Fun is for children. Adults must abandon all interests and concern themselves only with working and providing more offspring for the machine.
Adults like toys. It's stupid to pretend they don't. They always have. Boomers build model trains and will literally say how great it is to have grandkids because it "gives them an excuse to buy toys."
It would be more accurate to say adults no longer hide that they enjoy toys.
It's not nostalgic or childish any more then having a dog as an adult because you grew up around dogs. Or still liking chocolate as an adult. You don't become a totally different person, you're just a smarter old kid.
In a related argument to what you're getting at, I hate when people say "it's for kids" or "it's just a kids' show" to excuse something having terrible ideology or even a hazardous takeaway message.
It's arrogant and foolish to dismiss what people experience in their formative years, when their brains are absorbing things faster than they ever will again, and to assume that content simply doesn't matter.
Yes, yes, there isn't a direct causation with a 1-for-1 reliable outcome (I was raised on G.I. Joe for fuck's sake), but assuming there's no influence at all on people over time is, again, arrogant and foolish.
If something is for kids, it must be even better, because kids will absorb it like sponge.
That's how I see it, too.
It actually scares me a bit just how raw and uncontested the capitalist propaganda has become in children's entertainment since :freedom-and-democracy: destroyed most remaining meaningful regulations regarding its content. Sure, I became a leftist, but almost no one else I grew up with did the same. :doomer:
to excuse something having terrible ideology or even a hazardous takeaway message.
yeah the message of kids shows is super important we're talking about what we teach the next generation is good and bad
Fun is for children. Adults must abandon all interests and concern themselves only with working and providing more offspring for the machine.
To that point: toys and playtime have always been socially acceptable things for adults. The catch is the kinds of toys and playtime that is socially acceptable. Hunting or target shooting: acceptable. Laser Tag: man children. Model trains: acceptable. Lego sets: man children.
I do think there's something a bit nefarious and concering in the way capitalism has sort of latched onto nerd culture as a way to sell people their own childhoods back to them but also there is something to be said about letting people have joy and that the concept of viewing people as "manchildren" because they happen to like action figures is sort of gross and rooted in toxic masculinity.
Eh, I interpeted it as "more and more manchildren are buying toys made for children instead of moving on to mature media/toys", but yeah, I'd like to have a plushy of Appa too.
Boomers collected looney toons shit as adults and that was for children. It's nothing new.
instead of moving on to mature media/toys
Like what? Even if there is some boundary between Baby Shark and Gambo, the way Gambo's marketed to kids through trash like Multiversus further blurs that boundary, and I'd contest what "mature" means even then, because it's mostly adolescent-aimed slop.
traditionally middle aged white guys will pick an era of history usually ww2 but not exclusively and start studying it.
I know someone who got super into Dickens etc
duh, you're supposed to spend 15 years and $60,000 restoring a $10,000 car
capitalism robbed your childhood, so you cling desperately to the icons of capitalism that brought you comfort as a child in your soulless adulthood :shrug-outta-hecks:
i dont really blame them i have a giant pillowfort of plushies :comfy: its my cope for being raised in a transphobic environment where i wasnt allowed to have cute things
capitalism robbed your childhood
Remember: Operation Be Normal is still in effect. Let's not try to associate adults buying star wars figurines with leftism.
we are on hexbear, the only normal people here are trans :shrug-outta-hecks:
gotta angst post somewhere idk what the cissies are doing here
Quick, someone convert the "and some, I assume, are good people" quote into being about hexbear and cis people
gotta angst post somewhere idk what the cissies are doing here
IDK, same as you are I suppose.
I mean who cares? If there's a problem here at all it's not individual adults deciding to purchase the treats supposedly meant for kids, it's that any normal avenue for self-actualization has been crushed.
