I don't know about libertarians, but when I argue about abortion with Christians the thing that seems to get through to them is reminding them that eggs aren't chickens, acorns aren't oak trees, and you can't make a pie out of apple seeds. It seems like the most obvious thing, but all the anti-abortion rhetoric is designed to make them forget that living things transform as they develop.
What it works for me (but probably some other flavor of leftist is gonna crucify me for good reasons) is:
"You are okay with a raped woman having an abortion, right? Then why can't a woman that enjoyed the sex have an abortion? Your problem is the woman enjoying?"
Of course, there are idiots who even oppose abortion in case of rape, which you should just punch them in the face.
To be fair, opposing abortion in case of rape is the most consistent perspective. If the whole idea is that life is sacred from conception, it doesn't make sense to be okay with 'murder' when it's a result of rape. I mean, what babby do?
The majority of Christians I grew up with or met were against abortion in almost all cases. A life-saving abortion might be considered if the child wouldn't survive either way.
The 'gray area' was masturbation and contraceptives. Usually anything that preceded the magical moment of the sperm reaching the egg was sort of okay (but obviously not ideal. why have sex without procreation?!).
While I personally think the argument is silly to begin with (bible doesn't say all that much on the topic), if the starting assumption is that anything after conception is a proper human being, then opposing abortion society-wide makes sense.
Yeah if they allow a rape or incest exception, they're basically saying "pregnancy is punishment for a woman enjoying sex" which isn't so great.
Well in my country that's the thing with the anti choice "if you like the peach, eat the velvet", they look at unwanted pregnancy as a punishment for having unprotected sex/not being on the pill.
Disgusting.
I/You don't think its great, but is there anything within the christian worldview that makes it 'not great' or inconsistent?
The rape or incest exception is the inconsistency, if anything. None of it is super inherent to Christianity, just feelings of moralism imo.
If they are one of those "jUdEo-cHrIsTiAn vAlUeS" idiots, make them read the jewish take on abortion.
Libertarian dialectics:
Thesis: pro-life
Antithesis: pro-choice
Synthesis: Abolish the age of consent
Thesis: Property rights must be enforced
Antithesis: government regulation is anti-free trade
Synthesis: Abolish the age of consent
At least abolition of the age of consent is internally consistent for their ideology. Abolition of abrotion would need to be actively enforced, thereby requiring a government to enforce it.
They're really just religious nuts that want a fascist police state to enforce their morality on an unwilling populace.
Maybe it's a veiled prochoice argument (in a very stupid way) to dunk on the anti choice "libertarians" ("abolish the government having a saying on your uterus") but maybe I'm giving him too much credit.
it sounds like appropriation of leftist language, to be honest. it's like they missed the connection to fucking slavery that undergirds the use of the same language on the left.
It strikes me more as "I'm macho and packing heat! I'm really afraid so I need to threaten you!".
Its the no steppy snek one right?
Never got that one, "don't tread on me" or what you sentient noodle? You'll die?
I first thought he meant abolishing the concept of abortion, making a pro-life argument, but you could be right too or neither of us.
Who knows, maybe both are right. What a mess. Good post :maduro_coffee:
I notice that (as usual) none of these gentlesirs are equipped with a uterus but are happy policing the choices of those that are
they don't even know what they actually believe like the only stance if you actually believe your dumb shit is pro choice as if there is a market for abortion you should be allowed to do it fuck off with this big state controling what women can and can't do absolute imbeciles
