Love seeing how SHOCKED federated folks are at the mere implication of China being better than the US. I feel like if you view the USA from outside a highly myopic lens painted by extreme privilege, there is nothing redeemable about it. Even if the worst theories about China were true, they would be a drop in a bucket compared to how much evidenced misery the US has wrought. But most of the people slinging shit at China rarely care about the folks who are not white in the imperial core.
Liberals on the internet who've never been to China: "Wow, they can't even access Meta (TM) or X (TM). How do they live?
Me, a Chinese person visiting NYC: "Why the fuck is there no cell signal or Aircon in these subway stations? How do these people fucking live like this in the wealthiest city in earth?"
Take a look at how the list of richest people in the world changed after the collapse of the Soviet Union. It's really quite telling.
Holy shit, she actually says the "means of production" in that clip. More proof that the capitalist class and their flunkies understand Marxist ideas, just with the adjectives reversed.
Oh yeah definitely. The most ghoulish to me are the cold-war CIA agents, who were very well-versed in Marxism, knew the righteousness of our cause, and still did their best to kill every communist they could.
Imagine seeing what China has done for its people and the members for the belt and road initiative and thinking they are worse than the US dedicating even more money to war is better. People literally just lap up all the piss from the oligarch masters.
There are so many instances of the CPC just up and forgiving debt from help they have donated to so many countries that are part of this initiative. No strings attached. The US meanwhile has being doing actual debt trap shit for decades. The information is out there. All you have to do is fucking look instead of regurgitating reddit bullshit some fed posted because that site is astroturfed to shit. China is trying to actually build up the world while the US tries to bomb more of it to rubble.
USA actually has a way to defeat its cold war nemesis without losing a single soldier
🤔🤔🤔🤔
Do the Ukrainian lives not count?
Liberals come over here and say that we're the ones who hate the Ukrainian people, yet it's the US that's shown that it's willing to fight the war down to the last Ukrainian.
Love seeing domino theory from modern day libs lmao
Wonder how US foreign policy has turned out under that particular paranoia. Surely there isn't a massive, hundred year long wake of total destruction and mass murder? I wouldn't know because I've never read books like Killing Hope, Washington Bullets, or The Jakarta Method, but I assume they have something to say on the subject.
If your ideology comes from a person who shares your name, but with a couple of vowels, that actually might be worse tbh.
First of all I'm not a lib
not only are you a lib, you are a turbo lib. if you call yourself a leftist you're just smearing our good name.
This is just the domino theory except "trust me bro, it'll totally happen this time because BBC said so."
I don't think you realize the importance of this war on a global scale.
I don't think you realize how little most of the human population cares about which flavor of white people gets to be in charge of Europe. Also, how many people in Asia, India, Africa, etc would probably prefer Russia to win because at least Russia doesn't have a centuries long history of being absolute dicks to them.
Ukraine was seeking an alliance with Russia before the 2014 coup that installed a more NATO friendly government
You seek an asia-russia alliance. The world seeks the EU-US alliance. If ruzzians occupied your country I doubt you would defend them.
When you say the world, you mean these guys right?
I'm an American and if Russians occupied us I wouldn't notice anything different except more Cyrillic and fewer Marvel movies
No, fewer Marvel movies would be a good thing. I'm saying a Russian occupied America wouldn't be different. In fact they'd probably stop school shootings, so that would be a positive.
The world? You mean anglos, who make up a tiny minority of the world's population.
God I can't wait for the day the African and Asian countries start redrawing the boundaries of Europe and US states. Your liberal whining will be :chefs-kiss:
Noooo you can’t divide my country at this arbitrary parallel we have centuries of tradition and shared history
The world seeks the EU-US alliance.
Yeah that's why 140+ world leaders were gathered in Beijing last week, to seek the EU-US alliance.
The world seeks the EU-US alliance
So, Venus is the "other" world that's pro EU-US?ruzzians
"My rape victim chooses to stay with me! The police are the real bad guys!"
Russia, known for dropping nuclear bombs on hostile powers.
Wait that's not right.
Russia, also know for having hundreds of military bases outside it's territory.
oh wait...
And if Russia takes Ukraine then the rest of the EU is next.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
Wait so if Russia wins the EU won't exist? Does Russia take foreign volunteers?
There are a few glaring problems with this narrative of yours. First, Russia and Ukraine coexisted perfectly fine until the west decided to coup the democratically elected government in Ukraine and install the current regime. Second, is that Russia continues to coexist with its neighbours in the east and it's not invading any of them. It would be far easier for Russia to do that than to push west against NATO.
Finally, Stoltenberg let the cat out of the bag and admitted that the reason the war happened was due to NATO expansion and not because Russia is trying to take over Europe:
If Russia destroys both NATO and the EU I would probably just laugh
That’s what Russia is especially looking for - easy targets.
In that case, Russia needs to have a word with whoever decided Ukraine was an easy target.
It doesn’t take long to realize that imperialism is having a comeback in the 20’s and it must be stopped.
Comeback suggests it went away.
Every $ donated to Ukraine gives them support and a better chance to end the war
Yes, just like every $ donated to Marianne Williamson helps her take one step closer to the presidency. Surely there are no institutional barriers preventing this from every realistically happening. Surely these elections, and the Ukraine war, are not just empty political theater meant to manufacture consent for the oligarch-owned military industrial complex.
The only thing giving money to Ukraine is doing is pissing in the wind.
Commies should focus on their chinese rice farming infrastructure
Why is this an insult? Do you not want people to be fed?
And if Russia takes Ukraine then the rest of the EU is next.
cold war nemesis
I'll support Ukraine 'till its end.
Correction: You support Ukraine being used as a meatshield by the US to fight a proxy war against Russia, Ukrainian people be damned.
You do realize that Russia since almost day 1 has had the opportunity to take Ukraine, right? But keeping paths open lets them bleed NATO.
Nobody said Russia is the USSR.
Then I obviously wouldn't be reading and responding a computer, numbnuts.
The US didn't defeat the USSR. The bourgeoisie in the USSR worked for 3 decades to reassert their dominance and it culminated in the internal dismantling of the USSR. After it was dismantled, Russia brought in the USA to help liberalize the Russian economy. The USA implemented economic shock therapy under the theories of Friedman and that shock therapy killed millions of Russians - a death toll so staggering it was equivalent to a war.
The USA outlasted the USSR. The USA outperformed the liberalized economy of the USSR. But the USSR dismantled itself.
The Russian Federation has no intention of taking and holding Ukraine, let alone taking and holding all of Europe. The RF intends only to prevent the North Atlantic from completing their border fence of nuclear first strike capabilities and neutralizing all of Russia's national security.
BRICS is a far more powerful economic coalition than the North Atlantic. The USA needs to discipline the EU to prevent any of them from switching their allegiance to BRICS, but ultimately BRICS will be inexorable because most of European riches come from their dominance of the Global South. As that dominance breaks down, Europe will be left with very little choice but to choose between the USA and the rest of the world. Individual countries will try to break rank and they will be disciplined for it, but eventually the West will break.