Broke: Peterson 12 Rules for Life
Woke: Belden's rules which include "always become secretary of the interior in a coalition government" and "never say you're gonna shoot someone, just shoot them"
:ypg-brace:
It's also almost a direct quote from The Ugly in the Good, The Bad and The Ugly
Theologically speaking, I'm pretty sure he's a character who shows up in a bunch of parables
Parable of the Rat: teaching against the revolutionary defeatism brought about by naivety and present bias :you-are-a-serf:
Parable of the Interior: teaching the importance of maintaining a materialist view of power :brace-cowboy:
Parable of the Brat: teaching the ennobling power of defiance and the catharsis of confronting evil :brace-dark-cowboy:
Parable of the Anchor: a worked example of unionization :smalls-unflinching:
Parable of the Gourmand: warning against expecting greed to keep itself in check :pete-eat:
No theyre right, theyre talking about a reactionary impulse (formal definition, it's literally fine) and not suggesting it is leftist, just that capitalism causes the reaction
i dont really blame them i have a giant pillowfort of plushies :comfy: its my cope for being raised in a transphobic environment where i wasnt allowed to have cute things
I recently talked about stress relief methods with my therapist and mentioned my blahaj, and she told me another transfemme patient of hers has no less than five of them
:blahaj: :blahaj::blahaj::blahaj::blahaj:
i actually didnt have a blahaj in my plushy pile for the longest time but i caved for the memes :rosa-salute:
I bought mine because of the memes and then realized how much comfort it gives to hug the little guy, the shape and size are pretty much ideal for me lol
now i always watch shark documentaries with him (he's transmasc)
There's no shame as a leftist for at least trying to make the most of capitalism. We're in it now, might as well find something that isn't so bad about it. If it means plushes or scented candles, go for it.
There's a chance I might get a job that will pay be pretty good money soon. This will be my ticket out of my parents, even if I'm forced to live in the midwest, you bet that my apartment decoration will let my freak flag fly and no one can stop me. :sicko-hexbear:
There are video games made for adult audiences just like there are movies made for adult audiences, and there are games and movies for all audiences. I'm not against media nor toys for adults (and I'm not talking about sex toys). But adults who are still heavily stuck in, say, Harry Potter or buying Marvel toys meant for kids from movies meant for kids aren't simply adults who enjoy nostalgic media, some really are manchildren.
I like big ass puzzles, but it would be silly if I kept assembling the same 100 pieces sets meant for children.
It'd be nice if more "mature/adult" entertainment meant something intended to entertain adults with complex ideas or thoughtful premises, instead of :awooga: :libertarian-alert: :hypersus: as it usually means.
Without exception, when someone recommends something to me because it's "mature" or especially if they say it's for "grown-ass" men, it's going to be the aforementioned :awooga: :libertarian-alert: :hypersus: for sure. :lea-why:
I would call, for example "Disco Elysium" a "mature" video game, or at least one that children will probably not get as much as an adult regardless of it having gore and sex/SV references.
You have a point there. Sure, there's some grisly sights and concepts and plenty of swearing and even some sexual themes, but I do agree that Disco Elysium handles the subject matter with an adult level of thought compared to, say, the "mature means rape presented with titillation in the cinematography and/or gory torture spectacles" tendencies of P R E S T I G E T V.
yeah it's weird how mature means awooga, violence and swearwords when those are the exact interests I had when i was 13
You were just a particularly mature 13 year old. The rest of us were just grunting around a pile of rocks, marveling at the occasional cuss bestowed upon us by the mature.
not to brag but I had already learned all the swear words by 6 from my parents yelling them at each other
really is just 'wow i just murdered and tortured and shockjocked for 30 hours of content straight, it really is what we adults are all about'
nah ill just go watch pokemon or something :shocked-pikachu:
Although I'm not through the first season yet, I have to commend Spy X Family for this, a lot of what I seen is really ernest for not just adult media, but anime as well. Anya isn't treated as "haha funny loli, GEDDIT!?!" and is treated like a complex character. Even the first opening shows us Anya's POV and it's really adorable.
But yeah, some of my favorite shows are A:TLA, Gravity Falls, and the Owl House because they can handle some subjects that I wish more adult shows handled. However, this makes them more endearing because they can do it all without swearing or even explicitly stating what they are talking about.
EDIT: Finished my thoughts.
I'm completely ok with people being "manchildren" so long as they're self aware of it and own it.
I actually really hate that people think we should just throw away the imagination and joy of youth after reaching a certain age and I applaud all the people who just don't and are completely self aware of it, in a positive way.
Maybe it's fair to draw a difference between the two? The manchildren never gained self awareness, they didn't grow while maintaining youthful joy, they just didn't grow at all.
