“Well what’s the alternative?”
tell them the alternative
“Well, everyone thinks their political opinion is the correct one, what gives you the right to say yours is correct”
passionately appeal to their human empathy and tell them why socialism is indeed correct
“Wow stop being so aggressive, you’re trying to force your beliefs on me, this is why people don’t like talking about politics”
sooner or later politics will become relevant to your life, capitalism is killing our species, do you not want to maybe do something about that...?
“Well if we’re all doomed anyway what’s the point, might as well just be blissfully ignorant”
Fucking end my life. This is almost verbatim a conversation I just had. This is a person who came from a working family who has worked and rented their whole life. Convo started when I called landlords parasites and tried to explain why, lol. How are we meant to convince a critical mass of these people to leave their false consciousness behind before capitalism fucking kills us all :doomer:
Oh believe me I tried all that too. “Why shouldn’t they be allowed to do that, they had to work to afford the house in the first place”
😑🔫
That's not how you turn people communist. The first thing you gotta do is look at their level of wealth. If that person is well-off, you may as well try to climb the Everest while blind. If that person isn't well-off, then your work begins. You need to figure out what this person is into in terms of issues : environment, poverty, anti-racism, anti-interventionism, etc.... That kind of things. When you choose an angle from which to attack, you gotta fetch some pretty "cool bug facts", and show them. If it's a guy living paycheck to paycheck who is attracted towards populist policies, then show him his idols are linked with what he hates (media-billionaire ties for example). If it's a middle class college student who's into reformism, then show him the corruption and how deep the lobbies rabbithole goes.
Also, I'll say this : Krobuttkin is right here. You can never, NEVER appeal to empathy from those who are well-off. Unless you have a deep, personal connection to them, you simply will not convince them. Hell, you might not convince them even with a personal connection. The guy here doesn't seem to have a problem with rent, or at least not enough to care, so attacking through the poverty angle will not work. If you can't find anything else to challenge the ideals of said relative on, then you may as well wait a little bit longer or dig some more. Or move on, up to you.
But damn, you're right about the doomer vibes, for real. People are fucking stupid, and can't fucking help it until they're directly affected by capitalism.
Convo started when I called landlords parasites
That was your big mistake. Common language on the left is alienating to "normies". You gotta hide your power level. Start real slow and branch from there.
I recently didn’t hide my power level and suggested that what we’re taught about the DPRK probably isn’t 100% accurate, and oh boy, did I get major backlash. 😂 Like, I don’t know why it’s so controversial? No one I know has ever been there. How can you claim to know anything about a country you haven’t been to?
suggested that what we’re taught about the DPRK probably isn’t 100% accurate, and oh boy, did I get major backlash. 😂
(angry NPC) "you're evil!!!"
You people have to learn better how to talk with others about this.
Everybody has a wedge issue you can use to break through, you just have to press it RELENTLESSLY.
It's simple:
- Identify this issue with who you're speaking to.
- sympathize with them, without yet bringing up communism,
- you have to let them know that nothing is broken, this is a system working as it's intended to
- guide them through the contradictions, it only works if their own reasoning leads them there.
- you dont bring it up until you sense that you've reached a bottom in the conversation. At some point they have to wonder what kind of system allows people to live in either squalor, or poor health, poverty, etc.
these people are blissfully aware of the failing of capitalism, but look away, you have to get them to stop looking away. A better world is possible.
also: be patient, this shit takes time. People don't change their minds unless they think they came to that conclusion on their own.
most people see getting “mad” or “emotional” as a bad thing, regardless of the context
Liberals are like dogs; they understand tone but not content.
Very true; tone is the first thing we notice. If someone is yelling, it instinctively draws your attention. But (ideally) after a couple seconds your human intelligence kicks in to determine whether the tone is justified. The problem with liberals is that they believe that harsh tone is never justified, because muh civility.
Nah, I think it's something cultural. In my home country the norm is to speak loud and have emotion to a point where to a westerner a passionate conversation about some trivial stuff can sound like an angry shouting match or an argument...
Tbh I’m getting tired of trying to convince “normies” to become communists or at least less fuckin liberal and a tad bit more radical. Pretty much everyone I know / work with knows my politics. Some people are easier than others but not really. Idk, at this point I feel like I just need to join a party and meet people who are already communists, cause I haven’t convinced a single person to be a communist. Be less liberal and more critical of the state of things? Sure. But go all the way and become a communist? Maybe just one person. And my talking points are solid, it’s just hard to get through to people after a life of propaganda I guess.
I think meeting more communists would help me be more motivated. Just hate the idea of using my day off to travel half hour/ hour to go to a party meeting instead of relaxing. But I guess that’s liberal of me lol. Can’t be tired of trying to convince the masses of our way of thinking and all that..
I feel like I just need to join a party and meet people who are already communists
Yes, you should. We can only achieve change together, not as atomised individuals.
https://frso.org/
https://www.pslweb.org/
https://www.socialistalternative.org/
https://classunity.org/
I’m learning it’s about the basics. Organize, Feed/House people, protest. Whenever I do any of those I feel like there’s some purpose to my beliefs.
really, socialism is only built from suffering, technological progress, strong institutions, and individual predispositions. thats it. its almost impossible to convince people until they get thrown into the lion's pit. the only people willing to go into a revolution are those that no longer have anything to lose.
Conversations should be more about planting seeds more so than THIS IS MY IDEOLOGY AND HERE IS WHY YOURE WRONG.
I think in that case you need to move on people won’t necessarily see through propaganda until it affects them personally. They are living a comfortable or at least comfortable enough life that they don’t really see the need to change things. Or if they do they feel it’s impossible. People need to be open to talk about it if someone isn’t they probably won’t listen.
anyone who ever goes into points like "well how could things be different?" and "wow this is why politics is bad, just stop caring about stuff like me!" are just honestly worthless to talk to at all, these sorts of people are actively against thinking about anything and so conflict averse they do not find doing so to be valuable and they will respect you less for actually caring about anything because it makes them uncomfortable.
“Well, everyone thinks their political opinion is the correct one, what gives you the right to say yours is correct”
I remember this futurama meme where the kind lizard person is watching some old TV show and asks, "why does the larger class not simply eat the smaller one?"
I like to think, whether or not it's a moral good, communism is inevitable because our class interests are antithetical and there are more of us than there are of them. It's socialism or barbarism. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer to avoid ecological collapse, homelessness, disease, and aggressive cops everywhere.
Also, what's blissful about working a shitty job until you roll over?
the cognitive dissonance is really strong... "normies" who are working people have invested a huge amount into believing the promises of capitalism and the excuses provided for why they always end up short. Lots of people will resist any explanation that says they've been lied to or taken advantage of because it makes them feel like a fool, and they'd rather continue to believe. you can't get someone to upend their whole belief system based on one conversation... best you can do is to introduce ideas gradually and let them come to their own conclusions.