Every $ donated to Ukraine gives them support and a better chance to end the war against Russia
There has never been a point during that conflict where Ukraine ever had a chance against Russia. There is no positive outcome for Ukraine. More money just means more death.
"defeat"
In what world does Ukraine have a chance of actually reclaiming their territory? Even by the most optimistic estimates, Ukraine's recent counteroffensive has lost tens of thousands of soldiers to claim... A rural village.
Libs seething that China is a better country that didn't rely on settler colonialism and imperialism to grow it's power
China is an anathema for liberals because it's a tangible real world demonstration that viable alternatives to liberal ideology are possible. The whole argument for liberalism is premised on the idea that liberalism sucks, but everything else is worse.
Liberals promoted western model as the only viable system going forward ever since USSR dissolved. Any country that deviated from this model was painted as being backwards and a type of country you wouldn't want to live in. Now we're seeing China developing rapidly and going from strength to strength. China doesn't suffer from the economic crashes the west has once every decade, it's continuously improving the standard of living for its people, it coexists peacefully with other countries. It's an example of an alternative model to liberalism that demonstrably produces better outcomes by pretty much every metric. This is why China is such a threat to liberals, it blows apart the argument that nothing better is possible.
They would rather keep living a lie in which they're still the main character and that the world runs on simplistic logic akin to a Marvel movie. The illusion can't be kept up forever with the realities of China slowly dismantling the hegemony, tho tbh it's not like China needs to do much when the US is deleting itself
I feel like even Marvel is way more complex and nuanced and logical than the vast majority of neoliberal's racist capitalist dogma.
Pretty much, and I don't know whether people will ever learn to see past anti-China propaganda in the west, but I've come to realize that the west doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
It's around 20% of the global population, and the rest of the world will simply move on regardless of what the west does at this point. Majority of the world is the side of China and human progress will continue to march on.
I say this as someone who would be happy to advocate for China if I thought they were advocating for a proper socialist alternative to liberalism but sees things (propaganda?) that turn me off.
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the Uyghur genocide: is this just Western propaganda that's totally fabricated? Are there no "reeducation camps" and no ethnic cleansing happening?
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standard anticapitalist takes: landlordism, bourgeoise rule, both things I oppose and seem to be alive and well in China. I see sometimes the State pushes against these forces, but so do European liberals. Walmart couldn't even expand into the EU when they tried due to government regulating their shitty corporate practices so hard (undercutting at a loss to push local businesses out is illegal for example)
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authoritarianism: children being banned from video games. This one hits close to home for me since I spent easily 40-60 hours a week as a kid some weeks playing video games. My childhood would've been vastly different, and I'm still a programmer who is employed by Alphabet so I'm "successful" and wasn't ruined by video games. Is the idea that video games are a cancer that ruin kids and they should be studying instead? That seems dystopian, I made a bunch of longtime friends playing games growing up (10+ years at this point). I had a lot of fun as a kid. That seems important.
Essentially China seems like a European country that also happens to be an authoritarian dictatorship. Arguably better than living in the U.S still, no doubt, but when compared to Europe I think China falls short (but socialism doesn't). Europe/China are both incredibly far from where we need to be. Massive liberal exploitation of the masses occurs in both places.
the Uyghur genocide: is this just Western propaganda that’s totally fabricated? Are there no “reeducation camps” and no ethnic cleansing happening?
Does this look like ethnic cleansing to you?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DABhjZjPJDA&pp=ygUOa2FzaGdhciBJbmRpYW4%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dpmaeIaZM&pp=ygUOa2FzaGdhciBJbmRpYW4%3D
Xinjiang had a terrorism problem. There terrorist attacka happening until 2012. The government's crackdown is in response to that and at worst it can be described as overpolicing. Can you name one person who was confirmed dead in this ethnic cleansing and genocide?
I found YouTube links in your comment. Here are links to the same videos on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Link 1:
Link 2:
I'm just using the international definition of genocide. Not a single person needs to be killed for it to be a genocide, depopulating an ethnicity from a region by destroying birth rates fits the definition too. By the Chinese government's own statistics, birth rates in Hotan and Kashgar fell by 60% from 2015 to 2018. If that was done intentionally, it's genocide.
I think that is really stretching the practicality of the term in order to label something genocide on a technicality based on ideological dogmatism. It is really hard to imagine a genocide where a single person is not killed. Even ignoring that, genocides always lead to a refugee and emigration crisis which also did not happen in the case of the Uyghur.
By the Chinese government’s own statistics, birth rates in Hotan and Kashgar fell by 60% from 2015 to 2018.
Is that enough to determine genocide? What were the birth rates after this drop? Were they in the red, leading to population reduction or stagnation? There are explanations to this drop that are not genocide. For example, ethnic minorities in China have always been lenient targets of China's family planning policies. It is possible that the Uyghur were subjected to stricter family planning post the terrorism crisis for reasons other than genocide.
Many of the "china-watchers", like Adrian Zenz, are anti-abortion, white-supremacist christian evangelicals. They view any reduction in birth rates as a genocide, even if that reduction is caused by more access to birth control. Birth rates in liberal countries, especially in countries like France, Japan, South Korea, the UK, are tanking. Do you agree with the birthers that this constitutes a genocide? (they would call it a white genocide).
We also see lower birth rates in countries that have higher economic development in general.
- Uyghur "genocide": complete BS. Vocational training schools (call them "re-education camps" if you wish) did exist because of the severe terrorism problem @ksynwa mentioned. The population of Uyghurs in XInjiang has increased since the anti-terrorism measures were implemented
- Landlordism and bourgeois rule: only exists on local levels. The reason why the bourgeoisie is still allowed to exist in China is because it's a countermeasure against imperialism, but the CPC (whose higher-level members are chosen through bottom-up democratic elections and can be recalled by the voters if they're unsatisfied, unlike any bourgeois "democracy") is in charge and they crack down on bourgeois criminals, including executing billionaires. The bourgeoisie don't own any land whatsoever, it's only leased from the state and can be revoked
- "Authoritarianism": every state is inherently authoritarian. Focusing on the limits on online video games for children (single-player games aren't affected) is an extremely silly reason to denounce a socialist project
I'll have to look into the Uyghur genocide more. Are the figures about 1 million people being put into camps complete bull shit?
Even if the West is exaggerating the number by an order of magnitude, I still doubt there are 100,000 "terrorists" that needed to be put in camps. Why are the kids put into camps? Are they terrorists too?
Chinese government official statistics said birth rates in Hotan and Kashgar fell by 60%. If that was done purposefully, it does fall under the international definition of a genocide (which includes preventing some or all births to depopulate a region).
you'll need to provide some sources for all of those claims, including the government statistics, before I can comment
I think you're dismissing the limits on video games far too fast. Maybe to someone that doesn't engage in that as a hobby it might not seem important, but to people in the space it literally redefines our entire childhood. That's not something to just entirely ignore.
