According to libs I know, it's actually fine and normal and cool for presidential elections to be suspended during a war, because they should concentrate on winning the war first
I'm pretty far from a lib, but I feel it's a validish argument.
Russia has bombed civilian targets. It would be hard to do responsibly. Not impossible though. Hard doesn't mean they shouldn't.
That would incentivize people like zeilinskiyyyiyyyyyiii to perpetuate this conflict as long as possible. Especially as long as the US is willing to play ball. Zeilinskiyyyiyyyyyiii doesn't care about his people. If he did, he would have taken one of the earlier ceasefire deals, but noooooo!!!! Land is more precious than every single Ukrainian combined.
The absolute most important question that you can put to a people during a war is usually whether that war should keep being fought. Not allowing even electoral opposition to the guy fighting it is massively authoritarian.
I'm going to be charitable and assume you just catastrophically misunderstood the point instead of being intentionally obtuse. I shouldn't be but I will be
Let's say Russia decides to end the war without a treaty today. Do you really believe Elensky will stop martial law and return to holding elections?
Of course not. Either Ukraine will counter-invade into Russia, thus prolonging the war and martial law, or he'll keep the threat of Russia's mere existence as a reason to keep martial law in place - after all, they need to be vigilant about more threats etc etc
I fucking beg of you Lemmytors to fire off a single brain cell once in a while and see if a thought forms
Does saying that kind of shit not feel incredibly pathetic to you? Like do you actually type that out without even a shred of awareness of how deeply unserious you sound? Of course there's always the racist element to the bot accusations, but at this point I'm mostly just curious to know if you realize how goofy it makes you look.
Damn dawg you encountered a logical argument and your only response was an ad hominem. Are you short circuiting? See even if the user was a russian shill
(we aren't)
we're paid by Xi and Langley here. Their guys get paid to watch our guys who get paid to watch their guys who get paid to radicalise the one real user on this website
That doesn't actually discount the argument they're putting forth. You might want to try to actually engage with the argument, makes you seem less deranged.
edit: I personally do get paid in feet picks from Putin, but that's a personal deal he and I have, nothing to do with the site as a whole. Please don't tell Mr. Burns, chief of the CIA aka. my boss
Yes because thats how wars work, very realistic.
Since you're so intent on keeping the meat grinder going, why don't you go volunteer? The average age is 43, they need bodies. Go fight for Ukraine, if you think Ukraine should keep fighting
At the moment that seems up to russia. The war can end tomorrow if they fuck off back to their shithole of a country.
They said no.
What's your next move, Mr. Strategic Mastermind? Another failed counteroffensive?
More working class Ukrainians dead? For what? Fight more so the people in Avdeevka might have 1% chance of paying taxes to Poroshenko instead of Putin? That's it?
Russia has offered reasonable peace terms. Ukraine is to withdraw from the new Russian territories (which even westerners admit they will never win back by force) and never join NATO.
Is that so hard to accept? Why do hundreds of thousands need to die so Ukraine can join NATO?
This is your political analysis: the anti-democracy is legal so it is valid!
PS Ukraine has been an illegitimate government since 2014. Nuland et al were openly talking about installing their own person. You don't even have to read very much to accept this fact.
ANY CRITIQUE OF OUR GLORIOUS ZELENSKY MEANS YOURE A RUSSIAN SHILL WHY DONT YOU LOVE ZELENSKY? DO YOU HATE AMERICA? DO YOU HATE FREEDOM? HOW DARE YOU POINT OUT THAT OUR BASTION OF DEMOCRACY ISNT DEMOCRATIC? DONT YOU KNOW THEYVE WRITTEN IT INTO THEIR CONSTITUTION NOT TO BE A DEMOCRACY? BET YOU FEEL DUMB NOW HUH?
Western libs always say that the war must go on because "that's what the Ukrainian people want."
But how do they even know this? There's no elections and people clearly don't want to be conscripted. (The response rate for conscription letters is very low.)
Even by liberal standards this is bullshit, isn't it?
Recruiters have confiscated passports, taken people from their jobs and, in at least one case, tried to send a mentally disabled person to military training, according to lawyers, activists and Ukrainian men who have been subject to coercive tactics. Videos of soldiers shoving people into cars and holding men against their will in recruiting centers are surfacing with increasing frequency on social media and in local news reports. (NYT)
Is this in the constitution too:
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/1110577439/zelenskyy-has-consolidated-ukraines-tv-outlets-and-dissolved-rival-political-par
Everyone who disagrees with the devastation and massacre of Vietnam is a communist, everyone who disagrees about the devastation and massacre of Iraq is a terrorist, everyone who disagrees with the devastation and massacre of Palestine is Hamas, everyone who disagrees with the devastation and massacre of eastern Ukraine and Russia is a Putinist. It is known.
