Is this political? Is it sexual pathology?
No... its about cats.
I'm going to add to this struggle session. I saw two removed posts so went to the modlog to see what they were. One for advocating killing of pets, that makes sense don't be like a cop and kill peoples pets. One for advocating killing of feral cats, I do not agree with this being removed.
Feral cats threaten the survival of over 100 native species in Australia. They have caused the extinction of some ground-dwelling birds and small to medium-sized mammals
You can request baits to kill feral cats. Australia also has issues with wild horses. People studying the effects they have on small mammals get harassed for saying they are destructive, and those people threaten to release more horses.
Invasive species control is important.
Thank you. I fully expected a take like that to be downvoted and am fine with it. It's right and I stand by it as any sane person would for any other invasive species.
Feral cats and stray cats are essentially the same. A feral animal is a domesticated animal released into the wild.
Just as I would advocate for killing a domesticated boar released into the wild (now feral) to wreak havoc I advocate the same for domesticated cats that are feral.
You shouldn't have removed it even if I were saying people should capture and kill invasive stray (now feral) cats, which I was, to be clear.
If you're talking about people's pets though, I would say to return them to the owner or take them to a pound.
One for advocating killing of feral cats, I do not agree with this being removed.
Just noticed the one I posted that said that was removed, what the fuck. Australia does that, it's policy. Advocating for killing any other invasive species here would not be removed.
If I wanted to have arguments that violate no rules be removed I'd be on Reddit.
Australia does that, it’s policy.
There are more things that Australia does, as policy. Most of them are not cool and good. Not saying this is one of those, just that on its own it's not a great argument.
Australia is deeply deeply fucked on a number of counts. But what little we do to protect unique wildlife should be supported.
My pointing out Australia (and several other countries) have a feral cat population control program is not to say "this is right" but "this is valid discussion of actual real world policy and thus should not be removed from discussion".
The chapo hall monitors shouldn't remove it, didn't imply that.
Yeah, no trouble, I was clarifying my meaning with it. Australia is pretty bad environmentally but thankfully this is one thing they're actually doing something about.
Again, not saying the policy makes no sense. Just like there may be things the CIA does that make sense, although I'd be hard-pressed to know of anything.
Exactly, it's only when it's a "pet animal" that people become heated. Despite cats doing far more damage to the environment than white-tailed deer do.
We really fucked America up with all these species brought over.
Most island nations have actually been ecologically broken by introduced invasives. New Zealand is ravaged by it.
Also in Australia populations of Rabbits and Water Buffalo are controlled by introducing infectious diseases.
See control measures column of this table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species_in_Australia#AnimalsI guess raising and releasing horses into the wild is the Australian equivalent of wearing a facemask with a hole cut out of it to own the libs.
Kill all feral cats. My dog is doing his job for his citizenship. Is yours.
One for advocating killing of pets, that makes sense don’t be like a cop and kill peoples pets.
Cops protect private property of slave owners, so by definition you're the cop here and the animal abolitionists are actual John Brown heroes unlike you LARPing radlibs
Invasive species control is important.
Slavery apologist also thinks nazi eugenics is "important", this website is petite bourgeoisie who have the same class interests as any fascist.
Keep your cats inside, fix em, treat them for parasites and you’re good. Leave the rest up to nature. An aside, fuck carpenter bees. Obnoxious pricks.
Not as bad as the China struggle sessions when this site first started out.
Though those had the benefit of the old hot algorithm that specifically promoted struggle sessions and megathreads for days on end.
Edit: Also keep your cats inside or I'll eat them. - Owl
"my neighbor's cat is killing my birds" - the greatest thread in the history of .chat, locked by a moderator after 12,239 pages of heated debate
To be fair, i dont think you guys did? its just a twitter meme lol
First Lindsay Ellis video I ever saw, and I knew from her starting the video with that clip that I'd be hooked.
This argument never works for those people because they already value the lives of the animals the cat is killing so little that they won't change.
A reduction and threat to their own pet's lifespan is chalked up to "nature" and the experience being better for their cat than staying indoors.
China should have learned their shit when they killed all their birds themselves.
hahaha I agree. cats have been one of the longest-running struggle sessions within vegan/animal rights circles too, so when i saw this i just popcorned the whole way through. this fucking cat shit again, i had to laugh
omg yeah, sounds like your roommate was also dealing with his cat-induced dissonance. i took in two strays before i went vegan. but i'm honestly not sure if i'd let another in, once my current furry roomates pass on. i go back and forth on it a lot.
for ethical/environmental vegans cats are seriously problematic since they:
- are often seen as property - so they hit all "the problems with pets" notes;
- must eat meat to be healthy at this point in our pet food technology - so in buying cat food it privileges one life over countless others;
- can be less sociable than other house-friendly animals and when left outside can have intense impacts on their immediate environments - same problem as point 2.
That said (like with all domesticated species), we domesticated them millenia ago, made them reliant on us, dramatically altered their natural habitats, removed them from their natural habitats when we exported them all over the world, and don't have sufficient support programs for them in place to ensure consistent humane treatment and access to necessary healthcare. :cat-com:
Doing the best we can to be responsible and eliminate suffering as far is practical and practicable is all we can aim for at the moment!