As for bourgeoise rule, there are mega corporations in China. It seems weird to say it only exists on local levels. And even if we just accept that, I don't see how this impacts average workers. Are the workers no longer getting the surplus value of their labor stolen? Do they have proper cooperatives with worker ownership?
My understanding is they essentially just exist with European-style regulations. Decent minimum wage, some labor protections, and the bourgeoise still steal massive amounts of wealth and exploit workers for 40-60 hours a week without any democratic input on workers about working conditions.
The note about landlords not truly owning land is how every liberal state functions. Deeds are handed out by the state and can be revoked (eminent domain). And I would still say landlords are a problem in the U.S, even though the government can just take the land back. Same with China.
I do enjoy video games as a hobby, and as I said, using a proposed limit (IIRC it's optional) on how much time children can spend playing online games to condemn a government as "not socialist" is bizarre. I don't have to agree with every single relatively minor decision made by the CPC (and it is minor, compared to the immense improvement in living standards -- including the eradication of extreme poverty -- for roughly one fifth of the world's population) to support their immensely successful project.
Please read the article "China Has Billionaires".
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And slavery. Don't forget the slavery.
In fact, because of the wording of the 14th amendment, it's still cool. As long as you get locked up for committing a crime first.
Apologies for the minor nitpick since it’s probably a typo, but it’s actually the 13th amendment, which is even worse since that’s the one that supposedly abolished slavery
Mad respect to my comrades taking the time to try to engage and educate the liberals who literally refuse to have a positive thought about China. I've never seen one of them actually read an article or respond to the best points; usually they just find what they perceive is the weakest or most controversial argument and focus on that. Anything to deny the fact that sinophobic bias and believing propaganda is 90% of their reasoning for their shit takes. Still, I'm proud of the people in the community that still actively try to educate. I wish I had that patience anymore.
remember when all those people were screaming outside of their windows during covid lockdown? does PNY still have suicide nets installed on campus? hmmm...can you name a business in america that installs suicide nets for its employees?
"libs refuse to have a positive thought about China"
oh. I'm sorry i thought dehumanizing and slave work conditions were shitty. i must be wrong :(
edit: i was mistaken. my local bakery and grocery store both have suicide nets installed. damn.
remember when all those people were screaming outside of their windows during covid lockdown?
Not sure what this one is about, but China's focus community health during covid, and the sacrifices made by thousands of Chinese medical personell, made it have one of the lowest covid infection and death rates in the world, despite being the likely point of origin.
China: 85 deaths per million
US and UK: ~3,3k per million.
The US lost a million ppl, more than it lost during ww2, sacrificing it's elderly and infirm on the altar of capitalism.
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Source: Our World it Data
does PNY still have suicide nets installed on campus? hmmm...can you name a business in america that installs suicide nets for its employees?
Foxconn is a Taiwanese comapany, and the PRC is of course not immune to worker abuses in it's specialized economic zones. What matters is the government response, which was to quickly address it.
Also noteworthy in a given country is the state of despair and hopelessness among it's population.
Let's compare China to the US, as well as it's liberal neighbors:
country Suicides per 100k China 6.7 USA 14 South Korea 21.2 Japan 12.2 Source: World Health Organization
Also I think someone below addressed your Uyghur question, but let's look at whether the world, and Muslim countries in particular (who would be the recipient of a refugee crisis of a genocide were occuring), think about China's handling of extremist terrorism:
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Interestingly, only the white anglo countries, who've been bombing the ME for decades, believe a genocide is happening. The Muslim (and African, Asian, and Latin American) world disagrees.
How does the US, UK, France, etc treat it's muslim minorities, and ethnic minorities in general? In the US, 1 / 4 black ppl will spend time in prison.
Slavery is fully legal as punishment for a crime. The US currently operates a system of slave labor camps, including at least 54 prison farms involved in agricultural slave labor. Outside of agricultural slavery, Federal Prison Industries operates a multi-billion dollar industry with ~ 52 prison factories , where prisoners produce furniture, clothing, circuit boards, products for the military, computer aided design services, call center support for private companies. 1, 2, 3
In the present day, ICE (U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement), the police tasked with immigration enforcement, operates over 200 prison camps, housing over 31,000 undocumented people deemed "aliens", 20,000 of which have no criminal convictions, in the US system of immigration detention. The camps include forced labor (often with contracts from private companies), poor conditions, lack of rights (since the undocumented aren't considered citizens), and forced deportations, often splitting up families. Detainees are often held for a year without trial, with antiquated court procedures pushing back court dates for months, encouraging many to accept immediate deportation in the hopes of being able to return faster than the court can reach a decision, but forfeiting legal status, in a cruel system of coercion. 1, 2
The US committed a genocide against it's indigenous inhabitants that served as the model for Nazi Germany, and got away with it. They're all incredibly xenophobic with respect to their muslim minorities.
Which country or group of countries, do you think is telling the truth?
Not sure what this one is about
It's about Chinese singing with open windows during lockdown, which totally not racist westerners took for wailing of starving people when they heard it on video. Well, by "took" I mean, news interpreted it for them and they rolled with that, because they're totally not brainwashed.
Liberals Are Here and Mad Af, Lol, Also I Wished all Liberals To have a Fun Trip to the Friendly Wall 😊
Both are integral to their respective economies. That's the thing to understand.
I guess it's not strictly news, but wasn't sure where to put it. With things ramping up in the Middle East, it is kind of world news worthy to note that US is aiming to spend 100 billion to continue fuelling the conflicts in Ukraine and Palestine.
China and US are major players on the world stage. The US funding wars and China funding infrastructure to global transport initiatives are pretty globally impactful things.
US bank rolling the war machine is a tale as old as time*.
*by time I mean liberal time, where history started a few minutes–decades ago.
“Let’s give 100M in aid to Palestine to make sure we don’t look too biased”
We don't want Hamas to get it though so we'd better give the 100M to Israel in escrow to use on I mean for Palestinians.
“We’re placing the aid underneath chairs and forcing 25 Palestinian citizens along with 25 Israelis to play musical chairs for the aid. That makes it most fair”
Dude I hate the US political system. But the US beats the hell out of China any day of the week. Attempting to draw any comparison that suggests the US is acting more irresponsibly than China is insulting at best.
Taiwan. Hong Kong. Tiananmen Sqaure Massacre.
👆 how to say you're a brainwashed idiot without saying you're a brainwashed idiot
Why do you expect every single commenter to come at you with a bunch of sources and a well-prepared response, when you don’t give the same?
Here's the thing... I can automatically discredit everything you say because the stance you're taking. If you're going to simp for something, it's impossible to have a rational discussion.
You love China. I hate the US. I just hate China even more.
I can automatically discredit everything you say
Well obviously that's always on the table, but why come here then?
it’s impossible to have a rational discussion.
