be fine if it kept the same hyper-restrictive federation but incorporated microblog posts. Not in the terrible way KBIN/MBIN does. Also their userbases are all lemmy.world-core as hell
also I must add you might hate it but it's the only activitypub platform that actually caters to disabled people jnstead of just paying lip service, with alt text and accessibility features rather than adding extra clicking to receive new posts because taking that away would be "too online"
Infrequent poster, but if we're complaining about Hexbear culture is that there are often leaks in personalities here - I among the guilty - that treat socialism, writers, and world events as avenues for self-actualization that put me off.
The socialister-than-thou posts, for its own sake and not when dunking on reactionaries, I mean.
Yes, folks who base their entire personality on one specific brand of socialism based on one book written in 1993 by someone nobody has ever heard of but is apparently THE MOST IMPORTANT SOCIALIST WRITER IN HISTORY are problematic and need to stop
Really? The website just seems like a fanclub for the standard figures of western marxism and then capitalist realism etcetera. You see this same group of french philosophers promoted in almost every western left space from tumblr to twitter to group chats like tg/discord
Is there anything you're thinking of in particular there?
Tagline about the guy who burned a post office in Vietnam
I agree with this take. I've heard from some online commentators that this is a trend that affects social media in general and considerably inhibits collaboration on any project, including leftists trying to discuss building socialism in the current political landscape. Leftists in general should develop a strategy to deal with this phenomenon.
I actually switched instances so I can interact with you lot. You guys have your own culture that's hard to really penetrate when someone isn't one of you.
I chime in when I have something to add or on one of the subjects we agree on, but I'll always feel like I'm walking on eggshells, or, well, I feel like an outsider anyway.
I think the feeling like an outsider thing is pretty normal for any group though. You can just keep posting and commenting and eventually you'll either figure out the parts of the site culture you enjoy and lean into those, or create your own place within it that others enjoy too. This just sounds like normal community experience stuff to me.
I think what really does the best job of explaining why this place is forbidding is the attempts to point out the reasons are met with flat out denials. it's like you've used this thread to reassure yourself that there are no disconcerting answers to your OP question
Getting banned on main is amateur shit you use alts to figure out what the real rules are. Nobody has ever actually enforced their espoused netiquette. The culture here is as toxic as SomethingAwful
I'm generally pretty good about not going too far, but who knows.
I already get accused of being a hexbear alt, I even got banned from one comm for being an a secret hexbear and that always made me feel weird about posting here.
Thanks! It was so weird it felt like I did a thoughtcrime or something
I was scrolling through and on reread realized it sounded like I got banned from a comm here, it was a comm on slrpnk.net
I even got banned from one comm for being an a secret hexbear
gang gang gang
I will add that this experience of having people accuse you of being reactionary for no reason and then getting no response is probably a big driver for "power posters" not wanting to come here but I'd like to add belatedly that it's simply how few posts you actually see on here. It's just like, infosec, lemmygrad which is the same, lemmy, not rly much to see
And then you run the risk of people getting extremely confrontational out of nowhere and deciding you're a fascist because they only see Lemmy posts and their context has become reddit... idk what is an appeal of posting here?
can you name any reason why power posters SHOULD eschew the benefits of better software and wider community?
Honestly, I don't really relate to most of the things people are bringing up in this thread.
