Hello users of Hexbear, we wanted to inform you that we are going to be locking the_dunk_tank and dredge_tank communities. We have created two new communities /c/gossip and /c/counterpropaganda to serve a similar but clearly distinct purpose than the dunk/dredge tanks.

Not only is the dunk tank a term that has racist origins, but also many posts there were almost no effort and often times requiring later edits to show how they weren't reactionary, not useful with regard to developing rhetoric and furthering dialectical analysis of that which we dunk upon.

To that end, we wish posts of reactionaries to be placed in !counterpropaganda@hexbear.net along with an accompanying explanation (as simple or complex as desired) with the intent of countering the reactionary propaganda in the post body, as of now comments are not subject to the same rhetorical rigor rule.

For the posts that are not "low-hanging fruit' of notable people we ask that you use !gossip@hexbear.net .

These changes are mainly part of a continued effort to remove the racist and misogynistic elements from our community and grow.

Any moderators of the dunk tank or dredge tank that want to be a mod in the new communities let me know.

Any users with questions or comments please use this post, this change was made at the behest of the entire Hexbear mod and admin team. We will be looking for more moderators in an organized volunteer drive shortly, if you wish to submit an application you may send it to me via hexbear or matrix direct messages.

Use this post as a place for discussion to these changes. We will keep things as they are for 2 weeks and then reflect on the feedback, including this post: https://hexbear.net/post/3858346

As a personal addendum I am sorry if the closing of the tanks these changes removes a beloved space on the site and if you want to suggest a community to replace them you may do so at !commrequest@hexbear.net or submit a mod application to take a more active role in shaping the site.

Sitewide or community changes come from proposals put forth from the mod team, discussed, and voted on by the mod team.

Any users wanting to suggest a community to replace the tanks, may do so at !commrequest@hexbear.net current discussion is here https://hexbear.net/post/3858346 or submit a mod application to take a more active role in shaping the site.

You may also consider using !shitreactionariessay@lemmygrad.ml as a substitute for dunk/dredge tank posts as well

The mod statement can be found here: https://hexbear.net/comment/5613033

Application

What is your Hexbear username? Do you have any preferred pronouns? What are your thoughts on capitalism? What are your thoughts on imperialism? What are your thoughts on trans rights? What are your thoughts on racial justice? What do think about current and previous protests around the world? What are your thoughts on Veganism and Animal Liberation? Do you have any experience with other leftist online communities? What did those experiences teach you? What is your approach to moderation, and how do you work with teams? How do you deal with online drama and people who try to start things for the sake of it? What current comms would you be interested in moderating? Do you have any ideas for community engagement? What is your general time availability? (Time zone, amounts, common browsing times, etc)

  • PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS [he/him, they/them]
    ·
    17 days ago

    I'm sorry, this is fucked. So really this is intended as a major intervention into site culture by the mod team in order to make the site less "white" and "cis"? By removing dunks? I'm sorry, some of you are absolutely huffing your own farts, and the total lack of transparency in rolling this out is very telling. It was completely unclear how removing these comms was going to make the site less chauvenistic, and now that I've finally heard the actual rationale, I'm floored.

    Given the tank comms were some of the most active areas of the site and a major part of its culture from the beginning, it's clear that a significant portion of mod team regards the userbase here as undesirable and inimicable to the kind of site that they want this to be. You (collectively, not CARCOSA specifically) could come not even come to us straight with the reasoning for this and have tried to conceal the reasoning behind it.

    As someone who has posted a lot in the tank comms, I'll just say it's nice to know how I'm regarded by the mod team. Not as a long-time valued member of the community, but a toxic Reddit debate bro that's shitting up your site. Good to know where I stand.