I just hate China even more.
Hmmm, makes sense why you can't have a rational discussion then... but then why come here? To troll us? Certainly, you're aware an explicitly pro-AES instance isn't going to be Sinophobic.
Also, I find it funny your cope is that I "love China" because of the CPC bot thing, but maybe you unironically think I'm actually a CPC bot.
Edit: @cheese_weiner@lemm.ee, you’ve been banned from Lemmygrad for trolling, but I was curious if you might have responded and saw you commented.
Your response is laughably easy, so I’ll give an easy answer: China still has billionaires and income inequality. In an ideal world, that wouldn’t be there.
But the US beats the hell out of China any day of the week.
It's true, the US beats the hell out of China in school shootings, and medical debt, racially targeted police brutality, bombing foreign countries, and number of homeless people, and... Oh I could do this for days.
Number of people in prison both as a percent of population and in sheer numbers...
US definitely has a prison problem. Definitely not acting like it's perfect.
But that makes China okay how? Do you even believe the numbers they spread? Covid is a great example of how reliable Chinese figures are.
COVID deaths had some degree of undercounting everywhere. Let’s do the global comparison, shall we? Here’s the ratio of estimated deaths (using figures like excess mortality rate) to report deaths globally:
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Source: Figure 2 from https://www.healthdata.org/research-analysis/diseases-injuries/covid/estimation-total-and-excess-mortality-due-covid-19
At least I don't have a government score rating my contributions to a central power. China is a dystopia.
Listen cheese dick, you want us to send you some research projects so you can deprogram your brain from all the garbage Western propaganda has given you, or do you just want to be mocked and ridiculed?
Please do not insult cheesy phalluses by associating them with these kinds of people.
Maybe I misinterpreted the username. Perhaps I should have said cheesy meat tube
Deprogram me. Let's see it.
Just remember I'm also being "deprogrammed" by the flat earth and anti-vaccine movements as well.
Taiwan. Hong Kong.
What point are you even trying to make here by just saying names of places that are part of China?
The point I'm making is that they're independent territories not owned by China. China continues to censor and murder in attempts to gain more territory. Taiwan is still a sovereign country. Claiming it's not is just factually wrong.
Neither Hong Kong nor Taiwan are independent states. The UN only recognizes one China which is the PRC and Taiwan is part of it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_2758
It looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, quacks like a duck... Well it might be a duck.
I understand definitions are incredibly important for both US and China. According to US and Taiwan, it's a sovereign country. According to China and UN, it's part of China. I would be willing to concede at "It's complicated."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan
I think the Taiwan Strait is further evidence of the "It's complicated" argument.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Strait
According to both the US government and the authorities on Taiwan, Taiwan is a part of China.
The illegitimate regime in Taipei by its own constitution still claims itself to be the legitimate government of all of China. No one recognizes Taiwan as an independent state.
The US officially recognizes the One China Policy. This is the fundamental basis for any diplomatic relations with China. There is no "Taiwan embassy" in the US. The US constantly affirms to China that it does not support "Taiwan independence".
(Also, it doesn't matter what the US thinks about this anyway, the only opinion that matters is that of the Chinese people, including but not limited to the people in China's province of Taiwan)
There is nothing complicated about this. The Taiwan issue is an internal matter for China to resolve. Outside forces have no right to interfere.
Also, i like how you backed off from your claim that Hong Kong is an independent country. Do you admit your ignorance on this issue or are you just trying to sweep an embarrassing mistake under the rug?
By my count you have yet to acknowledge you were either ignorant or lying when you claimed the following things:
- that Hong Kong is an independent territory
- that Taiwan is a sovereign country
- that the US and Taiwan do not recognize Taiwan as part of China
Are you going to admit you were mistaken or will you try to pretend you never said these things after being proven wrong?
Taiwan. Hong Kong.
Hawaii. Puerto Rico.
Massacre
That's not an accurate interpretation of the event at all. Please do some research. I'll give you a link to one of our threads on this to get you started: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/1240721
Copium. They sent literal tanks. Why? Why do you need tanks to handle a peaceful protest?
Because it was not a "peaceful protest". Have you even read the sources provided? The CIA funded "peaceful protesters" attacked and brutally murdered unarmed police sent to keep the peace. The leaders of the protests are on video saying they hoped to provoke a massacre in order to create enough outrage that people would topple the government of the CPC.
It wasn’t a peaceful protest. Please educate yourself first:
https://nitter.net/prolewiki/status/1666492127730098208
Do y'all ever have anything more recent than 1989 in these comparisons? How many people has China bombed in those years versus what the US has done? I remember a ridiculous BBC article claiming the PLA killed 10,000 people at Tiananmen square.
Yeah that would be bad, but the lowest numbers for the Iraq War I've seen have been over 1,000,000 dead. And that's just one war the US has committed in the past 34 years
Fair point. US has definitely killed more non-US citizens than China has killed non-China citizens. I can't honestly pretend the US foreign policy is righteous or even sustainable.
The US has killed more people than China in general, as in it's not an even close to comparison. It's like comparing a scraped knee to bullet in the chest. I wouldn't be surprised if America has killed 10, 20, 50 times more people in the past 40 years.
insulting at best.
If nothing else, I'm glad you feel insulted
dawg listing those three things in the face of shit like Vietnam / Iraq / Afghanistan / Israel is so fucking funny like how do you dipshits not realize how out of proportion that shit is even if we were to go full CIA history on China. You have so little awareness of actual Chinese history that you end up supporting the loser slave holding fascists of the Chinese civil war lmao.
Go read something like Killing Hope and maybe you can avoid moments like this in the future. One of the first chapters is about how the US participated in the Chinese civil war. On the slave holder side of course. The KMT, after it became clear that they were still going to lose even with US support then fled to and established what we now call Taiwan, massacred the indigenous population, and now get the support of clueless libs like yourself who somehow think they are standing for human rights or some shit.
Western journalists on the ground claimed that they saw no bodies or blood in Tiananmen Square minutes after the supposed massacre. I'm sure you have a good explanation for that as well?
The Chinese government never denied that people died that night, but they denied the circumstances described by Western media. It's telling that the perspective told by some student leaders and protestors was not corroborated by Western journalists on the ground. It's even more telling that those same perspectives were not corroborated by other student leaders. Being precise is important. It's just as important when talking about Tiananmen Square as it is when talking about current events in Gaza, for its undeniable that people died and providing an accurate story of what happened is essential for preserving the value of the truth and not allowing the truth to be diminished. Don't tarnish their story by making up bullshit that generates more clicks and more outrage.
The facts tell us that soldiers died in riots before June 4th and that civilians died by gunfire on June 4th. The eyewitness accounts by journalists tell us that it's unlikely that many (if any) people died on Tiananmen Square. The full video of "tank man" shows that the tanks stopped for him and that he was dragged away by other protestors (and certainly wasn't run over by a tank on video).
