Hello users of Hexbear, we wanted to inform you that we are going to be locking the_dunk_tank and dredge_tank communities. We have created two new communities /c/gossip and /c/counterpropaganda to serve a similar but clearly distinct purpose than the dunk/dredge tanks.
Not only is the dunk tank a term that has racist origins, but also many posts there were almost no effort and often times requiring later edits to show how they weren't reactionary, not useful with regard to developing rhetoric and furthering dialectical analysis of that which we dunk upon.
To that end, we wish posts of reactionaries to be placed in !counterpropaganda@hexbear.net along with an accompanying explanation (as simple or complex as desired) with the intent of countering the reactionary propaganda in the post body, as of now comments are not subject to the same rhetorical rigor rule.
For the posts that are not "low-hanging fruit' of notable people we ask that you use !gossip@hexbear.net .
These changes are mainly part of a continued effort to remove the racist and misogynistic elements from our community and grow.
Any moderators of the dunk tank or dredge tank that want to be a mod in the new communities let me know.
Any users with questions or comments please use this post, this change was made at the behest of the entire Hexbear mod and admin team. We will be looking for more moderators in an organized volunteer drive shortly, if you wish to submit an application you may send it to me via hexbear or matrix direct messages.
Use this post as a place for discussion to these changes. We will keep things as they are for 2 weeks and then reflect on the feedback, including this post: https://hexbear.net/post/3858346
As a personal addendum I am sorry if the closing of the tanks these changes removes a beloved space on the site and if you want to suggest a community to replace them you may do so at !commrequest@hexbear.net or submit a mod application to take a more active role in shaping the site.
Sitewide or community changes come from proposals put forth from the mod team, discussed, and voted on by the mod team.
Any users wanting to suggest a community to replace the tanks, may do so at !commrequest@hexbear.net current discussion is here https://hexbear.net/post/3858346 or submit a mod application to take a more active role in shaping the site.
You may also consider using !shitreactionariessay@lemmygrad.ml as a substitute for dunk/dredge tank posts as well
The mod statement can be found here: https://hexbear.net/comment/5613033
Application
What is your Hexbear username? Do you have any preferred pronouns? What are your thoughts on capitalism? What are your thoughts on imperialism? What are your thoughts on trans rights? What are your thoughts on racial justice? What do think about current and previous protests around the world? What are your thoughts on Veganism and Animal Liberation? Do you have any experience with other leftist online communities? What did those experiences teach you? What is your approach to moderation, and how do you work with teams? How do you deal with online drama and people who try to start things for the sake of it? What current comms would you be interested in moderating? Do you have any ideas for community engagement? What is your general time availability? (Time zone, amounts, common browsing times, etc)
c/gossip is a bad and counterintuitive name for the comm. Also it's exclusively for famous people? No other notable content? Who was asking for this?
This is not even close to the reason why I post in dunk_tank. When did we agree that the reason for posts shitting on reactionaries was to "develop rhetoric"??
How do these changes serve that purpose (aside from the dunk tank name, which, fair enough)?
Edit: Thanks to @CARCOSA@hexbear.net for clarifying the announcement post. Still think gossip is a terrible name for the concept of the sub
I agree, but also
Dunking is good rhetoric. It shoud be a necessary practice that you keep as part of your toolbelt. The "dirtbag left" came in response to people being sick of dorks in suits treating bigots with kiddie gloves and acting like everything deserved to be debated. Insisting that everything should be talked out is fed shit. Having a discussion with idiots just elevates them.
The reason republicans pissed their pants about being called "weird" was because it was effective rhetoric rebutting their insane worldview.
Yeah, hadn't thought about it but i agree. Often mockery and clowning is the appropriate way to rebut fascist bs. Don't treat them as a serious speaker, just make fun of them.
Yea treating some dumbshit bigots racist take like it is worthy of a thoughtful and reasoned response is how the whole debate pervert thing came about.
They love it and are just using it as a numbered checklist they can use to disregard your opinion because you weren't polite enough to them.