The Ukrainian constitution forbids holding elections during times of war.
Stop reading shit on reddit and spewing it up in lemmy like you are some kind of expert. You aren't.
Parliamentary (not presidential) elections are canceled during marshal law. There is nothing in the constitution that says a president's term can be extended by being at war.
The Ukrainian Constitution directly prohibits holding any elections under martial law. And even if it did allow them, there are dozens of unsolvable practical and security issues rendering it literally impossible to ensure a fair electoral process in the circumstances of a total war.
There's no need for martial law except in the actual combat zones. They could simply end martial law in the populated regions and hold elections. The "unsolveable" issues are just imaginary - the US managed to hold elections during a Civil War without even the benefit of telegraph.
There's no legitimate excuses.
EDIT:
As of February 2023, аlmost 18% of Ukraine’s territory is under temporary Russian occupation
To ensure ecological safety and to maintain the ecological balance on the territory of Ukraine, to overcome the consequences of the Chornobyl catastrophe - a catastrophe of global scale, and to preserve the gene pool of the Ukrainian people, is the duty of the State.
The irony is that since zelensky is the hardline anti Russia guy, he might still do fine in an election of just the territory they control. The eastern regions that russia has taken would almost certainly vote for more conciliatory politicians than the west of the country. In other words, the part of the country that would be most challenging to poll is also the part that's probably least supportive of zelensky's current policies.
Yup, IMHO he's illegitimate as a leader since his term expired earlier this month. Some democracy.
Their vile dictator who won the last electionvs.Our benevolent president-for-lifeAccording to libs I know, it's actually fine and normal and cool for presidential elections to be suspended during a war, because they should concentrate on winning the war first
The US held one during The Civil War. Imagine that
And Lincoln thought he would lose and actually began preparing a transition plan for handing over power to his opponent.
https://blogs.loc.gov/loc/2014/08/abraham-lincolns-blind-memorandum/
/u/civility
The legend of Cincinnatus had done untold harm to the western brain
Just like Cincinnati Skyline Chili has done untold harm to the Western colon
vile trash that is
I'm pretty far from a lib, but I feel it's a validish argument. Russia has bombed civilian targets. It would be hard to do responsibly. Not impossible though. Hard doesn't mean they shouldn't.
That would incentivize people like zeilinskiyyyiyyyyyiii to perpetuate this conflict as long as possible. Especially as long as the US is willing to play ball. Zeilinskiyyyiyyyyyiii doesn't care about his people. If he did, he would have taken one of the earlier ceasefire deals, but noooooo!!!! Land is more precious than every single Ukrainian combined.
Just have an election, tho?
The absolute most important question that you can put to a people during a war is usually whether that war should keep being fought. Not allowing even electoral opposition to the guy fighting it is massively authoritarian.
The Ukrainian constitution forbids holding elections during times of war.
Is Lemmy full of Russians shills now?
Interesting
I'm sure that incentivizes a swift end to hostilities and to martial law
Removed by mod
I'm going to be charitable and assume you just catastrophically misunderstood the point instead of being intentionally obtuse. I shouldn't be but I will be
Let's say Russia decides to end the war without a treaty today. Do you really believe Elensky will stop martial law and return to holding elections?
Of course not. Either Ukraine will counter-invade into Russia, thus prolonging the war and martial law, or he'll keep the threat of Russia's mere existence as a reason to keep martial law in place - after all, they need to be vigilant about more threats etc etc
I fucking beg of you Lemmytors to fire off a single brain cell once in a while and see if a thought forms
Ok, so you just confirmed you’re a russian shill.
How much are they paying you for this? Do you get paid in worthless rubles or some other currency?
Does saying that kind of shit not feel incredibly pathetic to you? Like do you actually type that out without even a shred of awareness of how deeply unserious you sound? Of course there's always the racist element to the bot accusations, but at this point I'm mostly just curious to know if you realize how goofy it makes you look.
Damn dawg you encountered a logical argument and your only response was an ad hominem. Are you short circuiting? See even if the user was a russian shill
(we aren't)
we're paid by Xi and Langley here. Their guys get paid to watch our guys who get paid to watch their guys who get paid to radicalise the one real user on this website
That doesn't actually discount the argument they're putting forth. You might want to try to actually engage with the argument, makes you seem less deranged.
edit: I personally do get paid in feet picks from Putin, but that's a personal deal he and I have, nothing to do with the site as a whole. Please don't tell Mr. Burns, chief of the CIA aka. my boss
I get paid in uranium and borscht because the sanctions are so effective, tyvm
You just confirmed you have no more than one single brain cell and you aren't even using it
Or you could default to cold war boomer programming, that's cool too.