Specifics are important. I'm not telling you to fully believe the official Chinese government statement on the issue. I don't. In fact, I struggle to think of any official government statement that I'm willing to believe without question. I'm simply telling you to look at facts, to look at video evidence, to look at unbiased third-parties, and to ask yourself what narrative makes the most sense. Then, maybe you'll consider what drew you to your previous conclusion.
An additional point, part of why I never tend to believe what any government claims prima facie is due to the selective nature and sort of lie by omission by such statements. I find such statements not to be false per se, but overwhelmingly lacking and unsatisfying. Much of what they say on first thought is true, but the details are left out and those are the juicy bits I tend to want to know most.
Now THAT'S a lot of copium. There were tanks there. Why bring tanks to peaceful protest?
For fun and enrichment I recommend you go read "How to Hide an Empire" by Daniel Immarwahr.
I'm aware the US isn't a bright, beaming light of righteousness and good-doing. It's a corrupt and evil fuck fest. But it's a billion times better than China.
But it's a billion times better than China
The exact opposite is actually the case.
https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#on-mao-maoism-and-marxism-leninism-maoism-and-the-prc
Civilians died because of you mindless crackers, and it was the heroic police that stopped the murders and riots at the Beijing square.
I gotta say I laughed at a lot of responses. But this was my favorite.
It’s pretty accurate though, but you refuse to look, huh?
Dude I've seen it. The holocaust was also the CIA, right? And every other atrocity on the other side of the Atlantic. Right?
holocaust was also the CIA, right?
Yes, obviously the CIA did it even though they didn't even exist /s
In seriousness though, you do know the Nazis took massive inspiration from the US, and actually thought the US went too far with the one-drop rule, right?
As for the rest, I obviously can't comment on "every other atrocity" but are you really suggesting the US has zero influence on world affairs in the 20th and 21st century?
Do you imply that US should not help Ukrane to defend themselves against Russia?
Are you aware there not one but two previous attempts at negotiations that Ukraine purposedly sabotaged on their own? Are you even aware Merkel literaly admitted the Minsk agreements were merely attempts to buy time and prepare Ukraine for war.
All the more remarkable is her admission that the Minsk agreement served to buy time for Ukraine’s rearmament. “It was clear to all of us that this was a frozen conflict, that the problem had not been solved, but that is precisely what gave Ukraine valuable time,” Merkel told Die Zeit.
Previously, the Minsk agreement, which Merkel signed together with then-French President François Hollande, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and Russian President Vladimir Putin in September 2014, had been portrayed as an effort towards peace that the Russian president had allegedly later thwarted.
Now, Merkel confirms that NATO wanted war from the start but needed time to prepare militarily—an assessment WSWS has long held.
Russia negotiated in good faith while NATO never had any intention of honoring negotiation terms agreed by Ukraine.
Yes quite literaly if NATO stayed the fuck out of Ukraine there wouldn't be any war, literaly once again, they purposedly broke the agreements which were meant to prevent war and de-escalate.
Minsk 1 was in 2014. Then there was a second Minsk agreement in 2015.
Please for the love of god don't parachute into this war as if history began in February 2022 I beg you.
All Russian negotiations rely on the agreement for Ukrane to give up a part of invaded lands. That is not going to happen, especially after Crimea in 2014. Russia has no claim to the lands and any negotiations that require them are a joke.
If Russia is not stopped no agreement will be final, it's all about the ambition to rebuild the Soviet Union and "compromise" won't do it.
Of course NATO will not directly engage in this war (as sad as it is), that would result in WWIII. It is convieniet for NATO nations that the conflict is in Ukrane, but that does not change the fact Ukrane needs and is getting support indirectly, because NATO has an interest in Ukrane winning.
Comparing that to China's "priority" for infrastructure in the original post is at best unfair. And while arms racing in general is not a good thing, the original post lumps that together with support for Ukrane. That is the message I take issue with.
Comparing that to China’s “priority” for infrastructure in the original post is at best unfair. And while arms racing in general is not a good thing, the original post lumps that together with support for Ukrane. That is the message I take issue with.
Okay, that's a fair point.
If Russia is not stopped no agreement will be final, it’s all about the ambition to rebuild the Soviet Union and “compromise” won’t do it.
But what evidence do you have to support this? We have a short and long term history to look at showing NATO going back on their promises, lying, sowing chaos. Russia by comparison has been reliable. Isn't the fair thing then to try to make the compromise survive as long as possible? Because the alternative to compromise is people dying. Even if it's none of your friends, surely you don't want Russians dying either, right?
All Russian negotiations rely on the agreement for Ukrane to give up a part of invaded lands. That is not going to happen, especially after Crimea in 2014. Russia has no claim to the lands and any negotiations that require them are a joke.
What are you even talking about? Seriously what part of terms agreed by Ukraine you didn't understand? Please for the love of god actualy read about the stuff you're commenting before replying, thank you.
Ah yes. The famous Russian good faith and NATO forcing their hand into genocides.
From where any logical and sane person is sitting, only one side commited a historical blunder of actualy admitting to the media that the Donbas war was a "frozen conflict" when in reality there were already peace agreements between both sides.
Go complain to Merkel for making you look bad. You don't have to believe in Russian good faith if you don't want to, all that is necessary is to admit the actual reality of what happened and what was admitted by the west already.
Say, can you tell me why Russia "invaded" Ukraine and not any of its other much weaker neighbors? I bet you think the conflict started in 2022
Of course I dont!
Georgia
Chechinia
Afghanistan
Czechoslovakian Republic got pacified
China
Armenia
Tatarstan
Lithuania
Finland
List goes on
In last 120 years Russia attacked almost every neighbour.
Poland fought with Russia 3 times in the last 120 years.
Will Russia stop at Ukraine?
Pact Ribbentrop Molotov.
Lets stay on topic of Russia invading every single neighboring country throughout history.
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was only made to delay the incoming war, you lying crakkker piece of shit. Britain and France rejected alliances with the Soviet Union and actively supplied Nazi Germany with money, guns, equipment, supplies and actively supported reich-wing movements against Soviet liberation and security forces.
Don't you even fucking dare compare the USSR's delaying pact to industrialize and build up forces to the dozens of agreements that Britain and France actively set up to work alongside and funding the German fascist war machine.
Stay on topic and don't project, crakkker.
Finland was nazi axis. You defend nazis.
Edit: haha of course you have no clue why they attacked ukraine. No geopolitical knowledge at all.
I'm saying why did they attack Ukraine last year (stay on topic please) and not any of its weaker neighbors, which would have been a lot easier
No. The topic is Russia is a warmonger attacking every single neighbour throughout history.
Stay on topic.
Usa has been attacking every single country in the world that's 20x as many. Focus on the real culprit.
Telling all ukrainians to go die in war for the yanks is not "helping them".
giving weapons to nazis trying to extend a completely un-winnable war saves nobody's life
Sending guns to Ukraine to keep this awful war going longer doesn't help anyone defend anyone.
