I never trapped one or anything. Probably a smarter idea. There are just so many feral cats where I live, it's awful. Then my mean ass pound puppy pitbull kills em. Which, I feel bad about, but it's the outside? Like, how can I police that.
seriously I love my cats but ferals need to be straight up hunted down like it's 18th century England so they don't destroy every other animal in a 5 mile radius.
Killing eliminates the thousands of colonies of TNR ferals across the country. Killing versus TNR is the difference between the amount of feral cats being the same as domesticated cats in this country (current) and no feral cats. Take note from other countries like Australia that do their best to kill them, not sustain them.
at this point it's better to TNR, not cull. with TNR you can control population growth and they keep unfixed cats out of your area. when you cull, new cats constantly move in because other places don't TNR.
I also provide biodegradable toys for my ferals so they have something to play with that's not a living creature. it helps some, but they do still hunt.
This is wrong. Every actual scientist on the issue agrees TNR does not work. Cats hunt for enrichment regardless of being fed and you're letting them continue their full lives hunting birds and other small animals. While people release more cats.
my evidence is obviously anecdotal, but since I started TNR a few years ago, the amount of cats that come to my feeding station has gone down as kittens are removed and given homes. i don't see as many adults walking around.
it does seem to work for my area and it's what all of the groups in the area recommend. idk there's no way I'm killing a cat who didn't ask to be born in this situation.
Anecdotal evidence holds no weight over actual science. These cats are invasive and if you care about saving the environment and all the other animals who didn't ask to be killed by this virus of an animal we introduced you wouldn't feed them and allow them to live out the rest of their lives continuing to kill any small being they can capture just for fun.
it varies from field to field, but in general around the 10 year mark is when the probability that a specific study is likely to be disproven becomes greater than the probability that it's results will hold. in some fields that have lots of attention/researchers or rapidly changing methods/tech, it's much shorter (look at how quickly the scientific evidence on mask effectiveness with airborne virus transmission turned over during corona). scientific shelf-life is real and one of the reasons why consensus among many studies is considered better evidence than individual studies.
I suppose that's fair and more up to date studies are preferred, but to be massively downvoted for linking a study from 2003 feels very strange. That's not a very old study and everything in it is maintained today.
so what, is geocentric theory still valid? science can form the wrong conclusions from the data present at the time. please read the one i linked that is much more recent. it includes this note:
"Nevertheless, it has been suggested that an “information vacuum” exists relative to the innumerable TNR programs carried out across the U.S. over the past 25 years [7] (p. 1). Because robust data from these programs have been scarce, determinations about program impacts have typically been based on anecdotal evidence [7,18,24]."
if they're saying that when this was published in 2017, what does that say about the 2003 one?
the study i linked supports community cat management strategies like TNR, a local cat shelter (no questions asked surrenders = less cats being dumped), and adoption of sociable cats. it does not say TNR is ineffective.
cats can be outside if they're under supervision. it's recommended for behavioral issues. most of mine have no interest, but there's one naughty boy who has a harness and leash for some supervised outdoor playtime. 😁
Yea, we bring our cat out whenever we're out on a leash and harness. It makes him much more tolerable, and we watch him to make sure he doesn't fuck with shit that shouldn't be fucked with.
Their behavior changes. I work in a fragile ecosystem that has a population of feral cats. They don’t respond to humans how strays do. I haven’t see any but apparently they’re vicious and avoid people at all costs.
eh. from experience it depends. my ferals have a range of reactions. I have one I can pick up and handle. if I had room inside I'd let him indoors, but gaining his trust was pretty lengthy.
one who had kittens (they live with me now, except one we found a home for) was super wary of us and now she screams for food when we come outside. can't touch her, but she's comfortable in our presence. both of those two pretty much live on my porch and allow my dogs to sniff them.
I've never seen an aggressive feral cat in the two years I've worked with ferals. scared, yes. but they will choose to run away before attack.
I don't think that's accurately described as a biology change, usually that would indicate some morphological difference. Behavioral changes in any feral animal are of course expected.
Did not know this, I'll look more into that. Is there a term I can search for? "Bigger feral cats" isn't the best track to go down for good results. Thanks
tomcats have some major changes that occur after the typical time a male cat is neutered (they're considered fully grown around 3y/o). their head and neck in particular becomes very thick and they're usually just larger in general because of testosterone.
kittens are typically spayed/neutered anywhere between eight weeks and five months old, well before they have the opportunity to become fully grown.
Eh prey drive (the desire to hunt and kill smaller animals) is different than intra animal aggression. All owners of large powerful dogs have a responsibility to train and manage them appropriately. I wouldn't worry.
