• Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    What's the difference between a fascist and an "anarchist" who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

    There's no practical difference, just window dressing. They both cheer on oppression and pain for those suffering under Republicans.

    And don't even get me started on communists. Left and right authoritarians, I've gotten death threats from both of them. Whether it's some leftist telling me I would "get the wall" when the Revolution comes or some fucking Republican telling me that the US was only for Christians and that they'll go after "traitors" soon, you get to the same fucking place at the end of the day. The only real difference is that there's far more Republicans, and they're far more organized than left authoritarians.

    • Dr. Jenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube
      ·
      1 year ago

      bOtH sIdEs

      This is why libs get clowned on so hard. You claim to support "the only viable left leaning political party", and yet you're kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values. Remember, segregation wasn't ended because black people voted, blood was spilt in the streets. Same with the LGBT community, see the stonewall uprising, aka, the first pride parade.

      I don't care how you vote, but if you can't see the difference between an anarchist engaging in direct action against an oppressive state and fascists doing hate crimes; well, I'd say it's time to get off your high horse and do a little introspection.

      • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
        ·
        1 year ago

        yet you're kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values

        Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power. It doesn't matter how many lit memes anarchists and communists share on social media and how much they horn on about "direct action," this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.

        You want me to do some introspection? I did. I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.

        • Dr. Jenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power.

          Spoken like someone who's never done organizing, participated in protests or any other direct action. You're a keyboard warrior who's probably never even interacted with a socialist IRL.

          this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.

          Not a democracy and also I already gave 2 examples showing the contrary.

          I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.

          No need to be a condescending dick. I'm also guessing I'm older than you, not that it's relevant.

          • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
            ·
            1 year ago

            I've participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.

            No need to be a condescending dick.

            If you don't want someone to take offense at what you write, don't smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.

            • Dr. Jenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube
              ·
              1 year ago

              Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.

              Right... I'm not sure why you think I'm not in favor of organized resistance.

              If you don't want someone to take offense at what you write, don't smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.

              You were doing a "both sides" between anarchists and fascists, eerily similar to Trump, while claiming to be "left leaning". I think my response was warranted, if not understated. But frankly, that's plain ignorant.

              • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
                ·
                1 year ago

                Like I said, attempting to degrade the only left leaning political coalition means someone is hostile to any sort of positive left leaning activism. If that doesn't describe a given anarchist, then what I said doesn't apply to them. If it does, then they might as well be a Trumpster.

                • Dr. Jenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Who or what is this sole "left leaning political coalition"? If you're referring to Democrats they are neither left leaning nor a coalition. They are a center-right political party. Coalition implies multiple parties. And the Democratic party isn't exactly known for activism, unless you're counting fundraising events.

                  • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Suuuuuure they're right leaning.

                    And the Democratic party isn't exactly known for activism

                    They're the only hope for getting anything actually done, like the climate change actions taken by Biden. I don't always agree with the Democratic Party, but nobody other than them or Republicans are organized better than a herd of cats or numerous enough to win office, so...

                    • holland@lemmy.ml
                      ·
                      1 year ago

                      hey’re the only hope for getting anything actually done, like the climate change actions taken by Biden.

                      HAHAHAHA....

                      You mean his approving more oil drilling than Trump?

                    • Dr. Jenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube
                      ·
                      1 year ago

                      They're the only hope for getting anything actually done, like the climate change actions taken by Biden.

                      Then we're fucked. Because idk if you've noticed, but the planet is still dying. We are well on our way to passing the point of no return.

                      but nobody other than them or Republicans are organized better than a herd of cats or numerous enough to win office, so...

                      This actually has nothing to do with popularity or ability to organize. Its a problem with how our constitution is written, primarily the fact that we use first passed the post, see Duverger's law.

                      • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
                        ·
                        1 year ago

                        Then we're fucked. Because idk if you've noticed, but the planet is still dying. We are well on our way to passing the point of no return.

                        You're right. What's been done so far won't fully solve the problem. Better undermine support for people trying to get what can be done, done, and then doom all over the Internet.

                        This actually has nothing to do with popularity or ability to organize

                        Nah, even in areas with ranked choice voting, third parties are jokes. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of reforms designed to allow them a more reasonable and equal access to the political levers of power, but the two most significant third parties are the Greens and Libertarians. Neither one is a political force, and not just because of first past the post voting. Niche, ideologically focused parties will always underperform wide coalitions within democracies.