Yes, but also yes. It does prolong the war, but it also helps to save civilians and push back against an aggressor.
How does it help? Explain to me how supporting Ukraine a country that at this point now just forcibly conscripts anyone helps civilians. Have you talked to any Ukrainian women that had to flee from this conflict and that they haven't hear anything about their husbands brothers and fathers? Were those people not civilians? Or are Ukrainian lives just not a thing? I guess it helps if Ukraine has less and less actual civilians because more and more have to get drafted into the army so some assholes can send another thousand poor people to walk across a minefield to get blown up after all if they are in the army they are no longer civilians.
You know who it does help? US military contractors. Ukraine has received 76.8bn USD in 2022 from the USA this isn't counting various loans that I'm sure aren't going to be used against Ukraine to force them to privatize everything and enforce austerity policies. EU countries sent double that 140bn USD
This is in one year from one country, we could end world hunger with a yearly investment of 23bn USD to 40bn USD, this would actually undeniably help save civilians, in fact it would save at least three times as much because the population of ukraine is something under 50mil while the population currently suffering from severe hunger is 150mil.
The only reason why you've been told that this saves civilians and not you know anything else is because again selling weapons is big business and the only way governments can spend money now I guess, so yes lets save those civilians by forcing them at gunpoint to go walk into a minefield so more and more and more and more and more blood can be fed into this another horrifiyng war to fight over imaginary lines because USA liberty guns or whatever wants their stock to go up.
If you truly believe in this shit, I think this is more of an online cheerleading thing for you, you should join up and fight the aggressor and prevent putin from doing a genocide or whatever.
Projection. Always Projection. The western mouthfrothers can only imagine western crimes and then they project that onto nonwesterners. Pathetic losers.
Georgia
Armenia
Finland
Lithuania
Chechnia
Afghanistan
Ukraine
China
Poland 3 times in less than 25 years.
Thats last 120 years. So what projection?
Firstly you are conflating Russia and the USSR. Secondly, just saying names of countries without context amounts to nothing more than a gish gallop. But let's go through point by point:
Georgia
Even a EU commission tasked with investigating the 2008 conflict admitted it was started by Georgia and its US puppet government who attacked and started shelling South Ossetia.
Armenia
What? Wtf are you even talking about? Russia has consistently protected Armenia and put its own peacekeepers' lives on the line to aid the Armenian people. Are you confusing Russia with Azerbaijan/Turkey?
Finland
Nazi ally who went on to participate in the Siege of Leningrad that killed over a million people. Encouraged by the British to reject any and all negotiations with the Soviets that could have averted the Winter War.
Lithuania
Again: what? Are you just pulling random country names out of your ass?
Chechnia
Not a country. Part of Russia. Russia had every right to subdue US backed terrorist separatists.
Afghanistan
The USSR was explicitly asked by the government of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, a Soviet ally and the legitimate government of Afghanistan at the time, to intervene and help them fight the US backed islamist terrorist insurgency.
Ukraine
Russia intervened in an ongoing civil war that had been raging for eight years following a fascist, US backed coup that ousted the democratically elected president. This after every attempt at negotiating a diplomatic solution was rejected by the Kiev regime and its US masters.
Russia acted according to international law and accepted the defensive request of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics which were and still are under attack by Kiev regime forces.
China
Wtf are kind of drugs are you on? We're talking about real history here not alternate reality fantasies.
Poland 3 times
Poland invaded the territories of Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania right after WWI while the newly established Soviet Republics were still embroiled in the Russian civil war against the Whites and expeditionary forces of a dozen imperialist nations who invaded Russia to restore the Tsar's tyranny.
The Soviet forces fought back but due to being stretched thin Poland managed to steal parts of Ukraine and Belarus in violation of the borders set for Poland after WWI.
When the Nazis invaded Poland and the Polish government fled into exile the Polish state ceased to exist. The USSR stepped in to protect the territories of "Eastern Poland" aka the stolen Ukrainian and Byelorussian lands from also being overrun by Nazis.
In doing this they saved millions of people and provided safe haven for countless Jews who would undoubtedly have faced extermination otherwise. The Soviets didn't even fight against Polish forces and no one in the international community at the time recognized this as an invasion.
As for a third time, do you mean to say that the Red Army's liberation of Poland from Nazi occupation was a "Russian invasion"? Are you pro-Nazi?
That's some of the countries usa and its lackeys invaded. Projection, as always.
Oh I don't know, maybe because the same exact thing happened with Crimea. All out war didn't start, but peope died, homes were destroyed and Russia became a little bigger.
I'm gonna ask again: Why the fuck was Obomba and his shriveled sentient fleshlight Joe Bellend in Ukraine?
Spoiler: Crimea took place after the fact.
It helps civilians by conscripting all the civilians into the army I guess
Russia will of course stop out of goodness of their little hearts.
They will not follow up to Poland and Baltics.
Ukraine either loses, or they keep fighting and a whole lot more people die and then they lose. Which is better?
That clearly isn't happening, so Ukrainians have two choices, which is better?
Gone with the Minsk agreements, which Merkel admitted was just to buy time to arm Ukraine
Russia offered multiple chances for peace, but NATO engaged in bad faith.
Surely you’ve heard of this saying: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Why would Russia let themselves get fooled a third time? That’s just stupidity.
The US is the very reason why the war happened in the first place...
Yes. The exact point of this ampliganda.
You can pull up crazy numbers China are pushing for building their Navy and contrast it with EU spending on infrastructure and post-COVID investments.
ah blueanon is still peddling the Uyghur genocide conspiracy theory I see
No you don't understand, Adrian Zenz has that thing that Jim Carrey had in Liar Liar where he can't lie! That's why we have to believe his assertions over all apparent evidence
Man has the divine power to be unable to lie and tries to circumvent it for his career instead of becoming the greatest philosopher and source of truth to ever exist.
A lot of brainwashed commies in here
Edit: Looks like I got all the brainwashed commies upset 🤣
imagine thinking that it's the people who are able to see past the propaganda they're immersed in on daily basis are the ones who are brainwashed 😂
Yeah much more sensible to spend money on killing people rather than improving everyone’s lives.
Infrastructure is communist, which is why the US is spending $100 billion dollars on a single HSR line.
Wait, that's not right.
Some foreigners say that our ideological reform is brainwashing. As I see it, they are correct in what they say. It is washing brains, that’s what it is! This brain of mine was washed to become what it is. After joining the revolution, it was slowly washed, washed for several decades.
What I received before was all bourgeois education, and even some feudal education.
