Funnier fact, there's a litteral wikipedia page relating to Al-qaeda activity in Xinjiang, using an article from 2015. It's on the page relating to the grey wolves from Turkey, since Uyghurs are a turkic people and thus the pan-turkism includes them.
This is now a China Good thread. I'll start:
The Chinese Land Reform Movement, also known by the Chinese abbreviation Tǔgǎi (土改), was a campaign by the Communist Party leader Mao Zedong during the late phase of the Chinese Civil War and the early People's Republic of China.[1] The campaign involved mass murder of landlords by tenants and land redistribution to the peasantry.[2] The estimated amount of casualties of the movement ranges from hundreds of thousands to millions.[3][4][5] In terms of the communist party's evaluation Zhou Enlai estimated 830,000 had been killed and Mao Zedong estimated as many as 2 to 3 million were killed.[6]
Those who were killed were targeted on the basis of their social class rather than on the basis of their ethnicity; the neologism "classicide" is used to describe the killings.[7] Class-motivated mass killings continued almost throughout the 30 years of social and economic transformation in Maoist China, and by the end of reforms, the landlord class had been largely eliminated from Mainland China or had fled to Taiwan.[8] By 1953, land reform in most parts of mainland China was completed except in Xinjiang, Tibet, Qinghai, and Sichuan. From 1953 onwards, the Communist Party of China began to implement collective ownership of expropriated land through the creation of "Agricultural Production Cooperatives" transferring property rights from the former landlord class to the Chinese state.
Historian Walter Scheidel writes that the violence of the land reform campaign had a significant impact on economic inequality. He gives as an example the village of Zhangzhuangcun, made famous by William Hinton's book Fanshen: In Zhangzhuangcun, in the more thoroughly reformed north of the country, most "landlords" and "rich peasants" had lost all their land and often their lives or had fled. All formerly landless workers had received land, which eliminated this category altogether. As a result, "middling peasants," who now accounted for 90 percent of the village population, owned 90.8 percent of the land, as close to perfect equality as one could possibly hope for.[2]
Are there 16 chapos who believe in the Uyghur genocide? Really?
China not that good and etc, but really?
I hope we have some more anarchists roaming around here. We need some diversity in opinions.
Is term for "too uninformed to have decided on anarchism v. statism, but would be happy to have either"?
I've definitely decided but I know a bunch of the anarchists have fled the site since we have a communist majority.
Ah good. Btw I really like being among all kind of leftists instead of an echo chamber.
For real. This was why I liked the old r/cth. Every other leftist sub was either full AnCom or full ML and that just gets boring
a total echo chamber.
Like how the rest of society is a China bad echo chamber lmaooo
Eh as long as the terminally online dweebs don't decide to split from doing some good work locally over whether or not the CIA is a trustable source then I'm Gucci with 'em
Even vocational schooling like theyre doing is an act of cultural genocide, it is just several magnitudes better than the concentration camps they US is claiming and the US is doing. But it is still an act of genocide.
Folks theyre using war on terror style justifications for what theyre doing. You can support them in their fight against US imperialism and terrorism, and you can push back against western propaganda, but for christ sake.
Good post. It's obviously not a holocaust or something and the numbers are not as high as 100 gorillion like Zenz claims but cultural genocide is still genocide. Klanada did something similar with the indigenous people by "re-educating" children in vocational schools. Nobody is denying that Canada did a cultural genocide there. I'll support China critically against imperialism and propaganda but defending their messed up shit won't get us anywhere. I understand pushing back against China in the west is bad, but I don't think we should uncritically accept whatever these schools are doing if it makes us sound like holocaust deniers.
Except now you're conflating whatever China is doing with the part of genocide of the western powers against indigenous people that involved boarding schools and whatnot, which China is also not doing. I mean I don't have a completely clear understanding of these vocational schools, but I don't think the government is trying to strip people of their identity or religion or anything. It may be some kind of assimilation potentially but I don't think it's "Kill the Indian, save the man." With this argument, you're really just trying to find another way to continue to propagandize against China.
But why defend the situation if we don't know what's happening? It's almost impossible to find the truth about what's actually happening but defending what could be cultural genocide/ assimilation isn't it. Also, the whole suspected terrorists being sent to boarding schools by the state just doesn't sit right. There are ways to push back against propaganda that don't involve defending oppressive policies.
the whole suspected terrorists being sent to boarding schools by the state just doesn’t sit right
This is just you being distrusting of foreign governments and enemies of the US. There is no reason to suspect it's anything else other than what they've stated other than some hunch based on the lies that imperialist governments tell. Your first sentence says "why defend the situation". Your second sentence then directly goes on the attack. Your third sentence digs in even more with "oppressive policies". You're telling me I shouldn't defend them, and then you're attacking without evidence again. So what's it going to be? Defend China from baseless accusations or make baseless accusations. There's never really a middle ground because not providing a counter just reinforces the dominant narrative.
I'm too tired to respond coherently but how is there no middle ground? It seems to me like you're suggesting critical skepticism of minorities being sent away to vocational schools is the same thing as the libs parroting CNN and cheering for sanctions. I want imperialists to leave China alone but I guess you're right, I can't bring myself to trust them on how they handle their anti-terrorism campaigns. We can probably agree that its a helluva lot better than bombing the shit out of people though :amerikkka:
Hell yes. Anyone defending China wrt the Uighurs should have to defend why they think it's better than what "Canada" did to their First Nations with their residential school program.
