I don't think you can really say it's not comparable when painting black people as more akin to livestock than like, people, was a significant part of the rhetoric on why slavery was permissible. The comparison was directly used to justify slavery, and the logic of industrial capitalist exploitation and extermination is still lurking in agriculture today.
That's not to say that slavery and industrial animal agriculture are literally the same thing, but it's still extremely concerning as we hurtle towards ecofascism.
No. Those are generally rejected in human relations. I'm talking about the relationship humans have to nature. I'm not saying humans should model their behavior off some species or another.
Yes, humans very much evolved as a predator. We have always dominated the weak among us and taken from them without remorse. The history of humanity is one of conquest and violence. There is no other way, embrace this reality.
Modern industrial farming is exactly like hunter gatherer tribes. Human society can never progress past that point and consider moral or ethical points that go beyond the level of someone bashing a rock over someone elses head to steal someone elses dead elk.
You are correct. Cultures which still hunt are just "ooga booga me smash rock." They are incapable of developing a morality or philosophy which incorporates their relationship to prey.
I, as a good abolitionist, always avoid using cotton products and I do my part by shaming others into not using cotton products as well. This will surely end the system of chattel slavery in the South. Consumer choice is surely how systemic change, god forbid revolutionary liberation, occurs. Yes
I, as a good abolitionist, always avoid using cotton products and I do my part by shaming others into not using cotton products as well. This will surely end the system of chattel slavery in the South. Consumer choice is surely how systemic change, god forbid revolutionary liberation, occurs. Yes
@jabrd -
That was very much an actual abolitionist policy. Source.
It cut into cotton farmers sales, which was just terrible.
It also didn't end slavery. Without grounded materialist analysis all of these discussions are just a morality circlejerk rather than a discussion of tactics/organization to pursue the political goal of animal liberation. That's why all the accusations going back and forth are about tone and privilege, there's nothing deeper there to discuss
Yes, yes, I agree. It is better to not take any steps against the machine unless it will fully solve the problem.
In the meantime, we must all accept things as they are and continue to purchase goods and services at a predictable and easily forecasted rate of profit.
Unless you're taking part in some organized political group that's actively pursuing the goal of animal liberation (and if you are, great job) you are taking no steps against the machine yourself. This lifestylism bullshit isn't saving any lives, it's just giving you a morality chub to stroke all over the internet
Animal liberation isn't the top of my political agenda. I take part in local organizations pursuing other goals. If it is your top priority then great, but I hope you're actually doing something about it other than buying the Che Guevara tee shirt equivalent of putting a "my food is grown, not raised" bumper sticker on your car
"eating meat is morally equivalent to slavery" lmao ok
oh no please don't compare slavery of sentient beings and slavery of sentient beings. You're not allowed to compare similar (but not identical) things
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the same? No. Comparable? Yes. Pigs are smarter than 5 year olds, does that make it ok to enslave 5 year olds? What about disabled people?
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Nothing is comparable as long as I can shove my index fingers down my ear hole deep enough that I don't have to hear it.
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Because enslavement of any sentient being is cruel and unnecessary. Is that something you disagree with?
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I don't think you can really say it's not comparable when painting black people as more akin to livestock than like, people, was a significant part of the rhetoric on why slavery was permissible. The comparison was directly used to justify slavery, and the logic of industrial capitalist exploitation and extermination is still lurking in agriculture today.
That's not to say that slavery and industrial animal agriculture are literally the same thing, but it's still extremely concerning as we hurtle towards ecofascism.
only if they are killed humanely
yes that's a thing
i mean, i've seen the omaha child steaks advertising, pretty sure it's humane and besides, children can't feel pain anyway
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Nature is an asshole. Huge CW:
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Do we murder, rape, eat our own children?
Appealing to nature is just lazy, humans aren't part of nature. We live in a society
No. Those are generally rejected in human relations. I'm talking about the relationship humans have to nature. I'm not saying humans should model their behavior off some species or another.
I fucking hate settlers lol
Political ecology would like a word with you
children are my property, therefore i may dispose of them as i please because it doesn't violate NAP
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Yes, humans very much evolved as a predator. We have always dominated the weak among us and taken from them without remorse. The history of humanity is one of conquest and violence. There is no other way, embrace this reality.
:capitalist:
Chapo Vegans 🤝 Nazis
Darwinism & Social Darwinism are the same thing.
TIL, thanks for clearing that one up.
"I'm basically a wolf guys."
Me, discovering the concept of "hunting" on an online Leftist forum:
"Wow, so people just LARP as wolves?"
Modern industrial farming is exactly like hunter gatherer tribes. Human society can never progress past that point and consider moral or ethical points that go beyond the level of someone bashing a rock over someone elses head to steal someone elses dead elk.
This is the racism that just keeps bringing me back to Chapo.
"It's racism to suggest moral and ethical considerations might change as human society changes and our understanding of the world changes with it"
You are correct. Cultures which still hunt are just "ooga booga me smash rock." They are incapable of developing a morality or philosophy which incorporates their relationship to prey.
"Trust me my high powered rifle and camouflage make me just like a natural predator when I'm hunting"
"It's just evolution"
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in what context is slavery ok? Please enlighten me
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a 5 year old's notion of freedom does not extend further than its immediate living conditions, does that make enslaving them ok?
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so you don't mind if I kill them for food?
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I, as a good abolitionist, always avoid using cotton products and I do my part by shaming others into not using cotton products as well. This will surely end the system of chattel slavery in the South. Consumer choice is surely how systemic change, god forbid revolutionary liberation, occurs. Yes
I, a good abolitionist, oppose slavery in theory, but I won't free my own slaves because individual choices don't matter
Don't worry man I released all the pigs and cows I own already
I hope you actually sold them to recoup your losses. It’s only fair.
@jabrd - That was very much an actual abolitionist policy. Source.
It cut into cotton farmers sales, which was just terrible.
:capitalist:
It also didn't end slavery. Without grounded materialist analysis all of these discussions are just a morality circlejerk rather than a discussion of tactics/organization to pursue the political goal of animal liberation. That's why all the accusations going back and forth are about tone and privilege, there's nothing deeper there to discuss
Yes, yes, I agree. It is better to not take any steps against the machine unless it will fully solve the problem.
In the meantime, we must all accept things as they are and continue to purchase goods and services at a predictable and easily forecasted rate of profit.
Unless you're taking part in some organized political group that's actively pursuing the goal of animal liberation (and if you are, great job) you are taking no steps against the machine yourself. This lifestylism bullshit isn't saving any lives, it's just giving you a morality chub to stroke all over the internet
I am assuming you are doing this since you are advocating for it.
Animal liberation isn't the top of my political agenda. I take part in local organizations pursuing other goals. If it is your top priority then great, but I hope you're actually doing something about it other than buying the Che Guevara tee shirt equivalent of putting a "my food is grown, not raised" bumper sticker on your car
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Things don't need to be exactly alike in order to draw comparisons.
:capitalist:
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