- Mao Zedong
Because the west installed a far right proxy regime in Ukraine that has literal fascists in the government and the military. One has to be utterly ignorant not to be aware of this fact given that it's been widely reported in western media:
- https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
- https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299383810_The_Separatist_War_in_Donbas_A_Violent_Break-up_of_Ukraine
- https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
- https://www.internationalmagz.com/articles/conversation-with-dmitri-kovalevich
- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955
- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329
- https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2021-05-04/ty-article/.premium/ukrainian-official-changes-tune-on-unacceptable-march-honoring-ss-unit/0000017f-e0e2-d7b2-a77f-e3e7ee990000 (https://archive.ph/ckwv4)
- https://www.ft.com/content/7191ec30-9677-423d-873c-e72b64725c2d
- https://consortiumnews.com/2022/12/29/on-the-influence-of-neo-nazism-in-ukraine/
- https://consortiumnews.com/2022/12/29/evidence-of-us-backed-coup-in-kiev/
- https://gordonhahn.com/2015/05/02/ukraines-neo-fascist-right-sector-claims-responsibility-again-for-2-may-2014-terrorist-pogrom/
- http://www.errc.org/news/anti-roma-pogroms-in-ukraine-on-c14-and-tolerating-terror
It was like a month ago that Zelenskyy honored a waffen SS soldier as a hero of Ukraine lol
They glorify Nazi SS collaborators, they have actual Nazis like Azov Battalion, Right Sector, etc in their military, who also use Nazi symbols and imagery, I honestly could go on
You could just look up Stepan Bandera and that'll give you what you need
Can you give us any examples of China honoring members of the Waffen SS?
Dude really cited the Kuomintang as evidence of the current Chinese government being Nazi collaborators. I guess One China policy goes pretty far, huh?
https://www.amazon.com/Germany-Republican-China-William-Kirby/dp/0804712093
http://www.shanghai1937.com/a-chinese-in-the-german-wehrmacht/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China–Nazi_Germany_relations
I am an in absolute awe of the level of historical illiteracy you just demonstrated. What's it like to go through life with absolutely no understanding of the world? Just thinking whatever the news tells you to think. An absolutely smooth, perfectly frictionless brain existing in an informational vacuum.
Did you even read the wikipedia article you linked me? Just the first paragraph should be enough. Here, I'll post it so you don't even have to click the link and I'll also bold the parts of this wikipedia article that you should have read.
Nazi Germany and the Nationalist government of the Republic of China maintained bilateral relations between 1933 and 1941. The Chinese Nationalists sought German military and economic support to help them consolidate control over factional warlords and resist Japanese imperialism. Germany sought raw materials such as tungsten and antimony from China. During the mid-1930s, thousands of Chinese soldiers were trained by German officers and German economic investment made its way into China. However, Joachim von Ribbentrop strongly favored an alliance with Japan over one with China, and starting with the 1935 Anti-Comintern Pact, Germany began to realign its East Asia policy. After Japan invaded China in 1937 and Ribbentrop became Foreign Minister the following year, German aid to China was cut off. In July 1941, Nazi Germany severed relations with Nationalist China and transferred their recognition to the Japanese-controlled Wang Jingwei regime. Nonetheless, China did not officially declare war on the Axis Powers until after the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Surely even in your liberal bubble you should have known that both China and Taiwan both consider themselves as the real China. You couldn't have looked up which was which? For the other links, the amazon book synopsis is in Chinese and plugging it into google translate is hard, so I'll forgive you for not doing that. But why didn't you at least look at the title of the book and see that it mentioned Republican China. That should have tickled a neuron in your brain. The other books is just flat out about the adopted son of Chiang Kai-shek, the leader of Nationalist China. One of the pictures even mentions him being in the post-war Taiwan military.
The rest of your links at least are about the correct China. I'm not going to bother reading them as you obviously just gave me the first six links you found on google without bothering to read them yourself or understand their historical context. I do hope that you read the links that you sent me and come to the correct conclusion that the Taiwan (Republic of China) was a Nazi-collaborationist state and is still friendly with the US to this day. That should put you on the right track to understanding why China (People's Republic of China) is in the right today.
No, you don't understand, when arguing in liberal democracies, the more links you have the more right you are, and the person with the most links to anything wins regardless
.
I am 100% certain you searched for these sources when confronted just now. Because you have not read these. The book you linked with a synopsis in Chinese is not even on topic. What the fuck did you think you had with that one? Thought the Chinese synopsis would add some extra weight but you don't even know what the ROC is? Embarrassing. Like so bad holy shit.
Because they're not idiots. They have no interest in emboldening the US empire and weakening their Russian ally. In a hypothetical scenario where the US win in Ukraines, it is likely that a comprador regime reminiscent of the Yeltzin dictatorship would be installed in Russia which would be a national security disaster for China.
Also, since China is not ruled by idiots, they realise that the Kiev government has no viable way to victory and that prolonging the war doesn't support Ukraine but only leads to more death and destruction.
I'm sure the Ukrainian offensive will start any day now. They just have to kick in the door and the whole rotted structure will collapse.
And then I'm sure the idiots ruling China will collapse the country in the next year. Western media has been saying it's poised to collapse next year for 20 years, but I'm sure they're right this time.
The Global South doesn't support Ukraine. Regardless of what politicians say, it's just good policy to not antagonize the countries for which trade with you is growing in the double digits annually.
https://mronline.org/2022/05/07/russia-and-the-ukraine-crisis-the-eurasian-project-in-conflict-with-the-triad-imperialist-policies/
The current global stage is dominated by the attempt of historical centers of imperialism (the U.S., Western and Central Europe, Japan—hereafter called “the Triad”) to maintain their exclusive control over the planet through a combination of:
- so-called neo-liberal economic globalization policies allowing financial transnational capital of the Triad to decide alone on all issues in their exclusive interests;
- the military control of the planet by the U.S. and its subordinate allies (NATO and Japan) in order to annihilate any attempt by any country not of the Triad to move out from under their yoke.
In that respect all countries of the world not of the Triad are enemies or potential enemies, except those who accept complete submission to the economic and political strategy of the Triad... In that frame Russia is “an enemy.”
After the breakdown of the Soviet system, some people (in Russia in particular) thought that the “West” would not antagonize a “capitalist Russia”—just as Germany and Japan had “lost the war but won the peace.” They forgot that the Western powers supported the reconstruction of the former fascist countries precisely to face the challenge of the independent policies of the Soviet Union. Now, this challenge having disappeared, the target of the Triad is complete submission, to destroy the capacity of Russia to resist.
The current development of the Ukraine tragedy illustrates the reality of the strategic target of the Triad.
The Triad organized in Kiev what ought to be called a “Euro/Nazi putsch.” To achieve their target (separating the historical twin sister nations—the Russian and the Ukrainian), they needed the support of local Nazis.
