this seems less like an intentional act of sabotage and more of an extremely obvious incident of blowback for being incompetent.
I'm also extremely skeptical of anything cominy out of gray zone after their antivax conspiracy theorist spiral.
RT seems to be reporting on it at lesst. Should obviously be something folks consider with a grain of salt.
there are two options:
- a guy in the crown princes family totally owned the CIA with a couple of choice fabrications and promises, and the American Empire needed to desperately save face.
- George HW Bush is the most evil human being to ever hold a position of power and he blew up his own people and millions of others for oil profits in the literal twilight of his life and after being president, really during a period where it material meant nothing to him or his family.
I go back and forth on the issue every single day
blew up his own people
This echoes the atrocity propaganda that America produces about socialist countries. Is it really any more morally evil than blowing up people of other countries? I believe that the stewards of the American Empire simply don't care about the lives of collateral plebeians---regardless of nationality.
During the Iran-Iraq War, Iraq accidentally blew up an American warship and Vice President Bush basically said "no worries", because it was merely incidental to their objectives in the region.
Yeah their biggest concern unironically would be the rich motherfucker that owned the property. And wouldn't you know it? He JUST bought the darn place and this whole goddamn building is filled to the brim with asbestos which needs to be painfully and carefully removed in a lengthy expensive process every single time they want to do any renovations whatsoever to any part of the building.
If only some horrible disaster would knock it all down and his insurance would cut him the fattest check known to man
'During the Iran-Iraq War, Iraq accidentally blew up an American warship and Vice President Bush basically said “no worries”, because it was merely incidental to their objectives in the region.'
What do you mean by this - 'incidental to their objectives in the region'?
Is it really any more morally evil than blowing up people of other countries?
A domestic people are necessarily more vulnerable to a domestic government than a foreign people to that government.
So, its the moral distinction between jumping a random kid in an alley and beating up your kid in their own bedroom. The power dynamic is especially fucked.
the first one makes more sense. I doubt HW was doing shit at that point besides binge drinking and golf.
He was also nearly getting fucking owned by Comrade Pretzel.
I can't keep track of my nepotism anymore, I'm so old now. :failure:
That Pretzel goes down in history with the failed assassination of Hitler.
He also attended investors' conferences, such as the Carlyle Group's meeting with Shafiq bin Laden in lower Manhattan on 2001-09-11.
You never know with that motherfucker. The only reason we know about him and being in Dallas when jfk got got was some dude doing research at cal state san bernardino of all places
Bush doing 9/11 makes him at most marginally more evil. When you have a million black marks to your soul 3000 more means barely anything.
@notthenameiwant can you add "were allegedly CIA recruits"? I don't want to take this down, but I want it to be clear this is from a shaky source and also inconclusive
I'm like 90% certain most or all of this has previously come out, and it was exactly these fuck ups to share information and act on it that lead to the drastic Patriot-Act era re-structuring of US intelligence at all levels from the "This agency does not exist" level down though the CIA, NSA, NRO, the military intel units, on down to state and local police, all to ensure that the intelligence agencies would stop siloing their intel and research and be forced to communicate information and cooperate.
Like it's been known for a long, long time that between them the US intel community had everything they needed to stop 9/11 from happening, but due to inter-agency rivalries and the siloing of information no one person or group had access to all the intelligence that was spread across the whole spookshow.
So after 9/11 they went in and shook up how the intel agencies communicate, created shit like the Joint Fusion Centers that create a direct line from the highest levels of federal intelligence down to county sheriffs and local cops, shit like htat.
I don't know it's too many coincidences to ignore for me. I used to be ambivalent about 9/11 and thought it was just allowed to happen to create pretext for war but shiiiiiiieeeeeeeet
All this? All what you said? NORAD being scheduled to run simulations of plane hijackings that were postponed and rescheduled to instead run on the morning of 9/11? Nah. NAAAAAAAH. I'm now firmly in the camp that it was done on purpose and the American government had some partial level of control and influence over it even happening to begin with.
You know what would be really crazy? If we found out Osama Bin Laden had some connection to the CIA
Bush's baked beans did 9/11
:bean-think: 💥🏢🏢
:joker-laden:
I remember reading that he was involved, but all references to him being part of the plot have been scrubbed from the Wikipedia page. What's hilarious is this edit adding him back in on October 13th, 2022:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Business_Plot&diff=1146416230&oldid=1115813149&diffmode=sourceIn July 2007, a BBC investigation reported that Prescott Bush, father of US President George H. W. Bush and grandfather of then-president George W. Bush, was to have been a "key liaison" between the 1933 Business Plotters and the newly emerged Nazi regime in Germany,[50] although this has been disputed by Jonathan Katz as a misconception caused by a clerical research error.[51]. According to Katz, "Prescott Bush was too involved with the actual Nazis to be involved with something that was so home grown as the business plot."