That's true, but the scenario where a dog would go after a toy breed is called predatory drift. People are also much less likely to leave their toy breeds roaming around into other people's yards.
Yeah, in some senses it worries me. My original comment may have misrepresented the dog a bit. She interacts with dogs and cats fairly regularly, without fighting. But when she and feral cats fight, it's pretty violent.
I'm not sure if bloodlust would really be the correct word for it, but she certainly has a capacity for violence. Guess every animal does.
Well, yeah, but my rescue doesn't have the biteforce to do much harm. He's just a Lhasa, but even then, when he really had a go at my new dog I didn't want to leave them alone together.
if you let your cat out, people who TNR likely aren't going to know or care if it enters their trap if it's not fixed. accept the free surgery and keep your cat indoors. only take them out while supervised
The local ecosystem is fucking concrete and monoculture grass lawns. If you use your Karen entitlement to touch a member of my family then don't be surprised with what happens next.
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I never trapped one or anything. Probably a smarter idea. There are just so many feral cats where I live, it's awful. Then my mean ass pound puppy pitbull kills em. Which, I feel bad about, but it's the outside? Like, how can I police that.
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seriously I love my cats but ferals need to be straight up hunted down like it's 18th century England so they don't destroy every other animal in a 5 mile radius.
I know someone who bought a raccoon trap just to bring ferals to the feral cat spay and neuter and honestly god bless em.
Spay and neuter is useless. Unless you then keep them indoors you've done almost nothing a released them back to destroy the environment.
If you trap a feral cat, kill it. Invasive cancer to the outdoors.
Spaying prevents 6 cats, killing prevents 7. It's okay dude.
Killing eliminates the thousands of colonies of TNR ferals across the country. Killing versus TNR is the difference between the amount of feral cats being the same as domesticated cats in this country (current) and no feral cats. Take note from other countries like Australia that do their best to kill them, not sustain them.
at this point it's better to TNR, not cull. with TNR you can control population growth and they keep unfixed cats out of your area. when you cull, new cats constantly move in because other places don't TNR.
I also provide biodegradable toys for my ferals so they have something to play with that's not a living creature. it helps some, but they do still hunt.
This is wrong. Every actual scientist on the issue agrees TNR does not work. Cats hunt for enrichment regardless of being fed and you're letting them continue their full lives hunting birds and other small animals. While people release more cats.
my evidence is obviously anecdotal, but since I started TNR a few years ago, the amount of cats that come to my feeding station has gone down as kittens are removed and given homes. i don't see as many adults walking around.
it does seem to work for my area and it's what all of the groups in the area recommend. idk there's no way I'm killing a cat who didn't ask to be born in this situation.
Anecdotal evidence holds no weight over actual science. These cats are invasive and if you care about saving the environment and all the other animals who didn't ask to be killed by this virus of an animal we introduced you wouldn't feed them and allow them to live out the rest of their lives continuing to kill any small being they can capture just for fun.
https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Castillo-and-Clarke-2003-TNR-ineffective-in-controlling-cat-colonies.pdf
link to something that isn't 17 years old at least.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5704110/
17 year old science doesn't suddenly become not science, what?
it varies from field to field, but in general around the 10 year mark is when the probability that a specific study is likely to be disproven becomes greater than the probability that it's results will hold. in some fields that have lots of attention/researchers or rapidly changing methods/tech, it's much shorter (look at how quickly the scientific evidence on mask effectiveness with airborne virus transmission turned over during corona). scientific shelf-life is real and one of the reasons why consensus among many studies is considered better evidence than individual studies.
I suppose that's fair and more up to date studies are preferred, but to be massively downvoted for linking a study from 2003 feels very strange. That's not a very old study and everything in it is maintained today.
Yeah, def shouldn't be downvoted just for that
so what, is geocentric theory still valid? science can form the wrong conclusions from the data present at the time. please read the one i linked that is much more recent. it includes this note:
"Nevertheless, it has been suggested that an “information vacuum” exists relative to the innumerable TNR programs carried out across the U.S. over the past 25 years [7] (p. 1). Because robust data from these programs have been scarce, determinations about program impacts have typically been based on anecdotal evidence [7,18,24]."
if they're saying that when this was published in 2017, what does that say about the 2003 one?
also btw, i'm not downvoting you.
You're here flaunting science and logic then go and say something as stupid as "is geocentric theory still valid"?
These two studies support each other. That's why, the 2003 one is not disproven by later studies. There is nothing wrong with having linked that one.
it was a joke.
the study i linked supports community cat management strategies like TNR, a local cat shelter (no questions asked surrenders = less cats being dumped), and adoption of sociable cats. it does not say TNR is ineffective.