By a certain age, you should be able to critique your own interests without having an identity crisis. The real issue is just commodity fetishism. The idea that some geek's childish plastic junk is worse than your cool mature plastic junk is just a smokescreen that I see leftists fall for way too often.
Except there is no imagination. These people don't create new things or even mix old things, they just buy and consume whatever is placed on their plate by the company.
Like, there is a difference between someone who likes Superman, collects the comics and intimately knows the lore, and someone who buys every single Superman themed item for their house. One of them is interested in Superman as a character developed and shaped by writers and editors, the other is only interested in Superman as a brand shaped by company aesthetics. Perhaps if they are into the art, and art history, it could be forgiven, but that is rarely the case in my experience.
The difference is in understanding. And there can still be joy in understanding.
It's not just the hobbies it's the percieved notion that they still have a teenaged worldview and lifestyle
At the risk of sounding like a lib, as the fourth Doctor of Doctor Who said:
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."
I don't even mind if it's all times.
Did you watch the world cup celebrations? Watching the full grown men of the Argentina side jumping around like children in completely childlike glee is something I wish adults could feel comfortable doing all the time. Seeing that really has me thinking about how we emotionally neuter ourselves as adults in a way that is totally unnecessary. I'm not against people holding onto the things they like from childhood, just so long as they also become adults where it really matters.
For me, the cringe line is crossed when people use Harry Potter or Marvel as a frame of reference for real-world politics
Video games are art.
Wait, no, not like that. You can't analyze and critique my treats, no!
Wait, no, not like that. You can’t analyze and critique my treats, no!
it would've helped (maybe 5%) if the people who were doing that early on understood that they were wading into an audience who had absolutely zero media literacy or notion of what media criticism looks like.
the funniest thing about how mad those dorks got about anita sarkeesian will always be that if they had just ignored her kickstarter she would've gotten like $2,000 and most of them would've never heard of her. they absolutely created their own "enemy"
A more popular form of media than movies, at this point. "Video games are for children" was left by the wayside at least a decade ago.
My interest in video games developed as I got older. It changed from "haha I swinga da sword" to thinking about how the music is designed [1]. I like to scrounge around for piano remixes, lofi remixes, orchestral covers, and sometimes a cheeky metal cover of Bloody Tears. I obsess over unused content and enjoy seeing how a beta changes from final release [2]. I like to see how things get censored, what the original intent was, and see if there's a little bit of it that got through. I like to see how speedrunners break the game and their deep understanding of how the game runs and how to console works [3]. I like Kaze Emanuar in particular [4]. I like to see how the fighting game community tries desperately to hold it together despite awful people being everywhere [5]. I spend a fraction of a fraction of the time I used to spend playing video games, but I like to keep up with them.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnUqlRLaKnA
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pt5JXITgos
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpk2tdsPh0A
[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_rzYnXEQlE
[5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdNn68D8n9c
The idea that you're supposed to like different things at different ages was invented so you'd have to buy new shit every few years.
not really, but conceptions of adulthood and childhood have been integrated and reformed by consumer capitalism.
Wasn't the 'teenager' basically invented with the boomers to create a new market demographic?
Yes because there's absolutely no difference between 8 year-olds and 16 year-olds.
Yes because there’s absolutely no difference between 8 year-olds and 15 year-olds.
But also, saying that 16 year-olds not being adults is just a marketing invention is an interesting argument.
They could be children or adults, or even in the processing of one becoming the other (and where the line fell has changed plenty of times), but the idea that distinct stage of life exists between childhood ending and adulthood beginning only coalesced post-WW2.
https://boundlesstheatre.org.uk/we-are-boundless/the-origin-of-the-teenager/
https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2018/02/brief-history-teenagers/
https://blog.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/2020/03/30/birth-of-the-teenager/
This line of thought is what makes me enjoy pursuits like drawing, writing, and piano. You might need some part or replacement piece every once in a while, but it's something you can like as a child, adult, and old abnormality who didn't die in the revolution. In a healthy society, you should always be able to call upon your imagination for entertainment.
Nostalgia as escapism is retreat of hope back into a moment of time when one had tangible and working social connections, networks, and relationships, or the very prospects of those, combined with the moment of experiencing things for the first time where the world was filled with hope and novelty. The modern parlance for this phenomenon can be described as "copium".