    I initially regarded this as a poorly thought out decision that needed to be discussed in a comradely fashion. Now I see it as the opening salvo from an anonymous clique of moderators who would like to remake Hexbear in their image regardless of what anyone else thinks

    This should be a separate post rather than being buried in here if you're serious about wanting community input on changing the whole fucking character of the community. And the mods who drafted it should consider putting their names on it if they're not too cowardly to say this shit to my face

    Edit: They are, in fact, too cowardly

    • booty [he/him]
      ·
      17 days ago

      it's clear that a significant portion of mod team regards the userbase here as undesirable and inimicable to the kind of site that they want this to be. You (collectively, not CARCOSA specifically) could come not even come to us straight with the reasoning for this and have tried to conceal the reasoning behind it.

      I'd also like to point out that any time some of us actually saw through this shit, we were harassed and even banned for pointing it out. I received my first ever comm ban for pointing out how the mods were unwilling to openly and honestly engage with questions about the motivations and intentions behind the implementation of the dunk tank's "rule 8." I was then harassed by a prolific mod of many comms and by regular users for it for several days. To their credit, Carcosa reversed the comm ban as soon as I pointed it out to them, but that nonsense comm ban was later used as one justification for a site temp ban. The moderator who harassed me is still a prolific poster because they're of course good friends with the mods.

      This site has long had a big, big problem with the same thing most internet forums have a problem with at some point. The kinds of people who desire to be the moderator of an internet forum are also the biggest losers you can imagine, and they form disgusting little toxic cliques and do shit like this all day.

      • combat_doomerism [he/him]
        ·
        17 days ago

        I have noticed the same thing about some posters receiving way more leniency than others (inexcusable how long it took someone like melina to get perma'd as the biggest example of the top of my head) but:

        the kinds of people who desire to be the moderator of an internet forum are also the biggest losers you can imagine, and they form disgusting little toxic cliques and do shit like this all day.

        most people are way too lenient with people they're friends/friendly with, I dont think it has to do with wanting/being a mod really.

      • bortsampson [he/him, any]
        ·
        17 days ago

        I lurked for a few (omg a few!) years on hexbear but the dunktank eventually got me to make an account. Oddly enough it was one of those random deep comment threads that went off into theory that convinced me. In the past few months I noticed a progressively more vocal group of wreckers posting. They seemed to have the mods blessing. The manufacturing of drama, accusations, hostility, projection, and demand for obedience has only gotten worse. It's a bit cult-like. I've encountered this situation in other leftist orgs and it usually meant a split was incoming. I've seen Hexbear shake ups but the mods typically sorted the drama out. This is different and feels deeply intolerant. I'm glad you, Regon, and PMYF are saying what a lot of people have been thinking but were afraid to say for fear of being banned.

    • REgon [they/them]
      ·
      17 days ago

      Incredible to see how some people who have modded the site for a few months think they get to decide the entire frame of the culture. There's a reason I didn't apply to any of the mod-drives, and it's because I didn't feel for the entire site culture. The lack of introspection from this group is incredible. Literally doing the "Am I out of touch? No it's the users who are wrong" simpsons meme

      • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]
        ·
        17 days ago

        Perhaps this is tangential to your point, but I never understood why modship is opened to anyone and not people who are in good standing and have been here for at least a year. This is also why I didn't like when Pluto was suddenly mod of like 7 comms after only spending a week here (and I think they came here after getting banned from lemmygrad).

        • FALGSConaut [comrade/them]
          ·
          17 days ago

          NGL I haven't paid attention to any of the mod drives or the process of becoming one so my bad if I'm wrong but it would make more sense if mods were voted on by users that have been here for a certain amount of time. It doesn't make sense to me if someone can basically just pop up and become a mod

          • somename [she/her]
            ·
            17 days ago

            I just kind of automatically ignore mod app posts because I’m not like a power user, and the idea of even asking for a mod role seems presumptuous

            • FALGSConaut [comrade/them]
              ·
              17 days ago

              Yea, it's tricky because to me those who really want to be a mod (anywhere, not just hexbear) probably shouldn't be a mod.

              dennis Maybe we need a civic duty style mod team where we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer mod for the week.