                        • Dr. Jenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube
                          ·
                          1 year ago

                          You're right. What's been done so far won't fully solve the problem. Better undermine support for people trying to get what can be done, done, and then doom all over the Internet.

                          The libs are the ones undermining the progress. It ought to be self evident by now that radical measures need to be taken, and that the markets will not solve the climate crisis, the kind of regulation we need would kill entire sectors of the economy. Even when it comes to moderate improvements, Democrats are obstructed by both the minority opposition and members of their own party (as libs are always quick to remind me).

                          The Democrats will never be able to do what needs to get done. So you undermine the chance for meaningful change when you tell people, "don't worry, Biden is on it, just vote and everything will be fine".

                          Nah, even in areas with ranked choice voting, third parties are jokes. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of reforms designed to allow them a more reasonable and equal access to the political levers of power, but the two most significant third parties are the Greens and Libertarians. Neither one is a political force, and not just because of first past the post voting. Niche, ideologically focused parties will always underperform wide coalitions within democracies.

                          Which areas? Areas in the US? Yeah, hundreds of years of entrenched power at the local, State, and federal level will do that. Would take time and likely ranked choice at the federal level to change.

                          • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
                            ·
                            1 year ago

                            "we just need to kill the economy to save the planet" doesn't seem like a productive way to sell reengineering our economy to lead us towards carbon neutrality, doomer

                            • ElHexo
                              ·
                              edit-2
                              4 months ago

                              deleted by creator

                              • panopticon [comrade/them]
                                ·
                                edit-2
                                1 year ago

                                Someone who believes Biden is the only hope for climate action doesn't need to be calling anyone else a doomer, lmao

                            • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
                              ·
                              1 year ago

                              "Look, I'd love to have a habitable planet, but have you considered the stock market?"

                              If you don't think a global problem that's intertwined with every aspect of the economy might require a similarly far-reaching solution, you aren't taking this seriously.

                            • Flaps [he/him]
                              ·
                              1 year ago

                              As opposed to killing the planet to save the economy lmao

                            • jack [he/him, comrade/them]
                              ·
                              edit-2
                              1 year ago

                              lead us towards carbon neutrality,

                              Jesus Christ even the things you think are the goal are woefully weak and limited. You think "carbon neutrality" will solve climate change? We need massive carbon negativity.

                    • very_poggers_gay [they/them]
                      ·
                      1 year ago

                      the climate change actions taken by Biden

                      Because who else would greenlight controversial pipeline projects that will accelerate the rot of remote ecosystems and the pollution of our atmosphere and waters? Oh right, any other elected official on either side of the Dem / Republican line...

            • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.social
              ·
              1 year ago

              I’ve participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.

              Protests !== organizing. Organizing achieves political change. Protest does not. Leftists know how to organize, liberals do not.

          • socsa@lemmy.ml
            ·
            1 year ago

            This is unnecessary aggro, and you are the only one here making sweeping assumptions.

        • ElHexo
          ·
          edit-2
          4 months ago

          deleted by creator

          • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            They must mean that referendum we had to overturn Roe v. Wade, or the one that got us universal healthcare

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward.

          Did you actually do any studying about socialism during this phase, or is this the "Che Guevara T-Shirt" socialism I've heard so much about?

          • Addfwyn@lemmy.ml
            ·
            1 year ago

            We both know it wasn't even Che Guevara T-Shirt socialism. It was definitely "I think the nordic model is pretty cool" socialism.

        • CyborgMarx [any, any]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power

          The US isn't a democracy, you can't build coalitions with people who want to destroy everything you stand for, direct action got George Floyd justice not votes, and the people you back turned around and decided to fund the police to record levels, it's a war not an electoral campaign

          I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.

          Do you know how to communicate in anything other than thought terminating clichés?

      • socsa@lemmy.ml
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        This is delusional. Direct action absolutely has its place, but all the things you mentioned were ultimately won at the ballot box. As it should be. Don't let a childish revolution fetish blind you to what constitutes a viable framework for lasting progress.

    • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      the only viable left leaning political party in the US

      I vote for Democrats because shit, why not? But what is the worth of a party that:

      • Does not function as a party (single defectors routinely kill major legislation without consequence)
      • Is incapable of countering the rising tide of fascism, or unwilling to do so
      • Has no plan to address the Supreme Court, which will continue to kill anything legitimately good if left unchecked
      • Is too beholden to capital to push even the most tepid climate change legislation (the Green New Deal)
      • Constantly attacks its left flank, preferring to chase the votes of suburban reactionaries
      • Isn't even reliably pro-labor
      • Tailed popular movements on all sorts of civil rights issues
      • Still can't be bothered to even de-schedule marijuana, the most slam-dunk popular policy one could imagine + a huge driver of mass incarceration
      • Is on basically the same page as Republicans with respect to foreign policy
      • Generally offers nothing besides "at least we're not as bad as Republicans, most of the time"

      Where is that party going? It's never going to meaningfully address climate change, it offers only crumbs to the working class, and any social change has to be led from the outside.

    • Awoo [she/her]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

      There is no "viable left leaning political party in the US" lmao. You are a far right country. Both parties are far right. If you were over here in the UK you would all be tories and even then I'm not sure if that's far enough right for the average democrat.

    • RedQuestionAsker2 [he/him, she/her]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Commies and fascists are the same thing because they do the violence. The reasons they do the violence is not relevant.

      I, a good democrat, don't do the violence. Those bodies that keep piling up in other (dirty, evil) countries during Democrat run governments are coincidental. All the funding I give to police departments totally aren't related to the police blasting people in the streets daily. I know this because my ideology is totally not conservative.

    • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      I really want to know what you said before the communist told you that you deserved the wall

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

      If you mean the Democrats (which you must to say ""viable"") you are too lost in the sauce.

      "Come on guys, we should back the Strassers. They aren't perfect but come on!"

    • Addfwyn@lemmy.ml
      ·
      1 year ago

      the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

      I might be misunderstanding you, so I apologize if that is the case, but if you are referring to the Democrats they are far from left leaning. They aren't even center leaning.

      You can't even say they have a better track record than the Republicans. They bomb countries as much (or in recent years even more) than the Republicans. They advocate for wars. They fund ICE even more than the Republicans. They stand up just as much for reproductive rights (read: not at all). They just do all of it while waving a rainbow flag.

      I really hope you meant the Greens or the CPUSA; which have their own issues but are certainly more left than either the Democrats or Republicans.

    • Rozaŭtuno@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      This comment is giving me so much whiplash.

      I was sure it was gonna be ironic when they started comparing anarchists to fascists, but fun fact: no, they actually mean it. Anarchists are fascists, everyone. You've heard it here first!

      I swear, if there's something liberals hate more than what's on their right, it's what's on their left.

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Vibes based politics is endemic among liberals. We try to help them but it's mostly futile.

    • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      The US has two right wing parties. Never mind nationally, I've had Democrat electeds oversee cops "sweeping" encampments just as brutally as any Republican would, what exactly is supposed to be the harm getting reduced here?

    • Facky [he/him,comrade/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      What's the difference between a fascist and an "anarchist" who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

      There's a viable left leaning political party in the US? What is it?

    • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.social
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

      Sorry which party is this? Dems are not even a remotely left-leaning party. Joe Biden literally criminalized the rail workers using their legal right to strike.

      This is also like a children's picture book-level of understanding of fascism. As if the Dems' policy of 4 more years of the status quo could prevent fascism at all. That has literally never worked as a way to combat fascism.

      • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
        ·
        1 year ago

        Joe Biden literally criminalized the rail workers using their legal right to strike.

        And then used his platform and office to force the rail companies to address their concerns. You fucks are so dishonest

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          A bad deal that didn't get close to meeting the unions demands is not "addressing their concerns"

        • CyborgMarx [any, any]
          ·
          1 year ago

          No he fuckin did not, the rank and file wanted 14 days, the rank and file pushed for a strike, which union leadership did not want, the rank and file did not vote to sabotage their striking rights, Biden and the Capitalists wanted 0 days and no strike, the Squad "wanted" 7 days and were willing to sacrifice the right to strike despite knowing perfectly well the 7 days bill would die in the Senate

          4 days is an insulting crumb to incentivize workers from not engaging in unauthorized slowdown measures, sick and tired of you Blue MAGA slugs

    • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      What's the difference between a fascist and an "anarchist" who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

      Left leaning? According to who or what? If you said socially progressive there might be a point here, but the democratic party is no where near left wing. And the social progressiveness only serves to take advantage of those being oppressed in order to win votes. It's hollow, and when people start losing rights (like women and abortion) the Democrats will make 500 excuses about why they can't do anything, instead of actually doing something. The democratic party serves as a ratchet to kill and absorb left wing movements and keep the acceptable discourse within the sphere of economic liberalism.