The same pleasures as one experiences as a child is deafened as adults. Sweets, video games, physical toys lose their efficacy in stimulating the rush of dopamine as you had as a child. First time you hear a nice song, eat a wonderful candy or meal, open presents on a holiday, or fall in love are like the fulfillment of transcendent meaning, a sorcery of "first experiences" produce emotions unparalleled for the rest of your life; a life that is seared into your very soul.
And then you grow up. Those first experiences have lost their magic, and while we still love those experiences , they have dulled with experience and knowledge that there are more meaningful endeavors we pursue: An identity, a family, a career and community. Ideally, our hedonic past is tempered by search for meaning and value.
Still, it's OK to have fun and enjoy yourself. Playing with toys or video games are reprieve from the stress and repression of life. Even if you build the Legos and have them collect dust afterwith, you still enjoy its presence and iconic moment in your life. Maybe you'll let your nephews play with it. Or give them to your children, or to other children through donations.
The dangers of escapism in this regard are when you substitute them for genuine social interaction, connection, self-improvement, and pursuit of meaning.
Diseases of despair are categorized as self-inflicted mortalities: alcoholism, drug overdose/abuse, and suicide. Usually triggered by worsening material standards of living, but also a society that champions competition, individualism, and conflict. The very antithesis of meaning and connection humanity is based around: solidarity, compassion, justice, and cooperation. In the context of society's grievance against adults who are playing with toys, this is akin to a small fever to highlight the disease of capitalist indifference to problems of housing, wages, wealth distribution, and inflation (unfettered price gouging).
Being a "manchild" is not really about buying and playing with toys, video games, and recreation of childhood indulgences , but forcing the world to cater around your needs at the cost of others and hurting others the way a child would.
There is nothing inherently wrong with liking toys and cartoons and "childish" things as an adult
Arguing about what hobbies are or aren't childish is useless, and it's even more useless when you do it about art. However, I have to say that adults who are really into Disney and especially the parks are very cringe.
Maybe there's a better way to look at it. Like enjoying something for kids is different than enjoying something that projects a childish world view.
Maybe there’s a better way to look at it. Like enjoying something for kids is different than enjoying something that projects a childish world view.
Absolutely. Its not just a question of "Be Normal" or "Let People Enjoy Things" for this entire trend, but it really depends on what theyre buying and using this stuff for.
I want it very very bad. I yearn for that hotel but I also don't know where I would assemble it.
Lego is shifting its marketing because of this cultural perception around toys and "manchildren" and actively promoting products like that to adults.
Yesterday's model railway people have become today's adult Lego people.
I think Lego for adults have been a thing for a while, it occupies a space in-between model rail and big puzzles. I remember the Taj Mahal set was one I saw as a kid that looked really cool but was very expensive.
Yeahhhhhh. They way I rationalize that is that this is plastic that adults intend to keep for their entire lives and that they're starting to use recycled plastic bricks. Still bad though.
I feel like as far as bad plastic things go, the many-times reusable bricks that will last for decades are pretty low on the list
Weren't people bitching about kidults in the Bush years, too? Some things never change, it seems.
Some trends can get more severe or express in different ways. Demographically, more people are economically compelled to move back with their parents in the United States than in any time in living memory, for example. It could be interpreted by as "kidults" blamed for their own predicament or it can be understood through a larger socioeconomic phenomenon but in either case "things never change" isn't very accurate or helpful an interpretation.
I think moving back with your parents can cause some people to regress as well. Especially if their parents treat them like kids
Adults buying comics quietly kept that industry humming along through the 80s into now, which lead to a speculator bubble in the 90s that almost cratered the whole game. Think we'll see something similar in toys?
Adults buying comics quietly kept that industry humming along through the 80s into now, which lead to a speculator bubble in the 90s
where can I read more about this?
Unfortunately, there aren't exactly a lot of books about the Comics Crash of 1996. Most of the history I know is relayed to me through people who were more cognizant of what was happening at the time or stuff I cobbled together from various websites. If you google "Comics Crash 1996" you'll find several breakdowns of what happened.
When I was younger I considered myself a nerd, but nerd culture just ended up becoming culturally dominant because it's easily commodifiable. Sell Super Space Man toys to kids, and then keep selling to them when they're adults.