The rhetoric of the Western medias, claiming that the policies of the Triad aim at promoting democracy, is simply a lie. Nowhere has the Triad promoted democracy. On the contrary these policies have systematically been supporting the most anti-democratic (in some cases “fascist”) local forces. Quasi-fascist in the former Yugoslavia—in Croatia and Kosovo—as well as in the Baltic states and Eastern Europe, Hungary for instance. Eastern Europe has been “integrated” in the European Union not as equal partners, but as “semi-colonies” of major Western and Central European capitalist/imperialist powers. The relation between West and East in the European system is in some degree similar to that which rules the relations between the U.S. and Latin America! In the countries of the South the Triad supported the extreme anti-democratic forces such as, for instance, ultra-reactionary political Islam and, with their complicity, has destroyed societies; the cases of Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya illustrate these targets of the Triad imperialist project.
Therefore the policy of Russia (as developed by the administration of Putin) to resist the project of colonization of Ukraine (and of other countries of the former Soviet Union, in Transcaucasia and Central Asia) must be supported. The Baltic states’ experience should not be repeated. The target of constructing a “Eurasian” community, independent from the Triad and its subordinate European partners, is also to be supported.
My problem with this message is that it's being sent by the same people whose legislators would never decrease defence spending and would spend the bare minimum on infrastructure. In fact, just recently, the House Republicans managed to pass H.R. 4365 with 216 R and 2 D, a 826 Bn USD Defence Budget, which is an increase of 26 Bn since the previous year and 100 Bn more than the year before that.
Yall don't give a fuck about infrastructure or deficit unless somebody else is president.
That's a weird comment? I think Xi Jinping is doing a great job as president. Oh wait, you're thinking of Miguel Bermúdez, my bad, that was silly of me.
This is a weird comment, I think Miguel Bermúdez is doing a great job as president.
Oh ha ha did the post not specifically mention the USA? Did it not talk about the USA spending specifically on supporting Ukraine defence and sovereignty, an issue divided by partisanship? I wonder what temporary president I would be talking about, is it the literal dictator for life Xi Xinping? HMMMM such a mystery I clearly made a mistake lololol. /sarcasm
https://www.quora.com/What-kind-of-democracy-does-the-China-have/answer/Godfree-Roberts?share=0ac8c628&srid=JMzz
You're trying to massage the idea that a leader for life, who can never be removed because no other party can have a seat in their congress, is a functioning democracy? Really? What a hill to die on.
The party can always remove any leader including Xi Jinping if he is no longer performing his role according to the party and the people's expectations. Also, there are numerous (at least eight) other parties represented in the National People's Congress of China other than the CPC. On top of that there is a larger proportion of independents than in the US congress. But this is beside the point because it would still be a democratic system even if there was only one party allowed.
He won with 100%. 2,952 votes present and for.
A dissident in the Chinese congress gets removed with immediate effect.
He is dictator for life.
Tell me you have no idea how China's political system works without telling me you have no idea how China's political system works.
Also, are you going to admit you were wrong when you claimed, quote
"no other party can have a seat in their congress"
or are you just going to sweep that lie or embarrassing admission of ignorance under the rug?
Why are you moving the goalposts? If Xi Jinping has to be periodically confirmed in his position by the representatives of the Chinese people then he is not "dictator for life" then is he? The fact that you cannot imagine a political consensus like that existing over a genuinely successful and popular leader is simply a testament to the dysfunction of your own liberal western political systems.
Furthermore, please show us evidence for this claim:
"A dissident in the Chinese congress gets removed with immediate effect."
Where in China's laws does it say this and when has this ever happened?
LMAO, nice quote who is it from? Even children make better arguments than to make up a statement and claim it's a quote of the other person.
I think the burden of proof would be on you in this case.
Literally you two comments ago:
"You're trying to massage the idea that a leader for life, who can never be removed because no other party can have a seat in their congress, is a functioning democracy? Really? What a hill to die on."
Will you admit you were wrong or will you deny your own words?
Ah right, that's fair, feels odd that you'd quote me further back in response to a newer comment. You know that was literally a week ago?
But no, my point still stands, Xi Jinping cannot be removed from power and his party cannot lose control of congress.
Xi Jinping cannot be removed from power and his party cannot lose control of congress
You are conflating two entirely different things here.
One is whether Xi Jinping can be removed from power, which he absolutely can by the congress and the party choosing not to re-elect him. Whether or not this will happen depends on how well he does his job and when he will become too old to be fit to govern.
Another is whether the Communist Party of China can lose control of congress, something which it can only do if the people lose confidence in their rule. China as a socialist state of course has it enshrined in law that the reins of power will always be held by the Communist Party. That is a good thing.
The Communist Party represents the working class and the working class is in charge under socialism. That is called the dictatorship of the proletariat and it's what socialism is about. Sorry but we are communists here and we are not going to make excuses for liking the fact that communists rule in a communist country.
The approval rating of the CPC government among the Chinese people is over 90% even according to western studies and polls by the way. Why remove a leader and a ruling party when by all metrics they are doing a fantastic job?
Xi Jinping won with 100% of the congressional vote, I'm not conflating anything here.
The CPC is corrupt as fuck, they're not representing the interests of all the districts much less the lower class.
He's a dictator who cannot ever be removed from power.
Let's dissect this. In your original comment, you ascribed an origin to OP, and implied a motivation for them. This is the crux of me making fun of you. OP is extremely unlikely to be from the USA, or make a distinction between the two wings of the bureaucracy making up the regime in power in the USA. Xi Jinping has held his current position for 11 years, Miguel Bermúdez for 4 years. Neither are dictators, because they are leaders of democracies. Hope this was informative.
A leader for life whose party is the singular party in government, sounds like a dictator bro.
It would. Who are you talking about? Xi Jinping? Xi Jinping is not leader for life, he's leader as long as he's re-elected. He's also not the leader of the government, China has a Prime Minister, you doofus. His party is also not the singular party that makes up the government. http://www.cppcc.gov.cn/zxww/2023/01/18/ARTI1674005617470226.shtml
And something you left out is that the party he's from is literally the communist party of China, which means his party's special interest group is the people of China. Which is what democracy is. But a party representing and subservient to the people is a foreign concept to people who live in dictatorial countries and have to choose which powerful aristocrat to align themselves with.
Xi Jinping won reelection with 100% of the vote. 2,952 out of 2,977 congressional votes were present and voted for him which is a 100.00% margin.
Xi Jinping and his singular party removed the term limit for Xi Jinping, meaning as long as his party is in control then he will always be president. For Life.
I really don't, the people who spread this sort of message and take a stand against the USA supporting Ukraine defence and sovereignty are majority Republicans. Theres even top comments on this post talking about "the libs" in a derogatory manner.
You really do.
Republicans want to stop funding Ukraine cause they want war with China. We want them to stop funding Ukraine because it would be the quickest way to end the conflict peacefully.
Republicans are libs too. Libs are anyone who support capitalism and it's ideals.
Lmao Republican voters don't give a f*** about China. They just think Russia is their friend, which makes the largest foreign threat in their eyes China as a fallback.
You must have missed the constant "China bad" propaganda literally playing on every American news network
a decade ago?
Huh, why did this go off all of a sudden?