Here's a Rolling Stone article referencing Katz's book, mentioned in the now-deleted section of the wiki page:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/coup-jan6-fdr-new-deal-business-plot-1276709/The Reddit TIL thread from 2010 is also full of weird nerds coming out of the woodwork to rehabilitate the Bush family.
Edit: To clarify on the bit about the BBC documentary, the way that they lay it out is that Prescott Bush was very clearly in league with the Nazis/German fascists, and had pretty deep business ties to them. I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, but it sounds like they only really mention him in passing a couple of times since there is supposedly "no evidence" linking him to the actual plot, hence the Katz quote. Here's the original page on the BBC site, which looks like you can only get at the audio in RealMedia format:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml...and here's a more current page with a link to the audio in a normal-ass Web player:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007tbs0
Wait-
WAIT-
You can't be serious it can't go that deep what WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A JOKE
What exactly is this court filing? Did some investigator just submit his research to a judge or something?
Obtained by SpyTalk, the filing is a 21-page declaration by Don Canestraro, a lead investigator for the Office of Military Commissions, the legal body overseeing the cases of 9/11 defendants. It summarizes classified government discovery disclosures, and private interviews he conducted with anonymous high-ranking CIA and FBI officials. Many agents who spoke to Canestraro headed up Operation Encore, the Bureau’s aborted, long-running probe into Saudi government connections to the 9/11 attack.
I get that but what exactly does filing it to the court do? Is it meant to launch an official investigation?
I wish I knew. It looks like some of the other associates' cases are still ongoing in a court somewhere (see: 9/11: Khalid Shaikh Mohammad et al. (2) https://www.mc.mil/cases.aspx), I assume it's related to that ongoing charade.
Yeah, the writing on this article seems fairly clunky, but maybe I just need to sit down with it longer.
So it's like the FBI radicalizing muslims to do terror attacks but on a bigger scale?
from what I read in that article, the CIA was potentially trying to flip two of the highjackers over to being assets, but fucked up and just gave them the money they needed to do 9/11.
Also the CIA agents involved with this weren't trained for asset handling, and were fucking around outside the scope of their role / responsibilities.
I skimmed the article though because I'm day drunk so I could be wrong.
most of these goons are horrifyingly incompetent nepo babies who try and spin shit afterwards in their favor. they're not masterminds, they're opportunists and scavengers.
:geordi-no: Bush comically crawled through the air ducts in tower 1 & 2 planting thermite bombs
:geordi-yes: The CIA gave the 9/11 hijackers money to do the attack
I mean hmmmmmm there were multiple separate witnesses who all corroborated that they heard explosions on the ground floor and basement before the tower collapsed when there shouldn't logically be any explosions that far down
I think TrueAnon's series on Dulles or maybe the Kennedy assassinations talks about how the CIA for a big chunk of the cold war was all finance bros and lawyers and generally speaking not throat cutting spies, and that a lot of their successes were due to being able to throw money at grotesque failure after failure until something worked.
The people who would go on to form al-Qaeda were all veterans of the Soviet-Afghan war who had worked closely with the CIA and received weapons, funding, and support from the CIA. So sorta? The Soviet-Afghan war ended in '89, this was barely a decade later. This isn't really new or shocking.
Yeah but now that the Grayzone says it our day drunk moderator finds this fishy
Sad to see people who were on the sub end up like this
Detailing the suspicious actions taken by [CIA Alec Station Chief] Richard Blee and his subordinates before the 9/11 attacks would fill a book, and in fact Kevin Fenton has written that book. Most notably, Fenton documents an explosive series of events which demonstrates Blee’s role in preventing the activities of key 9/11 plotters from being discovered by the FBI or by senior members of the Clinton and Bush administrations. In particular, Blee’s statements to Condoleezza Rice and Richard Clarke are so out of step with what he knew about the activities of certain key al Qaeda members at the time that, clearly, the most plausible conclusion is that Blee intended to mislead them.
Afaik that's par for the course for the pre-9/11 CIA and why reining them in and bringing them back under control of the Executive and Congress has been a recurring theme decade after decade. Back in the old days the CIA was notorious for acting on it's own, using all kinds of criminal fronts to secure it's own funding (very illegally), doing things without informing any of the people who were supposed to be overseeing them.
It's a big part of the reason there was such a big shakeup in how US Intelligence operated post-9/11. They'd finally fucked up in such a huge, obvious, undeniable way that the government both couldn't ignore it and had a sufficient big stick to club them in to submission with.
The Bush Administration defunding and dismantling anti-terror efforts because they were all seen as a "Clinton thing" was written about previously by libs including Al Franken. That checks out.