              • TheLastHero [none/use name]
                ·
                17 days ago

                Active user sortition for moderator roles would low key be as uniquely based as our emotes

                • FALGSConaut [comrade/them]
                  ·
                  17 days ago

                  It's like Marx said

                  In communist websites, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of posting but each can become accomplished in any comm they wish, society regulates the general posts and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to shitpost in the morning, mod in the afternoon, slurp up slop in the evening, effortpost after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming shitposter, mod, treathog or effortposter.

        • REgon [they/them]
          ·
          17 days ago

          I mean they need mods, so I understand it from that point of view, but I don't understand this whole anonymous thing going on. There's a lot of things in place that facilitate this loser set of mods behaving like losers. Wish we could see who removed what for example.

      • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
        ·
        18 days ago

        there are a couple genderqueer people posting against it as well but being genderqueer does not prevent being wrong)

        You are all up and down these threads doing the lib thing of “possessing marginalized identity means you have an inherently higher developed take on things/sense of morality not having one means you dont” right up until one of us disagrees and now all of a sudden being queer doesnt let us in the special insight club

        if you have genuinely never seen the toxicity of these spaces than you should probably shut the fuck up

        lol that’s kind of toxic maybe we can rephrase that

        dunk culture on trans and vegan comms is good. i just don't like the main comm because the things they dunk on is always inadvertently not what they claim to be

        Setting aside the obv “it’s ok when I do it” of this I do genuinely feel like to some extent you’ve read some things into some of these that may not be there. I’m sure there’s been instances where people have dunked in covert way “on not what they claim to be” but I just cannot see it as such a widespread issue it warranted more than an extra rule and a name change

          • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
            ·
            18 days ago

            You brought that energy here from the rip especially with the “oh no adminerinoes “ nonsense and everything else

            Frankly I think you’ve demonstrated a lot of hypocrisy and have a pretty lib and overly simplistic view of idpol but fwiw wrt to the compromise post you made I think it’s perfectly reasonable, if kind of the unstated situation between dunk and dredge already.

          • imogen_underscore [it/its, she/her]
            ·
            18 days ago

            sorry but this comes across as projection because you are the one acting hostile. this is meaningless internet drama and if it is actually making you worked up i urge logging out for a while.

          • REgon [they/them]
            ·
            17 days ago

            OH NO SOMEBODY RESPONDED IN KIND INSTEAD OF GIVING YOU UNEARNED POLITENESS! HOW SAD FOR YOU

      • REgon [they/them]
        ·
        17 days ago

        Wow how wonderfully non-toxic. Also great to see how against dunking you are.

        You and I went thru this whole discussion, but now you're gonna redo it from the get go because you're still sore about it?
        Fantastic example of someone being welcoming or whatever the fuck the idea is supposed to be.

        privileged group that's able to just coast on it for free validation

        Seems to be describing you, buddy, since you're the person who gets away with making baseless accusations and then cry foul when you're called out for it.

        doubly so if you're cis

        Their pronouns are literally right there you fuck.

        So many non-cis users are also against this, but you are doing the liberal bs trick of hiding your shitty opinion behind a rhetorical shield of an imaginary queer person to make it acceptable somehow. Don't use queer people as your shield, stand by your dumbass dipshit opinions yourself, asshole.

        Do some self-crit

      • combat_brandonism [they/them]
        ·
        17 days ago

        doubly so if you're cis, which i cannot assume of you specifically

        you should catch a ban for the transphobia of this reply alone. pronouns are mandatory here for a reason

      • HelluvaBottomCarter [comrade/them]
        ·
        18 days ago

        I've seen toxicity on places like reddit because reddit is a place where you're not allowed to draw a connection between the state of the world and capitalism. You are allowed to blame it on individuals being too stupid or too poor. I've also seen the biggest dunk cultures in the trans and vegan communities here. And you know what? It's good. Being poor or disenfranchised doesn't give you license to be a bigot or a murderer. In fact, this is like the vegan struggle session where we were told that veganism for rich white people who make fun of poor indigenous peoples for basic survival.

        The toxicity thing doesn't happen when people correctly draw conclusions that there is an organizational problem with society and while it's not the fault of individual randos, they sure as shit don't get to exist in a vacuum at the expense of vulnerable people.