TNR?
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I like rodent populations in metropolitan/urban areas under control, thanks
The fifth pest!
cats can be outside if they're under supervision. it's recommended for behavioral issues. most of mine have no interest, but there's one naughty boy who has a harness and leash for some supervised outdoor playtime. 😁
Yea, we bring our cat out whenever we're out on a leash and harness. It makes him much more tolerable, and we watch him to make sure he doesn't fuck with shit that shouldn't be fucked with.
Explain this please, I'm interested
Their behavior changes. I work in a fragile ecosystem that has a population of feral cats. They don’t respond to humans how strays do. I haven’t see any but apparently they’re vicious and avoid people at all costs.
eh. from experience it depends. my ferals have a range of reactions. I have one I can pick up and handle. if I had room inside I'd let him indoors, but gaining his trust was pretty lengthy.
one who had kittens (they live with me now, except one we found a home for) was super wary of us and now she screams for food when we come outside. can't touch her, but she's comfortable in our presence. both of those two pretty much live on my porch and allow my dogs to sniff them.
I've never seen an aggressive feral cat in the two years I've worked with ferals. scared, yes. but they will choose to run away before attack.
I don't think that's accurately described as a biology change, usually that would indicate some morphological difference. Behavioral changes in any feral animal are of course expected.
Thank you though!
I was imagining killer feral cats with spikes sticking out of their spine or something
They can be double or triple the size of a house cat
Did not know this, I'll look more into that. Is there a term I can search for? "Bigger feral cats" isn't the best track to go down for good results. Thanks
you'll wanna search something like "why are tomcats so big?" since tomcats are the term used for unneutered males.
Nice, thank you!
tomcats have some major changes that occur after the typical time a male cat is neutered (they're considered fully grown around 3y/o). their head and neck in particular becomes very thick and they're usually just larger in general because of testosterone.
kittens are typically spayed/neutered anywhere between eight weeks and five months old, well before they have the opportunity to become fully grown.
Doesn't it worry you that your pitbull has gotten a bit of a bloodlust? Who's to see he doesn't maul someone pet some day?
Eh prey drive (the desire to hunt and kill smaller animals) is different than intra animal aggression. All owners of large powerful dogs have a responsibility to train and manage them appropriately. I wouldn't worry.
A cat is no smaller than a toy dog.
That's true, but the scenario where a dog would go after a toy breed is called predatory drift. People are also much less likely to leave their toy breeds roaming around into other people's yards.
Yeah, in some senses it worries me. My original comment may have misrepresented the dog a bit. She interacts with dogs and cats fairly regularly, without fighting. But when she and feral cats fight, it's pretty violent.
I'm not sure if bloodlust would really be the correct word for it, but she certainly has a capacity for violence. Guess every animal does.
Mutual combat is mutual combat. Let them fight.
Have you ever owned a rescue?
A rescued dog? Yeah. Why?
Then you know how neurotic they can be , and that folks go into it prepared for that.
Well, yeah, but my rescue doesn't have the biteforce to do much harm. He's just a Lhasa, but even then, when he really had a go at my new dog I didn't want to leave them alone together.
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Keep your motherfucking hands off of my family members and I won't have to break your femurs. lmao.
if you let your cat out, people who TNR likely aren't going to know or care if it enters their trap if it's not fixed. accept the free surgery and keep your cat indoors. only take them out while supervised
Keep your murder machine away from the local ecosystem.
The local ecosystem is fucking concrete and monoculture grass lawns. If you use your Karen entitlement to touch a member of my family then don't be surprised with what happens next.
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No matter what justification you give yourself, if you try to kill a member of my family you can 100% find out.
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Oh cute, the guy fantasizing about killing small animals is flipping the script on me.
You're a fucking cop btw
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If you decide my family member deserves to die because he likes to take naps under my fig tree, you're not going to have pronouns at all.
keep your cat indoors
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Stop hurting people to jerk yourself off morally
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Not even a member of your species, let alone family.
Science is real. Keep your ecodestructive pet Within your walls, it's just a cute lil kitty. Outside of them, it's a toxoplasmic homicide rat.
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Holding onto someone's property due to that property killing wildlife that doesn't belong to you won't look good in a police complaint
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Do you think that the police are going to think that far
I mean, really, the people who can't tell a bird and bat apart, you think they're going to process "opportunistic pest"
police are going to say it's a domestic dispute and peace out
Civil dispute, but yeah, this is likely.
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I TNR cats. I'd probably never know if I had trapped someone's pet. they'd get their cat waltzing back in with an ear tip and fresh surgery.
I upvote you to beat back the flood of negative vibes