Yes, everyone who opposes western imperialism are all being paid by the
Judeo BolsheviksRussians to sow doubt and discord inside Our Great Nation.I'm surprised no one has pointed out what an appropriate name this clown has. Goddamn dronies.
Also,
Yes because thats how wars work, very realistic.
Since you're so intent on keeping the meat grinder going, why don't you go volunteer? The average age is 43, they need bodies. Go fight for Ukraine, if you think Ukraine should keep fighting
They said no.
What's your next move, Mr. Strategic Mastermind? Another failed counteroffensive?
More working class Ukrainians dead? For what? Fight more so the people in Avdeevka might have 1% chance of paying taxes to Poroshenko instead of Putin? That's it?
Wow homophobia on top of racism, so progressive of you
At least Putin can draw a clock and isn't committing a genocide
Never say y'all ever the fuck again, I can tell how goddamn white you are without even seeing you so go the fuck back to mayoville you fucking cracker
Russia has offered reasonable peace terms. Ukraine is to withdraw from the new Russian territories (which even westerners admit they will never win back by force) and never join NATO.
Is that so hard to accept? Why do hundreds of thousands need to die so Ukraine can join NATO?
how delicate is your worldview that you feel it so necessary to disregard anyone who disagrees with you?
This is your political analysis: the anti-democracy is legal so it is valid!
PS Ukraine has been an illegitimate government since 2014. Nuland et al were openly talking about installing their own person. You don't even have to read very much to accept this fact.
ANY CRITIQUE OF OUR GLORIOUS ZELENSKY MEANS YOURE A RUSSIAN SHILL WHY DONT YOU LOVE ZELENSKY? DO YOU HATE AMERICA? DO YOU HATE FREEDOM? HOW DARE YOU POINT OUT THAT OUR BASTION OF DEMOCRACY ISNT DEMOCRATIC? DONT YOU KNOW THEYVE WRITTEN IT INTO THEIR CONSTITUTION NOT TO BE A DEMOCRACY? BET YOU FEEL DUMB NOW HUH?
Western libs always say that the war must go on because "that's what the Ukrainian people want."
But how do they even know this? There's no elections and people clearly don't want to be conscripted. (The response rate for conscription letters is very low.)
Even by liberal standards this is bullshit, isn't it?
Is this in the constitution too: https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/1110577439/zelenskyy-has-consolidated-ukraines-tv-outlets-and-dissolved-rival-political-par
Seems like a bad constitution in that case.
Sorry do you mean the fake rag written up for the illegitimate Nazi junta that took over Ukraine via violent revolt in 2014?
Does it also require the dismantling of every leftist party in the country you Nazi apologist dog?
I bet you think "democracy" is the most important issue in the 2024 election don't you? LMAO
Fuck off cracker
Everyone who disagrees with the devastation and massacre of Vietnam is a communist, everyone who disagrees about the devastation and massacre of Iraq is a terrorist, everyone who disagrees with the devastation and massacre of Palestine is Hamas, everyone who disagrees with the devastation and massacre of eastern Ukraine and Russia is a Putinist. It is known.
Stop reading shit on reddit and spewing it up in lemmy like you are some kind of expert. You aren't.
Parliamentary (not presidential) elections are canceled during marshal law. There is nothing in the constitution that says a president's term can be extended by being at war.
that would be a rather large incentive for a president to always be at war
it's me
i'm the russian shills
Constitutionally enshrined dictatorship
Source?
(cw: reactionary source) https://archive.ph/jQx7o
here is an archive of what @BorgDrone@lemmy.one tried to link
those are amerikkkan levels of disengagement
From 81 percent in 2004, 66 percent in 2010 and 59 percent in 2014
Removed by mod
There's no need for martial law except in the actual combat zones. They could simply end martial law in the populated regions and hold elections. The "unsolveable" issues are just imaginary - the US managed to hold elections during a Civil War without even the benefit of telegraph.
There's no legitimate excuses.
EDIT:
IT'S TEMPORARY! IT'S ALL TEMPORARY!!
Must Lemmy be full of Redditors like ye? I hope they bomb Eglin Air Force Base
jfc reddit
Also in Ukraine's constitution:
Very cool. Not fascist at all.
The irony is that since zelensky is the hardline anti Russia guy, he might still do fine in an election of just the territory they control. The eastern regions that russia has taken would almost certainly vote for more conciliatory politicians than the west of the country. In other words, the part of the country that would be most challenging to poll is also the part that's probably least supportive of zelensky's current policies.