If you can defend that position, fine, but trivializing these massive oppressive state interventions won't age well. Imagine yourself 50 years down the line and Uighur victims of cultural genocide finally get a voice and describe how the lives of their people were destroyed - do you really want to be the person then who had been cheering for China?
Anyone defending China wrt the Uighurs should have to defend why they think it’s better than what “Canada” did to their First Nations with their residential school program.
For one thing, the Canadian schools forbade the First Nations people from speaking their native language and punished infractions harshly, whereas the Xinjiang schools include the native Uyghur languages in the curriculum.
The most visible sign of protection of Uyghur culture by the government is the government-run bilingual kindergarten schools where children learn Putonghua as well as Uyghur language and culture from a very young age.
A lot of anti-China propaganda is settler colonialist projection. They made similar accusations of cultural genocide against the Soviet Union, because they administrated regions with minority cultures, but they too sought to preserve native cultures in their schools.
What exactly are they doing that is cultural genocide? I have never seen a clear answer that isnt shit like wikipedia claiming that using the majority language of a multiethnic society in schooling is genocidal, which is virtually a universal policy for school systems.
Is "cultural genocide" something from the same realm as "cultural Marxism"? 🤔
What is the term we should use for things like resident schools for first nation children?
This meme is spicy, and therefor good, whether I agree with it or not.
The PRC is doing nothing wrong at the moment besides self protection and peacefully re-educating a population that has been manipulated by the CIA. There is no proof of any illegal or immoral activities being performed by the PRC. Every leftist should spend their time performing anti American activities and supporting the PRC
Sorry if this is kind of a bad question is there proof one way or another to prove or disprove the Uyghur genocide? Sorry I’m a bit of a baby leftist lol
CIA is when you tell someone to log off. The more you tell someone to log off the more of a spook you are.
I would hope that not accepting the U.S State Department's consent manufacturing is something everyone can agree on.
Is the problem wojacks or not accepting the lies about Uyghurs
this is an interesting line of discussion that i hope you guys can actually flesh out a bit more.
is that just due to the standard of living at the time? i'm sure OP is talking about it being better for workers in that the upper class got 86ed, but you're concentrating more on actual individual lifestyles. how long did it take for living standards to rise after mao got rid of the landlords and such?
how long did it take for living standards to rise after mao got rid of the landlords and such?
It depends on which living standards. They eradicated mass opiate addiction, reduced houselessness, reduced food scarcity (by growing less opiates), increased access to health care, etc. All of these were possible with the backwards productive base of China at the time.
Although, widespread scarcity still existed. There was little access to electricity and other public utilities, few machines to assist agriculture, and few means of transportation (trains, cars, etc). These were all problems that could not be solved with China's productive base.
China's attempt to develop their productive base under Mao was a complete disaster. Due to horrible relationships with the CPSU, the Soviet Union did not assist them. And I don't think I need to delve into the failure of the Great Leap Forward.
China's solution to this problem was the Grand Bargain. They offered their massive labor force to the industrialized capitalist West. In exchange, China was given access to western industry, universities, and capital investment.
From this Grand Bargain, China has been able to rapidly increase the standard of living for people in the country, and break from the stagnation that plagued China in the 60's and 70's. Poverty has been eradicated. Workers and peasants have access to luxuries unimaginable 40 years ago: agricultural technology, electricity, public utilities, transportation, etc. More Chinese people support the Communist Party now than ever before
These are huge accomplishments, and a new development in socialist construction. However, there were trade-offs.
- The Chinese bourgeoisie were given a more powerful role in society, because they became the liaison between China and the capitalist West.
- The Chinese bourgeoisie do what the bourgeoisie always do: extract surplus value by any means necessary. This led to well-known cases of worker exploitation, such as the Foxconn and Apple incidences in the mid 00's.
- China had to maintain friendly relationships with the capitalist West, or risk divestment. This ended China's effort to spread revolution to other countries. Instead, they advocate a platform of peaceful co-existence with all existing states.
so it would seem that all they need is another mao style 86in of the upper class and they should be able to maintain self sustainability and transfer into socialism soon then.
If there's the political will, China will be in a better situation than any socialist state in history.
It is possible their bourgeoisie are powerful enough to delay or prevent a full transition to socialism. Although, their bourgeoisie's power comes from their relationship to the capitalist West. The West is in terminal decline, which also hurts the Chinewe bourgeoisie.
lol yeah. "I support modern China because they adopted a more free market and it increased living standards." Sounds pretty liberal to me...
What that comrade is doing when posting is clearly unhealthy and basically a form of self harm right now, the best thing would be to do a temp ban or something to force them to stop. You cant put the onus on other people to not engage or stress someone out when provoked.
I figured I'd only shitpost because I also don't have the energy to do real arguing lol
after bombing muslims, including uighurs, for several centuries, the US conservatives suddenly decided that they care about their plight. did you also believe Saddam had WMDs?
You took the fight here all by yourself, don't complain when you get smacked in return.
Hope you're doing better now comrade? Sometimes it does help to take a step back 👍