      I'm begging Americans to read literally anything about their political system from a non American, non Eurocentrist perspective. Begging. I'll start by linking some here.

      The specific combination of factors in the historical formation of U.S. society—dominant “biblical” religious ideology and absence of a workers’ party—has resulted in government by a de facto single party, the party of capital. The two segments that make up this single party share the same fundamental liberalism. Both focus their attention solely on the minority who “participate” in the truncated and powerless democratic life on offer. Each has its supporters in the middle classes, since the working classes seldom vote, and has adapted its language to them. Each encapsulates a conglomerate of segmentary capitalist interests (the “lobbies”) and supporters from various “communities.”

      American democracy is today the advanced model of what I call “low-intensity democracy.” It operates on the basis of a complete separation between the management of political life, grounded on the practice of electoral democracy, and the management of economic life, governed by the laws of capital accumulation. Moreover, this separation is not questioned in any substantial way, but is, rather, part of what is called the general consensus. Yet that separation eliminates all the creative potential found in political democracy. It emasculates the representative institutions (parliaments and others), which are made powerless in the face of the “market” whose dictates must be accepted. Marx thought that the construction of a “pure” capitalism in the United States, without any pre-capitalist antecedent, was an advantage for the socialist struggle. I think, on the contrary, that the devastating effects of this “pure” capitalism are the most serious obstacles imaginable.

      Samir Amin, Revolution From North To South

    • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

      we have one of those? what's the name of the party?

    • HornyOnMain
      ·
      1 year ago

      What's the difference between a fascist and an "anarchist"

      This is

    • space_comrade [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      If the democrats truly are the only viable "left" option then the only reasonable course of action would be to burn the whole state apparatus down and start anew.

      You won't advocate for that of course because the fact is you don't really care about things being better, you care about pretending to be on the moral high-ground, so vague platitudes about things getting better in the abstract you get from democrats is just enough for you, because you probably endure no economic hardship and politics is just an extension of sports to you.

    • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.one
      ·
      1 year ago

      Is your issue with anarchists or authoritarians? I somehow doubt that anarchists are sending you death threats. Nor do I see anarchists kneecapping the Democrats. Anarchists don't want a state, though many do vote for the moderate right-wing (not "left leaning") Democrats simply because they think it's the right thing to do.

      Your sweeping generalizations and attempts to paint all of us with the same brush betray your own lack of knowledge, but don't worry, I'm sure the planet will last long enough for the Democrats' slow incremental change, and I'm sure my family in border camps are very thankful to be in liberal concentration camps.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Is your issue with anarchists or authoritarians?

        I think you're giving too much credit to "authoritarianism" as a political dimension beyond those weird conservatives who want ersatz father figure heads of state

        • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Apologizing after saying something stupid is a level of grace we rarely see from the smugtrust

          Any objective measure of politics puts them on the right wing. Your only measure is relative. Because you have no ideology whatsoever you have no underpinning with which to judge a political party.

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          The point isn't somehow that Conservatives are left wing, but that Democrats aren't "reformers" either! Most of what they do is "rehabilitate" and I don't mean that with respect to the criminal code.

        • panopticon [comrade/them]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Democrats are right wing because they uphold capitalism and advance imperialism. Conservatives aren't reformers, but neither are Democrats, "sorry."

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        I somehow doubt that anarchists are sending you death threats.

        Nah I believe it a lot of Anarchists are fighty and wouldn't be nearly as indulgent with this absurdity as we are.

    • CyborgMarx [any, any]
      ·
      1 year ago

      they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

      Are you talking about the party that doubled Trump's deportation numbers, expanded oil drilling and fracking and striped the rail unions of their right to strike? I know you're not talking about THAT party, you think we've all been at brunch and hadn't been paying attention like you jackasses?

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      What's the difference between a fascist and an "anarchist" who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

      Mutual Aid: A Theory of Evolution is available on Gutenberg. Go learn something.