We used to ban people for being debatebros, now we want to foster it? That's gonna lose me for sure. I hate debatebros and if that's the culture this site wants, then I struggle to see it being very welcoming for ND people in general. Tonepolicing and "developing rhetoric"? Get the fuck outtahere I get enough NTs nitpicking me in my daily life for not structuring an argument in the exact way they want, not gonna want my online community to do the same lol.
Removed by mod
Seems like the already existing most popular comms on the website could have accomplished that pretty easily.
You know, you're right. Having a space where, for once, you can be the smarmy asshole, is good. When you get outside these spaces and into the more reactionary places, that's turned on its head, but when you're talking to normal people, dunking can be an effective way to communicate, and it can make them consider your perspective because of how sharp your retorts are and how confident they sound, which is precisely how the inverse reinforces anti-left sentiment.
When someone is talking about the "homeless problem" and you can confidently say "Yeah, we should just liquidate them all into biomatter I guess, right?" it short-circuits the conversation. If you were to go on some long-winded explanation about the nature of privet property and it's consequences, you open yourself up to debate, and in a group, where you can't spend the time to "look up the facts" you'll just lose every time, and "looking up the facts" makes you look like someone who "can't just let it go".
What I'm saying is, and what you're saying is, The Dredge Tank is the Wet Stone that sharpens the Rhetorical Knife.
That is part of it, but another part of it is that by engaging with something on an intellectual level you are signalling that it is on some level intellectual. Doing that with stupid shit will have adverse effects.
and it's still remembered to this day, precisely because it takes Bennys stupid argument as seriously as it deserves to be taken.
Consider all the people who debate Ben Shapiro fucking up, whereas H. Bomber Guy does a 2 second gag
Oh yeah, I understand. The Dredge Tank offered a space to develop that reflex. If all you have are intellectual responses to dog shit opinions, you'll be stuck in debate lord hell for your whole life. The best part about reading The Dredge Tank was seeing just how funny, sharp, pointed, or rage filled peoples reactions were. The names of those subs, the basketball roots of Dunk Tank specifically, and Dredge (which is just a good word) really drove home how little respect the posted reactionary takes deserved.
God-tier take 👑
Insert that one Sartre quote here
This is exactly what sort of posts !counterpropaganda@hexbear.net is intended for, while not permitting the non-effort screenshot reposting with no context while making a clear space for twitter screenshots of notable people
So counterpropaganda is the dunk tank by any other name and gossip is for making effortposts about elon musk? And the dialectical analysis and rhetorical development occurs everywhere or?
I appreciate you taking the time to engage with a thread that is a bit like an angry beehive. I gotta say it sounds like all you've done is changed the name, but the way you guys are communicating it and the names you've chosen makes it sound like a lot more stuff is going on.
Counterpropaganda would make more sense with a name like the_hog_pen, gossip would make way more sense with a name like counterpropaganda. All the other stuff about rhetoric and dialectics and so on makes it sound more confusing, like as if you're doing a whole lot more.
I understand that, the names were chosen by the moderators interested in running the communities.
That is funny to me
Between this and the splitting of the com in the first place, it seems like the mods and admins just straight up don't like the idea of having a space where we post someone else's bad takes and make fun of them, which is just bizarre and antithetical to the site culture.
There's a contingent of people who wants to separate themselves as much as possible from r/chapotraphouse as they believe that's the best for the growth of the site. I don't really get it, since I go on this site because it reminds me of the subreddit (now with less transphobia and more commies!) not because I want a website to expand its' userbase.
But.../r/chapotraphouse grew all the time and Hexbear doesn't? Not that I think hexbear needs to grow so much, because a ton of online communities get worse when a ton of people join, but if growth was what they wanted then they needed to make it more like /r/chapotraphouse.
Yeah as I said I don't get it. I don't know if they want growth or they want the website to be something else, but either way... why go on a website that seeks to emulate vibes from the chapotraphouse subreddit, if that's not what you want?
Little followup: I think these comments from a dunk tank mod might help give you a bit of a better idea of what the answers to your questions are