My cats were also strays (thrown out and left behind by people who moved out of my apartment building) and it really is hard to say given the choice again in the future that i'd do it any different, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I am very concerned about the obligate carnivore aspect, because it is massively hypocritical of me to care so much for one life over other similarly domesticated animals who suffer immeasurably more than my little furballs do. I seriously can't wait to get lab-grown meat for cruelty-free food options for cats and snakes and other domesticated carnivores who rely on human-provided homes through no fault of their own.
omg heartbreak at the frail one. being so skiddish around you + dirty & frail, it would be really hard for me to ignore these warning signs too. someone at an animal shelter told me that the only way to deal with it is you have to tell yourself they're ok. otherwise, it's too much to bear. the shelter is the most responsible move, good on you for taking the time to do it too.
one of my cats had lots of behavioral problems (especially in the beginning). she's been with me 10 years and has since learned to love attention, getting petted/brushed, and recently is even starting to learn to play with toys and random shit around the house. it's been a remarkable transformation honestly. she went from clear neglect and abuse victim to an attached-at-the-hip cuddly happy cat who won't let me out of her sight for a minute. sometimes when i move too suddenly tho, i can see her flinch painfully hard and i still get sad and try not to think about what she must've went through before coming to live with me.
This is really interesting to me. I similarly just have a vicious pitbull from the pound. I just rationalize her meat eating as: look at her fucking teeth, that animal needs meat. But yeah, she's not exactly natural.
I'm with ya, though. Not sure if I'd do it differently.
yeah it's tough and nothing is easy (no ethical consumption and all that jazz). the good news for your pitbull is that dogs are a bit easier than cats from an ethical food perspective because they are great scavengers and unlike cats are not obligate carnivores. they're closer to people in that you can pretty easily replace some/all of meat they eat with starches and veggies. There is some very early new evidence that dog foods which are both grain-free + vegetarian/vegan might be bad for kidneys long-term, but the general consensus is that similar to people, reducing dogs' meat intake is good for them and better for other animals who would otherwise be bread and killed just for food.
If you don't feel comfortable reducing/replacing your pet's meat consumption, then consider donating to organizations trying to develop animal-free meat options and supporting regulations that allow lab-grown meats in stores. it's lib shit and not as effective as more direct action, but this is pretty much where i'm at with my cats till they pass or better options are available.
No, I'm mostly joking. I just made a comment in the other thread this references about my dog fighting outdoor cats and just kept it going.
Tell your mods not to remove non rule breaking comments that personally offend them.
Like @AlfredNobel said, my comment that directly said trapping and killing feral invasive cats is good was removed by a moderator. Never would that happen for advocating the hunting or trapping of any other invasive species: feral boars, asian carp, nutria, etc.
That's fine, I've been downvoted enough in that thread. But for a mod to go removing comments is shit policy.
Link, if you can even read it still. I can't. https://hexbear.net/post/20124/comment/148022
This is also something to work on, not allowing users to edit comments that have been "removed" by a mod is a real violation of possible privacy concerns if they post identifying info that is somehow locked forever and now uneditable but public in the modlogs.
Telling people to catch feral cats and kill them is no different than telling people to trap mice in their homes or invasive feral boar or feral burmese pythons.
If you think that the subject being a cat changes things, examine your own biases.
(Burmese pythons are invasive but not technically feral since they aren't domesticated. They are a massive problem in Florida, US.)
The problem people have is that they leave nothing else alone when let outside.
All those beings have the same right to live and not be killed as one cat, plus they're not the invasive introduced species.
No, you're not allowed to barbecue with charcoal. I'm going to call animal control and pat myself on the back.
This encouraged me to research my counties local laws on feral cats, only to find out there are none, but I found this interesting article about it: https://www.news24.com/news24/southafrica/local/ud-news/cat-crisis-a-human-created-problem-20190703
Some interesting parts:
Compounding the problem is the continued sterilization of feral cats by organisations and individuals, with a “no kill policy”.
Cats are trapped, sterilized and then released back into the community. Feral cats cannot be successfully contained in kennels as they become traumatised and injure themselves in their efforts to escape.
“Continuing to put more and more feral cats back into the community after they have been sterilized is not a solution to the growing population of cats,” said Swift.
“Realistically this cannot happen. Unfortunately, one must face the reality and choices need to be made. It is in the best interest of the animals that they need to be controlled and unfortunately this means that there are incidents where cats need to be euthanized.
“This might sound as if we do not care, but it is because we care, that these decisions need to be taken. The impact of hundreds of feral cats on the balance of the ecology and environment also needs to be considered. Food resources for natural predators such as owls and raptors are greatly reduced and this threatens their existence,” said Swift.
And before I'm called a cat killer for quoting an expert's opinion (I not even sure if I agree with it tbh).
Residents should also be cautious and not assume that a roaming cat is a feral or stray cat. It might be a domestic cat belonging to someone in the neighbourhood.
When folks I know nueter and release, they sedate the cats before keneling them, specifically so they don't hurt themselves.
I mean I don't have the heart or stomach to neuter or release animals, yet alone euthanasie them. I was just quoting the article
